25 Replies Latest reply on Jul 18, 2015 12:04 PM by johnrellis

    How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)

    Dr-Glenn

      I have a large number of photos managed by ACDSee Pro. I want to switch to Lightroom. Image ratings in ACDSee are stored in embedded XMP in a field named "Rating"; it contains values from 1 to 5.

      So if I abandon ACDSee, I will not lose the ratings I have applied to tens of thousands of photos - they are already embedded in my photos.

      But of course I want to take the Rating field from XMP and copy it to the equivalent in Lightroom.

       

      Can someone advise me if Lightroom can do that?

      Or tell me the field name and equivalent values (1 to 5) that are used by Lightroom? Because if Lightroom can't do the copy/import, than I can use EXIFtool (I'm a Windows user).

      One more question: ratings maintained by Lightroom are also the same as ratings created within Photoshop Elements?

       

      If I can get my ratings into Lightroom, I can abandon the POS that is ACDSee Pro.

       

      Thanks for your help.

        • 1. Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
          dj_paige Level 9

          I have never used ACDSee Pro, but I would imagine that your metadata will be read by Lightroom on Import.

           

          If not, select a photo(s) in the Lightroom Library Module, then Metadata->Read Metadata from Files.

           

          One more question: ratings maintained by Lightroom are also the same as ratings created within Photoshop Elements?

          I don't understand the question. Do you mean, can ratings assigned in PSE be transferred to Lightroom?

          • 2. Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
            Dr-Glenn Level 1

            Do you mean, can ratings assigned in PSE be transferred to Lightroom?

             

            Yes, that's kind of what I mean. I've never used Lightroom and I do have PSE, but have never tried to apply a rating to a photo. So what I mean is "if I apply a rating to a photo in PSE, does Lightroom see that same rating"? It would actually be kind of crazy if two Adobe products didn't use the same field for storing ratings.

            • 3. Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
              dj_paige Level 9

              Well, I must say that your explanation doesn't really clear this up for me.

               

              So, to address the words you wrote literally ... "if I apply a rating to a photo in PSE, does Lightroom see that same rating"?

               

              The answer is NO, anything you do in PSE is not seen by Lightroom, and vice versa. The information is stored in a database, and PSE and LR use different databases, which do not communicate with each other.

               

              You can, however, manually transfer some information between programs, but transfer is only "kind of" what you mean, so I'm still not sure what you mean, and I'll leave it at that.

              • 4. Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                areohbee Level 5

                Theoretically/ideally, ratings in xmp would be ratings in xmp, regardless of which app is reading and writing, but there is no guarantee of interoperability (the world of image metadata is a bit-of-a mess..).

                 

                So, why don't you find out (test it), then let us know?

                 

                Note: if ratings from ACDSee are not carrying over to Lightroom, please post a sample image file that includes ACDSee xmp, so others can compare to what is expected by Lr.

                • 5. Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                  Dr-Glenn Level 1

                  OK, I'll check out a trial version of Lightroom.

                  ACDSee also uses it's own database. But it allows you to embed database info into image file - it adds this info to XMP, either embedded in file or as sidecar. With JPEG it seems to always be embedded. So "rating" is not any standard IPTC field that I know of, but since it is put into XMP, I have hope that I will be able to somehow get this value into the Lightroom equivalent.

                  • 6. Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                    areohbee Level 5

                    dr-glenn wrote:

                     

                    I have hope that I will be able to somehow get this value into the Lightroom equivalent.

                    You most certainly could with the help of a plugin or something, but of course it would be nicer if Lr would read it natively.

                     

                    PS - seems strange to me that rating is not part of IPTC standard - oh well, maybe in a decade or two..

                     

                    ~R.

                    • 7. Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                      johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                      The XMP standard defines Rating as a core property.  (There are many fields defined by the XMP standard that aren't defined by the IPTC standard.)

                      • 8. Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                        johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                        A Google search revels that ACDSee writes its ratings into XMP:Rating: ACDSee Pro 4 Build 237 - Release Notes - Support - ACD Systems.

