32 Replies Latest reply on Nov 18, 2014 8:25 AM by res259

    Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0

    res259

      Hi. I need help understanding how to convert PageMaker 7.0 files into PDFs. I've got SOME technical proficiency in the area, but not much.

       

      Note that I am using a trial version of PM7 (perhaps the problem), running in Classic Mode (System 9.2), on a Powerbook G4 which otherwise runs on 10.4.11. Acrobat reader 5.0 and Distiller 5.05 are also present I believe, but Reader and Distiller confuse me a bit as it seems I'm constantly having at least Reader pushed to my system from the net when I try and access content, and I'm not completely clear on how they relate to each other and when to use what. I may have installed Distiller a long time ago when using FrameMaker for some work I was doing at the time.

       

      I should ask by the way whether or not PM7 files are supposed to have an extension. I think not because if I remember correctly that wasn't required until OSX, but please correct if I'm wrong. For what it's worth, none of my files are showing them.


      1) To help troubleshoot, I've created a very simple test page with no complex elements––just the single word "test" in a common type face.

      2) I've selected File > Export > Adobe PDF

      3) This opens the PDF options pane. Though I'm not entirely sure what I SHOULD be doing here, I've set the PDF style to [Print], rather then [On Screen] as I want an actual file, and the Job Name for Distiller to "Print". Under "Edit Job Options", on the "General" tab, "Compatibility" is set to "Acrobat 4.0 (PDF 1.3)". On the "Fonts" tab, I've selected "Embed all fonts", as I want the document to show properly regardless of where it is viewed, and "Warn and Continue" when embedding fails. Obviously there are a number of other settings which I assume are secondary given the simple test I'm trying to carry out, but again please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

       

      From here, I've tried selecting the "Export" button. This calls up a destination and naming pane which is set to save the document to my desktop, append a ".pdf" extension to the file name, and view using Acrobat Reader 5.0.

       

      When I hit "Save", a few dialog boxes flash so quickly that I'm unable to read them, then I get a greyed out message that reads:

       

      "The PDF file was not created. This may be due to a user cancellation or an error in the PostScript file. Please check the log information located in: Macintosh HD:Users:(home folder name):Desktop:(filename).log. The viewer will not be loaded"

       

      There is an "OK" button which, when pressed, returns me to the document.

       

      With this in mind, I have tried a second approach with some success. Specifically, I have tried:

       

      1) File > Print > Options and select "Write PostScript to file:", the program auto populates my filename with a ".ps" extension appended. Checking this changes the "Print" button to a "Save" button.

      2) A "Save As" option also allows me to pick a destination.

       

      Upon selecting the "Save" button, it creates a (filename).ps file on my desktop. When I open this, a progress bar opens that says "Converting PostScript File to PDF". A PDF file of the document then opens in Preview, which allows me to save it as a PDF. This generates a (filename).pdf file with an Adobe Reader icon, I think because I've made that my default PDF reader as opposed to Preview.


      Unfortunately, some of the more specialized type faces in this PDF are not displaying. Does this relate to the issue of embedding? I always thought PDFs were totally "flat," much like a screen capture, but do you have to essentially tell it to be flat by embedding the type? Will the docs otherwise display differently on different machines depending upon what fonts are available?

       

      That's about as far as I've gotten. Obviously, any help you could give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for everyone's time.

        • 1. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
          Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

          Adobe Reader (Acrobat Reader in ancient systems) - not related to making PDFs, only reading them.

           

           

          Acrobat Distiller - essential part of making the PDF. Used by Export.

           

           

          File Extensions - not needed for OS 9.

           

           

          The style affects the options used in making the PDF. "Screen" still makes a PDF, it is just designed for screen viewing, not for printing.

           

           

          Ok, the export failed. In fact, Distiller probably failed. Did you look in the log file mentioned in the message? This is the first thing to check.

           

           

          It might be that your fonts are not licensed for embedding, for example, in which case you have a big problem.

          • 2. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
            res259 Level 1

            Thanks for your response. Sorry, I had started to mention this in my original post but guess I accidentally overwrote it while editing . . . for some reason, I can't seem to find the log anywhere after a failure––neither at the address given nor anywhere else on the drive.

             

            Moreover, I don't THINK it's an embedding issue just because 1) I have also tried it without embedding and experienced the same result, and 2) my test page just features one word created in the Times font resident on the Mac which I'm almost certain is not restricted in any way.

