4 Replies Latest reply on Oct 23, 2014 10:19 AM by Fellow72

    Vram 6GB vs 3GB with 4k and beyond in mind?

    Fellow72 Level 1

      Hey guys, I had a question about gpu vram.

       

      The tweakers page suggests that my rig would need a minimum of 4GB of ram for 4k footage. Based on research, GTX 780ti seems to be the best card to get for it's price based on the cuda cores, which will help significantly with rendering and live editing. The tweakers page also suggests that the 780ti is the best card to get. However, the 780ti is only 3GB of vram which the tweakers page says is only good for 1K-3K. So would it actually make more sense to go for the 780 6GB? Will the rendering be better? Is the 780ti 3GB enough to render 4k footage easily? The best of both worlds would be a 780ti 6GB which I have no idea if its coming out, nor do i have the time to wait; And then there is the Titan black which is basically the 780ti 6GB but super expensive.

       

      Also, since upgrading from the Intel i7 960, I've noticed that the export times weren't cut significantly. Is getting a more powerful processor really the only way to decrease export times? I export to H.264, Vimeo HD preset, for our broadcasts since the compression ratio to video quality is nice, and we upload to vimeo (which converts everything to h.264 ayways) for the TV stations to download.

       

      I edit with cs5.5 and am slowly transitioning over to cs6.

       

      CPU i7 4930K @ 4.3 - 4.5 GHz

      Motherboard: Rampage IV Extreme

      Ram: 32GB

      Video Card: Radeon 6790 (bottleneck)

      PSU: Seasonic 1050w Gold

      HDD: Samsung Evo 500GB

      Other Hard drives amount to 7TBs in total, Unraided

      Windows 7. 64 bit

        • 1. Re: Vram 6GB vs 3GB with 4k and beyond in mind?
          JFPhoton Level 3

          ....WHERE do I BEGIN ?????    Firstly, recent versions of PPro  CC 2014 contain massive improvements for handling 4K.....as compared to any earlier version. Why would you want to use 5.5 or 6....that's like wanting to mow a one acre lawn with a REEL TYPE PUSH mower, when a 20 horsepower lawn tractor is available !!!

           

          Next....DITCH the USELESS Radeon card.....go NVidia,or, GO HOME !! The new 980 will have 4GB and even higher variants,PLUS HDMI 2.0....2 GPUS CAN speed up SOME types of export....like "DVD export"....I dont know which other types it may,or, may NOT help..

           

          Third.....the drive system needs to be on par with the rest of your system......ESP. if planning on handling 4K. As Eric here on the forum has recommended, TWO quality SATA III SSDs... like the Crucial M550 series...can be placed together in a RAID 0 to provide the necessary high speed demanded by 4K,WITHOUT having to invest in a costly controller card and conventional RAID setup using many HDDs. Use the mechanical HHDs as necessary backup and for archiving....but, NOT as the "working " drives.

           

          The EVO has issues......it does NOT have the same controller as the Samsung 850 Pro series SSDs. This means its write speeds and "steady state"...esp. with "incompressible data" will be FAR below the 850 Pro.

           

          A good starting point would be a Crucial M550 SSD for OS, programs, and Windows page file ONLY...THEN, the 2 Crucial M550s in onboard RAID 0 for project files, media,previews, and all cache files

          • 2. Re: Vram 6GB vs 3GB with 4k and beyond in mind?
            Fellow72 Level 1

            Thanks for the response JFPhoton, appreciate it.

             

            I see what you are saying. The graphics card switch was definitely a no brainer. Originally, I never built this rig, so when I saw that we had a Radeon I was surprised and also disappointed. I've made the recent upgrades so far, and so far so good. Will the 980 or even the 970 deliver better rendering results than the 780ti even though they have less Cuda cores? I wanted to get the 980 but all of them have been out of stock in my area for some time. That's why I've been looking at the 780ti since they are apparently the next best thing, and are a lot cheaper now.