                        • 9. Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                          johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                          ...and LR reads and writes XMP:Rating.

                          • 10. Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                            Dr-Glenn Level 1

                            John - that is terrific information, thank you so much! Once I can test, I'll be sure to give you the "correct answer" credit. I didn't know that XMP itself contains some standard fields.

                            • 11. Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                              Dr-Glenn Level 1

                              I installed Lightroom and yes indeed, it reads the ratings that I created with ACDSee. This is great news. I will be able to ditch ACDSee if I decide that I prefer Lightroom.

                               

                              With ACDSee, I inverted the ratings: 1 is best, 5 is worst. Why did I do this? Because ACDSee used to associate each number with a color, and they assigned 'positive' colors (blue, green) to numbers 1 and 2, and 'negative' color (red) to number 5. Why? My guess is that they didn't understand the intent of the numbers. A few product revs back, they removed the color association entirely - now you can assign colors to photos, but those colors no longer signify a rating, they merely signify a color. So I might see if I can use EXIFtool to invert all of my assigned ratings.

                              • 12. Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                                Dr-Glenn Level 1

                                My question has been answered. Can I mark John Ellis' answer as correct? Can I close this topic?

                                • 13. Re: Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                                  johnrellis Most Valuable Participant
                                  So I might see if I can use EXIFtool to invert all of my assigned ratings.

                                  This method might be easier:

                                   

                                  - Use the Library filter bar to identify all photos with exactly 1 star:

                                  Untitled.png

                                  - Select all those photos and put them in a collection named "1 star".

                                  - Repeat for 2 through 5 stars.

                                  - Now go to each collection in turn, select all the photos, and invert the star rating.

                                  • 14. Re: Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                                    Dr-Glenn Level 1

                                    More than 1/2 year later, still have not modified all my star ratings using technique as johnrellis suggested.

                                    One more question before I do it. I will have 5 collections: 1 to 5 star photos. When I change all the one star photos to 5 star, do they remain in the 1 star collection, or do they automatically move over to the 5 star collection? It would be bad if they moved! I assume there is some way to make a collection "static"?

                                    • 15. Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                                      dj_paige Level 9

                                      Lightroom has two types of collections: Smart collections and "regular" (or static) collections. Which are you using?

                                       

                                      If you are using static collections, then when a photo that is in the 1 star collection is assigned to the 5 star collection, now they are in both collections.

                                       

                                      If you are using smart collections, then a photo can be in only one of those 5 collections at any one time.

                                      • 16. Re: Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                                        Dr-Glenn Level 1

                                        I haven't yet used either style of collection for this problem of inverting star ratings.

                                        It seems that smart collection would be bad: as soon as I change all 1-star to have 5-stars, they automatically move to the 5-star smart collection - which already contains 5-star that I wanted to change to 1-star.

                                        So I should use regular, static collections. Now I just need to get busy and learn how to do that. Can I copy a smart collection to a static collection?

                                        • 17. Re: Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                                          dj_paige Level 9

                                          Can I copy a smart collection to a static collection?

                                          Not directly. You could copy all the photos from one into the other.

                                           

                                          I think you might want a collection named New 5-star images and Old 5-star images and so on, so they don't get confused, and so the process is reversible if mistakes happen.

                                          • 18. Re: Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                                            Dr-Glenn Level 1

                                            Thanks! I made 5 regular (static) collections for each of the star ratings.

                                            Then I selected the 1-star collection (which should have been 5-star), selected all photos in collection, and changed to 5-star.

                                            Just to be sure that it was written to the actual JPEG (with embedded XMP), I used exiftool. To my surprise I saw that each XMP section had two Rating fields: one had value of 1 the other was 5!

                                            Well, this isn't good.

                                            Then I looked at 3-star files in exiftool (where I hadn't changed the rating) and also saw two Rating fields - each with value=3.