             

            With the second process I described, where just some of the type is being substituted, it's not even at the PDF creation stage; it's just when I'm generating the postscript file which, if I understand correctly, is a stepping stone on the way to making a PDF, right? In that case, would embedding even be an issue? And again, the font that is hanging up is Zapf Dingbat. Pretty freely available. I'm almost certain that this has something to do with either one of my settings or how I have it installed in Font Book. PLUS, I can create PDFs using it on the OSX side when I "print" them from MS Word.

             

            Of course, this begs the question: are the "export" command and the "print to postscript" feature (followed by conversion to PDF in Preview) just two different means to the same end? I assume export/distiller just combines the whole process into one step.

             

            Lastly, I almost never post to forums. Is there some proper etiquette when it comes to acknowledging your answer?

            • 3. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
              Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

              "where just some of the type is being substituted, it's not even at the PDF creation stage; it's just when I'm generating the postscript file which," ---  how are you seeing/deciding this?

               

              Preview does what Distiller does in this case, but I don't think anyone here would recommend using Preview. If you have PostScript, try to convert it with Distiller, and watch for messages in the Distiller window.

               

              Thanks for asking about forum etiquette. I don't know either and I spend a lot of time here!

              • 4. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                res259 Level 1

                My pleasure on etiquette . . .

                 

                Just to clarify, with the first process (export command), I get nothing at all. If I go the second route . . . File > Print > Options  > Write PostScript to file > Save, I DO get a postscript file which I CAN open and turn into a PDF through Preview. (Haven't tried through Distiller, though not a bad idea). In this case, the process involves opening the postscript file into Preview at which time I can see the results. I've tried more complex files with this process and can see that most of the text prints as intended but there are some substitutions (e.g. Zapf Dingbat).

                 

                So if Export to Distiller is the correct approach, is print to postscript file intended for some other purpose? Am I hijacking it for an unintended purpose?

                 

                Any idea where that log might be going? It would certainly help. Could Terminal tell us anything?

                • 5. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                  Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

                  Print to PostScript then Distill should be much the same as using Export. The different is that you MUST select appropriate options in Distiller, rather than on Export. THE DEFAULTS MAY NOT SUIT YOU especially as I'm assuming this is for printing of some kind. Using Distiller may tell us what the problem was with export.

                   

                  By the way, I'm assuming the purpose of this exercise is to convert some ancient documents once made in PageMaker. If you are looking for a new tool for this job (rather than converting old documents) there are much better ways forward.

                  • 6. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                    res259 Level 1

                    Wow, I think you got it!!

                     

                    Per your suggestion, I just tried the print command to create a PS file. Then I ran that output through distiller, and voila! Not only did it work, it included the previously missing fonts. Some other test files didn't convert as well, but those have fonts that I know to be missing from my library––possibly because they are incompatible, which may be a whole other problem.

                     

                    That said, the full backstory here is as follows: I have a fair number of personal files that I originally authored in PageMaker 4.01 on an old 7200/75 PowerMac. None are particularly complex; mostly just text with some simple lines and boxes here or there. I'm not using them for any high-level work or printing; they're just my everyday docs ranging from the mundane to the marginally important.

                     

                    Ultimately, I need to transfer them into a brand new iMac running Mavericks, but for the moment, I'm working with the originals on the 7200 and with some copies in both PM 4.01 and PM 7 on the PowerBook G4 running classic. I was planning on a  final conversion to In Design, but given all the problems I've had retaining original formatting, I'm rethinking that. There are very few that I need to be able to edit, and many can probably be converted to text and poured into MS Word. Some, however, I would like to retain in their original form. Hence my attempt to make PDFs.


                    All this is not without it's problems however. The 7200 is my best bet for opening the original files without changes to layout. Unfortunately, I don't think I have any way to make a PDF in that environment . . . unless maybe Distiller 5.05 will work with System 7.5.3 and PS files generated by PageMaker 4.01. Even then, it's a bit difficult (though not impossible) to get files in and out of that machine because of the interface options . . . or lack thereof.

                     

                    The G4 is easier to make the conversions on, but I'm having trouble getting all the fonts I need installed there.


                    So if you know of a better approach, I'd definitely love to hear it.

                     

                    In the meantime, do you mind a few more questions?

                     

                    1) Do you know what library I need to install the missing fonts in for them to be functional in OSX, or would I install them in the system 9 library since Distiller runs in that OS? Font management always leaves me scratching my head.

                     

                    2) Generally speaking, can you tell me what settings it might be important pay attention to, both when printing to a PS file and converting in Distiller?


                    In particular, when making the PS file, should I tell it to download PostScript AND Truetype Fonts, just Truetype fonts, or neither?


