4 Replies Latest reply: Oct 28, 2014 5:50 PM by MikeSam RSS

    Using XDCAM HD proxy files

    MikeSam Community Member
    MikeSam Oct 24, 2014 11:13 PM

      We are trying to find the most appropriate and stable workflow with our XDCAM HD material.  We find that Prelude takes a long time to process the thumbnails and give access to the material on disks after we click "Ingest" when we have a XDCAM disk inserted that has lots of material on it.  Its quite unusable.


      It seems to be that Prelude looks at the MXFs on the disk and attempts to work with only the HD media.  What I'd like to know is, is there any way to have Prelude use the proxy files for clip selection, and then import the full hires material when you select "ingest"?

       

      We're basically finding it too slow to be useful.  What we'd like is to use it in the same way as we used to use the old Sony XDCAM Transfer application with Final Cut Pro, if anyone is familiar with that.

        • 1. Re: Using XDCAM HD proxy files
          michaelgoshey Adobe Employee
          michaelgoshey Oct 25, 2014 12:48 AM (in response to MikeSam)

          Hi,

           

          Which version of Prelude are you using?

           

          Prelude 2.1 introduced special optimization a around XDCAM. Specifically, Prelude added support to read the proxies in the Ingest Dialog instead of loading the raw HD clips for the preview and selection. So basically what you are looking for already exists in v2.1 and later.

           

          If you are using a later version of Prelude please let me know. Also please let me know what camera you are shooting with.

           

          Regards,

          Michael

           

          Michael Goshey

          Senior Engineering Manager

          Adobe Systems, Inc.

          • 2. Re: Using XDCAM HD proxy files
            MikeSam Community Member
            MikeSam Oct 25, 2014 4:44 PM (in response to michaelgoshey)

            Thanks so much for your reply Michael.  By the way, I'm very impressed that someone in your position with the Prelude team is so involved in looking after the program and helping the users.  I've been very impressed with how proactive Adobe staff are with the tech support.  And you are quite senior in the Prelude team I see so that is very impressive.

             

            Having a closer look tonight, I believe you are right and it is loading the proxies.  So in a sense I guess I was asking the wrong question.

             

            The problem we are having is that, as I said, it is slow when there is a lot of media on the disk.  Obviously (?) it is busy loading the proxy on big files - we are often trying to bring in a 30 minute press conference but only interested, say in a 20 second grab from 27 minutes in.

             

            Another common situation is that we will have a disk with a few shortish clips, followed by a very long clip like the above.  In the old XDCAM Transfer we could select "Import" on the shorter clips and, even if the proxy for a longer clip was still loading, it would prioritise the hi-res clip that was selected as the next job.  We found when rolling out our Premier/Prelude systems that the guys are getting bogged down while the proxy for the longer clip loads, when they just need to get started cutting with the shorter clips, and they can wait for the long one.

             

            Ideally we'd like to be able to display the contents of the disk and select a clip and have it start ingesting even if it hasn't loaded up the proxy yet, and further, if some clips have loaded proxies but others are yet to load we'd love to be able to get it to start ingesting those files even before the long clips have loaded their proxies.

             

            Not sure if all that made sense, sorry if it was a bit long-winded!


            We're using Sony PDW-700 cameras, shooting in 1080i50 35Mbps. (HD420HQ)

             

            Edit - I did some extra testing on my personal machine, running Prelude 3.1.0 (128), and it runs beautifully.  I'll check the company machines later today, which are the ones we are having trouble on.  They are running the previous version though, and they were definitely not working well.

            • 3. Re: Using XDCAM HD proxy files
              michaelgoshey Adobe Employee
              michaelgoshey Oct 26, 2014 10:44 PM (in response to MikeSam)

              Hi -

               

              Thank you for your kind words. We try very hard to be responsive to our customers – whether it be problems they are having or feature requests they’d like to see. Working together helps us make better products.

               

              Thanks for the additional workflow background as well. I think I understand the issue.  Normally I’d like to set up a quick call with you to go over these details to ensure I fully understand the problem you are having, but I am traveling on business all week which makes it tough to find the open time.  Next week (week of Nov 3) I am back in the office and would be happy to chat live with you then if you’d like as well.

               

              For now, let’s see if I can shed a little more light on what is supposed to be happening in Prelude and we can compare with what you’re actually getting Prelude to do for you.

               

              When you open the Ingest Dialog and select your media on the card, Prelude will attempt to load the thumbnails of your clips as quickly as it can. We generate these thumbnails from the proxy files (if they exist)  instead of the high-res because it is quicker. We aren’t trying to load the entire proxy into memory (but I’m beginning to wonder if indeed we are doing this – will verify). When you scrub or playback the thumbnail in the Ingest Dialog you are playing only the proxy. Again – for performance reasons.

               

              When you are ready to transfer the media and hit INGEST, we transfer the clips as fast as possible to your destination. The order the clips are transferred in should match the order in the thumbnail view. As each item is successfully transferred, it should show up in the Project Panel and is now ready for logging, etc. This means while some of your files are still in transit you can still work on the ones that have arrived. Not sure if this is where you are seeing some of the issues, but it sounded like perhaps this was one area. Happy to hear more about this as well.

               

              The other issue you mentioned was when you are attempting to do a Partial Ingest – selecting 20 seconds of media from minute 27 of a 30 minute clip. You say this is slow. Can you tell me more? Is it slow trying to scrub to find the 20 seconds of gold you’re looking for? Or is it simply that the clip is not available for a long while before you can start reviewing it? Maybe something else?

               

              I hope this is helping somewhat? Feel free to write me directly at mgoshey@adobe.com where we can also chat more and let me know if you are available the week of Nov 3 for a quick chat – as I think that will help me further understand the core issues.

               

              Thanks again!

               

              Michael

              • 4. Re: Using XDCAM HD proxy files
                MikeSam Community Member
                MikeSam Oct 28, 2014 5:50 PM (in response to michaelgoshey)

                OK I've managed to do some comparative tests.

                 

                Firstly you are right, Prelude is not copying the entire proxy to the computer - when you scrub through the thumbnail view it is reading it off the disk.  This is good because it saves the time copying the proxy and the camera is able to keep up so its fine.

                 

                I'll send you an email with the exact findings of my tests because you may be interested but the basic takeaway from all this is that there appear to be some significant stability and speed improvements between version 3.0.1(3) and version 3.1.0(128).  The same machines running the same equipment, but with the previous version, were constantly falling over.

                 

                So you've answered my question: Prelude does use the proxies, and rather than copying them it reads them straight off the disk to save time.

                 

                And also it appears that v3.0.1 had some sort of issue in our workflow.  Initially I was worried that Prelude wasn't going to work for us at all but now it seems a simple upgrade will solve our problem.  You might say why didn't I just update the machine before starting but that is easier said than done! I needed to be sure it was worth it because changes to our fleet of computers have to go through the company's processes and procedures to ensure other things don't get ruined.

                 

                Thanks so much for your help