                                            So sometime in the past this occurred. Maybe ACDSee (my previous software) or maybe it happened during LR import. I do have some newer photos that have never been touched by ACDSee and indeed, they only have one rating value.

                                             

                                            So how to clean up this mess?

                                            My thought is that I use exiftool to remove Rating from all my JPEG. Will it remove both values?

                                            Then, because I still have the jpegs in LR static collections, I can now re-apply ratings.

                                             

                                            Does this sound good?

                                            • 19. Re: Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                                              johnrellis Most Valuable Participant
                                              Just to be sure that it was written to the actual JPEG (with embedded XMP), I used exiftool. To my surprise I saw that each XMP section had two Rating fields: one had value of 1 the other was 5!

                                              Upload one of the pics to Dropbox and post its link here, so we can take a look at it in detail.

                                               

                                              As long as you have your static collections in your LR catalog, we'll be able to get this eventually sorted out.

                                              • 20. Re: Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                                                Dr-Glenn Level 1

                                                OK, here is one: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xjvxipf4ycky60k/Bonavista_Aerial-0013.jpg?dl=0

                                                This photo was originally rated 1-star in ACDSee, years ago.

                                                Yesterday I then changed the rating to 5 star in Lightroom. LR is even so nice as to add a MetadataDate field.

                                                It is allowed to have multiple same-named element tags in XML, but I doubt that the XMP schema allows more than one element for "Rating".

                                                 

                                                BTW, you guys are terrific. Especially John R Ellis and DL Paige. Is this your job?

                                                • 21. Re: Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                                                  johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                                                  If you invoke Exiftool with

                                                   

                                                  exiftool -a -G1 file.jpg
                                                  

                                                   

                                                  you'll see that there two different rating fields stored in different XMP "schema":

                                                   

                                                  [XMP-acdsee] Rating : 1
                                                  [XMP-xmp]    Rating : 5
                                                  

                                                   

                                                  The "xmp" schema is the industry standard, and the "acdsee" schema is proprietary to ACDSee.  Any standards-conforming program will pay attention to XMP-xmp:Rating and ignore XMP-acdsee:Rating.  (I've appended the raw XMP below.)

                                                   

                                                  LR ignores  XMP-acdsee:Rating.  I'm guessing that ACDSee wrote both fields (XMP-acdsee and XMP-xmp) to the pic, which is why LR was able to read the ratings you set in ACDSee.

                                                   

                                                  I don't think there's any harm in leaving XMP-acdsee:rating in your files, and it could help as a historical audit trail.  But if you really wanted to get rid those fields, you could do:

                                                   

                                                  exiftool -xmp-acdsee:rating= file.jpg
                                                  

                                                   

                                                  Here's the raw XMP:

                                                  <x:xmpmeta xmlns:x="adobe:ns:meta/" x:xmptk="Adobe XMP Core 5.5-c002 1.148022, 2012/07/15-18:06:45        "> 
                                                      <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"> 
                                                          <rdf:Description rdf:about="" 
                                                              xmlns:acdsee="http://ns.acdsee.com/iptc/1.0/" 
                                                              xmlns:xmp="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/" 
                                                              xmlns:photoshop="http://ns.adobe.com/photoshop/1.0/" 
                                                              xmlns:xmpMM="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/mm/" 
                                                              xmlns:stEvt="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/sType/ResourceEvent#" 
                                                              xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" 
                                                              xmlns:crs="http://ns.adobe.com/camera-raw-settings/1.0/" 
                                                              acdsee:caption="" 
                                                              acdsee:datetime="2004-06-29T13:20:46.000" 
                                                              acdsee:author="" 
                                                              acdsee:rating="1" 
                                                              acdsee:notes="" 
                                                              acdsee:tagged="False" 
                                                              acdsee:categories="" 
                                                              xmp:Rating="5" 
                                                              xmp:CreatorTool="1.00" 
                                                              xmp:ModifyDate="2004-06-29T13:20:46" 
                                                              xmp:CreateDate="2004-06-29T13:20:46" 
                                                              xmp:MetadataDate="2015-07-17T22:20:35-07:00" 
                                                              photoshop:DateCreated="2004-06-29T13:20:46" 
                                                              xmpMM:DocumentID="7F8FBA80E11F995352DC8FCEA9F20F00" 
                                                              xmpMM:OriginalDocumentID="7F8FBA80E11F995352DC8FCEA9F20F00" 
                                                              xmpMM:InstanceID="xmp.iid:22072aea-6ded-2f44-b34e-a16e36fc82d3" 
                                                              dc:format="image/jpeg" 
                                                              crs:RawFileName="Bonavista_Aerial-0013.jpg"> 
                                                              <xmpMM:History> 
                                                                  <rdf:Seq> 
                                                                      <rdf:li 
                                                                          stEvt:action="saved" 
                                                                          stEvt:instanceID="xmp.iid:22072aea-6ded-2f44-b34e-a16e36fc82d3" 
                                                                          stEvt:when="2015-07-17T22:20:35-07:00" 
                                                                          stEvt:softwareAgent="Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.7 (Windows)" 
                                                                          stEvt:changed="/metadata"/> 
                                                                  </rdf:Seq> 
                                                              </xmpMM:History> 
                                                          </rdf:Description> 
                                                      </rdf:RDF> 
                                                  </x:xmpmeta> 
                                                   
                                                  
                                                  • 22. Re: Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                                                    johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                                                    If you invoke Exiftool with

                                                     

                                                    exiftool -a -G1 file.jpg

                                                     

                                                    you'll see that there two different rating fields stored in different XMP "schema":

                                                     

                                                    [XMP-acdsee] Rating : 1

                                                    [XMP-xmp] Rating : 5

                                                     

                                                    The "xmp" schema is the industry standard, and the "acdsee" schema is proprietary to ACDSee.  Any standards-conforming program will pay attention to XMP-xmp:Rating and ignore XMP-acdsee:Rating.

                                                     

                                                    LR ignores  XMP-acdsee:Rating.  I'm guessing that ACDSee wrote both fields (XMP-acdsee and XMP-xmp) to the pic, which is why LR was able to read the ratings you set in ACDSee.

                                                     

                                                    I don't think there's any harm in leaving XMP-acdsee:rating in your files, and it could help as a historical audit trail.  But if you really wanted to get rid those fields, you could do:

                                                     

                                                    exiftool -xmp-acdsee:rating= file.jpg

                                                    • 23. Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                                                      johnrellis Most Valuable Participant
                                                      Is this your job?

                                                      I can't speak for dj_paige, but I'm just a metadata nerd.

                                                      • 24. Re: Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                                                        Dr-Glenn Level 1

                                                        This thread on the exiftool forum is a goldmine: How to debug metadata problem

                                                        Using "exiftool -v <jpeg file>", I see things that are probably wrong - two JPEG APP1 sections in the file. That exiftool thread gives one possible way to repair a file (just batch it to repair all):

                                                        1) extract XMP to a separate file: exiftool -o a.xmp image.jpg

                                                         

                                                        2) erase XMP from image: exiftool -xmp= image.jpg

                                                         

                                                        3) add back XMP: exiftool "-xmp<=a.xmp" image.jpg

                                                         

                                                        It is amusing to see that Phil, the creator of exiftool, is tagged as "newbie" in the forum!

                                                        • 25. Re: Re: How to import data from XMP into Lightroom (from ACDSee)
                                                          johnrellis Most Valuable Participant
                                                          Using "exiftool -v <jpeg file>", I see things that are probably wrong - two JPEG APP1 sections in the file.

                                                          It's normal to have two or more APP1 segments in a JPEG.  One segment stores EXIF information and one or more segments store XMP information.  To see an example, import a virgin pic into LR, add a caption, and do Metadata > Save Metadata To File.  Then examine it with Exiftool.