                    Would I use Symbol for special characters?

                     

                    And would I save it as a Normal, EPS or prepress? And with or without page Independence?

                     

                    In Distiller, what would I pick for Acrobat compatibility? Do PDFs work w. newer readers as well? In other words, if I make it compatible with 4.0, will it work with 5.0?

                     

                    Any important settings on Compression? I have no real images unless you count lines or boxes, and nothing in color? Should I just remove compression by deselecting bicubic downsampling and compression quality under grayscale, or is it meaningless?

                     

                    On fonts tab Embed all?

                     

                    What about Subsers?

                     

                    What are base 14 fonts? And do I have to tell it to embed a specific font if I've already told it to embed all.?

                     

                    On advanced tab, do I allow PS file to override job options?

                     

                    Any other important advanced settings?

                     

                    3) Finally, so I can avoid this problem in the future, what steps do I need to take to make to ensure I am creating truly portable documents––ones which will not change when moved from machine to machine? Is it as straightforward as just embedding fonts?

                     

                    Thanks so much for the help! You definitely get the star for Correct Answer

                    • 7. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                      Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

                      Distiller gets its fonts from specific directories, not from the system. So check your Distiller options.

                       

                      Symbol a good choice. Embed all recommended. Subset usually recommended. Base 14: Helvetica, Courier, Times Roman, Symbol, ZapfDingbats.

                       

                      Doesn't matter about the downloading options, or PostScript type, or page independence. Or override job options.

                       

                      Set compatibility for PDF 1.4, but it isn't critical. We are now up to PDF 1.7 but new readers must handle all versions.

                       

                      Compression only important for images. In fact, if you don't have images or colour, at this level, probably only font embedding is important.

                      • 8. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                        Jay Chevako Level 3

                        It's nice to see someone taking a reasoned and researched approach to upgrading, that's very rare around here.
                        Didn't pm 4 come with distiller? Can you install it from the original cd? Can you create .ps files on the 7200 and then transfer those files over to a machine that does have distiller?


                        as to your other questions

                        1. Install the fonts in classic
                        2. Download all the fonts that you use in the doc, embed and subset fonts, save as normal (p.s.) with page independence and I wouldn't worry about the rest
                        2. Embed and subset the fonts when you covert to pdf. This will prevent any font substitution, and is the best way to preserve your original doc.
                        Jay

                        • 9. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                          res259 Level 1

                          Hi,

                           

                          Sorry for my absence. Had to take a break, but now I'm back at this.

                           

                          More good news. I installed some of the missing fonts into the Classic Font Library, and my more complex docs are now beginning to show properly and convert to PDFs with good fidelity. Still more work to be done, but I'm getting there.

                           

                          So thank you again for all the guidance; I truly appreciate it. Having come this far though, I want to finish properly, so let me just try to drill down on the details a bit more.

                           

                          1)You mentioned that Distiller gets fonts from specific directories. Are you referring to what shows up on the Fonts tab in the Job Options Folder? I see now that  Base 14 Fonts was just an option to select in the pull-down menu on that page. More on this in a minute, but what ARE Base 14 Fonts?

                           

                          To fine tune my question about fonts a bit more, even before considering Distiller, what I was trying to understand was where to properly install them so they would show up as available for the original file. Jay, who also responded, steered me towards the Classic folder, and it wasn't until I actually installed them there that I got the file to display properly.

                           

                          And don't I have to get it to do that BEFORE I generate the postscript? It's not that I'd generate a substituted PS file then have distiller sub them BACK in is it? This leads to some other questions about embedding, but let me close with that as it's the most complicated point I want to treat.

                           

                          2) You mentioned that, when generating the PS file, I don't worry about downloading fonts. Jay on the other hand says I should download all that I'm using. In point of fact, when I select the option to generate a PS file, it automatically selects some sort of download option depending upon which output format I pick (NORMAL, EPS, or Prepress). Jay felt it advisable to download all fonts I'd be using (I assume he meant types of fonts) and pick Page Independence. Since I have to pick something, I'm assuming this would be fine.

                           

                          3) Understand I don't have to worry about images or compression, but just to clarify, would images, by definition, be graphics files I imported from another source? They would not be graphics created with the lines and shapes available through PM, right?

                           

                          4) Now for the tough one . . . this embedding thing is hard for me to get my head around . . . not in theory, just in practice.

                           

                          Let me sort of walk thorough my understanding.