             

            Raiding the drives is definitely on my to do list, and the SATA III SSD suggestion is great. I will definitely do that when a little more expendable cash comes in. I've been planning on raiding my regular storage drives, which are all 7400 RPM, but from what I understood from the tweakers page, faster hard drive speeds will only decrease the render times. A strong GPU would be good enough to cut rendering to reasonable times based on what i've seen from GPU acceleration.

             

            Correct me if I'm wrong, but exporting with Adobe however seems to be completely CPU dependent, and seeing as the 4930k is a pretty good processor, I'm not sure what else I can do to decrease the export times for HD and 4k stuff. a 30 minute show takes I would guess, 2 - 2 and a half hours in HD. I'm kind of out of Ideas on how to decrease it through reasonable means, unless Raiding Hard drives actually does make a difference..

            • 3. Re: Vram 6GB vs 3GB with 4k and beyond in mind?
              JEShort01 Level 4

              Fellow72,

               

              The GTX 980 cards are hard to find, and for good reason - they are performing very well (for gamers and Adobe CC 2014 users). Your best choices to go with now are the GTX 970 or 980 for your particular rig and workflow.

               

              Your observation regarding rendering to H.264 with your version of Adobe being CPU dependent is correct - yes, it is indeed. On the other hand, renders to DVD format however are largely GPU dependent (assuming you have a decent MPE capable GPU, which you do not have - yet anyway!).

               

              I agree with Photon regarding CC 2014, that would probably be a good idea for 4k.

               

              I disagree with Photon however regarding a 2x RAID 0 being "a good starting point" with you having 7TB of 7200 rpm drives plus an EVO drive already. You should get the GTX video card next and see if you can't configure your drives such that you can get your CPU cores 95+ percent utilized during an output render to H.264 (must test w/o any third party filters like Red Giant, NEAT, etc. to assure you can utilize all cores). And, if you can, you are not "drive bound" and more $$$ in that area will not gain you any additional performance.

               

              Finally, as you mention the tweakers page, you have obviously found Harm and Bill's really useful www.ppbm7.com web site. You should run their very useful PPBM7 benchmark on your rig (after the GPU upgrade though) to see how your system performs. They have come up with separate tests that push drives, CPU, and GPU separately and they have a searchable, sortable database that reports the results.

               

              Regards,

               

              Jim

              • 4. Re: Vram 6GB vs 3GB with 4k and beyond in mind?
                Fellow72 Level 1

                I've desired to switch to CC but the reason why I've been avoiding CC is due to the lack of perpetual Licences. I've already had to do a bunch of upgrades, adding an additional 60 dollars a month forever, is pretty costly. But if or when 4K becomes a TV standard, and CS6 proves too problematic or inconvenient, i'll switch over to CC. The only main problem I see in regards to editing 4K in Cs6 are the new xavc codecs, which is becoming more and more prominent in Sony's 4k camera releases. But currently, our cameras don't have that problem. In the future, we eventually will, but until that happens, I think it's best to save the $60 a month for x amount of years and invest it elsewhere. The only thing that would make me jump ship immediately is if they make the closed captioning feature less tedious to use, since then i can cut out the middleman and it would cover the monthly cost. It's something Adobe I feel should really focus on for the next release, considering all the recent CRTC regulation changes that went into effect this September, they could really cash in on the Closed Captioning market. It would also provoke tons of legacy product users like myself to upgrade since it would automatically cover captioning costs at a much cheaper rate.

                 

                I'll play around with the hard drive setup in the upcoming weeks as you said to get the most optimal performance.

                 

                Thanks a ton for the clarification on all the other things, I just wasn't really 100% sure. I'll keep looking for the 980, and hopefully I won't have to settle for a 780 ti.

                 

                Once I make the GPU upgrade, I will definitely run the PPBM7 benchmark on my rig to see how it performs in comparison to others. I've been eager to try it out.

                 

                Many thanks again Jim, and Photon, really appreciate the help!