                           

                          First I go to make the PS file. As mentioned, if I select this option from the print dialog box, I have to at least pick a normal output and it wants to download the PostScript and TrueType fonts. Does this essentially embed the fonts at this stage? Because after that, I move on to Distiller, and what I've found is this,: even if I don't embed, I get a file that displays correctly upon opening. And if I move that file to a new computer, it STILL displays correctly. This seems to suggest that the file I'm getting is already totally flat––that is, it doesn't need to communicate with any other files to display correctly.

                           

                          I'm probably missing some point here though, so let me nonetheless ask for a bit more help understanding how to set the embedding options in case you tell me I indeed need to do this.

                           

                          First off, the first option is to EMBED ALL FONTS. If I select that, am I done? What does it mean when it says Subset Embedded Fonts When Percent of Characters Used is Less than X? What percent would I use, and again, haven't I covered all my bases when I just tell it to embed all? Beyond that, what if anything do I need to do with the menu that allows me to categorize fonts as Always or Never Embed.

                           

                          Sorry for all the detailed back and forth. I'm an experienced Mac user but know just enough to confuse myself when it comes to all this.

                          • 10. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                            res259 Level 1

                            Jay,


                            I'm a bit new to positing on forums, and it says you were replying to Test Screen Name, but I think your response was meant for me, so thanks for the input and for the compliment. For better or worse, I guess I'm just kind of wired that way. It's not always an asset : )


                            Fantastic idea to author the PS files on the old machine then bring them over to the new! Don't know why I didn't think of that except that my understanding of how all these file types and versions talk to each other is still evolving.

                             

                            That said, as luck would have it, I figured out a way to start populating the new machine with my older fonts, so I THINK I can avoid the hassle of the transfer. Plus, I'm a bit concerned about whether it would work because, for some strange reason, now that I got some of the fonts into the new machine, I'm finding that files from the PM 4 display correctly but they don't convert to PS files properly. PM 7 files seem to do better however, so that seems to be where I should focus my efforts for the moment.

                             

                            Thanks also for the other advice. I am considering it alongside the information that Test Screen Name provided, and if you look above, you'll see that I've asked for some clarification on a few points, including where you two have slightly different takes on the matter. Feel free to chime in wherever you think appropriate, and thanks again for the support. You folks have made a daunting task manageable!

                            • 11. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                              Jay Chevako Level 3

                              I usually reply to the last message. I don't take to these newfangled forums, I still miss my newsreader access.

                              My thoughts on embedding and subsetting, I want the pdf to have the exact font I used.  By embedding and subsetting all of them you put the exact font that you used into the pdf and " change" the name so that it will not substitute any font in your pdf.  Those base fonts are a throwback to the days when printers had fonts pre downloaded to them to speed up the printing process. The problem is there are many different versions of those base fonts. While the differences may be small it's often enough to roll your text onto a new line.

                               

                              You should also take the time to export the text from those document to an .rtf or text file. It's possible to do it from a .pdf file, but it's easier from the pagemaker document.
                              Jay

                              • 12. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                res259 Level 1

                                So just to sort of reprise what I wrote above . . . this embedding thing is hard for me to get my head around . . . not in theory, just in practice.

                                 

                                If it's alright with you, I'd like to walk thorough a file creation and highlight what I'm getting stuck on.

                                 

                                First I go to make the PS file. When I select this option from the print dialog box in PM 7, I have to choose an output format, (Normal, EPS, or For Prepress). Per your suggestion, I select Normal with Page Independence (What is that by the way?). I also have to pick what, if any, type of fonts to download (PostScript AND TrueType together, TrueType alone, or None) (Where am I downloading them to by the way?). Then I print the PS file.

                                 

                                In point of fact, I've actually tried creating two different versions of the file . . . one where I download both the Postscript AND TrueType fonts together and a second where I don't download any fonts. I've then tried running each of these through Distiller but WITHOUT embedding any fonts at the Distiller level. Both files seem to display just fine, even when I move them to another computer that is missing the fonts used.

                                 

                                This has me stumped. What is downloading the fonts at the PostScript level supposed to do . . . or not do? And if I'm not embedding anything, why is the doc displaying correctly in the absence of these fonts?

                                 

                                Since I'm sure I'm missing something here, let me nonetheless try to understand what steps I'm supposed to take if I DO indeed need to properly embed using Distiller.

                                 

                                You've said a couple times that I should both Embed and Subset, so would I start by just checking the EMBED ALL FONTS option?


                                After that, the Fonts tab in Distiller asks if I want to Subset Embedded Fonts When Percent of Characters Used is Less than X? What exactly is Subsetting, what does this mean, and how should I set this parameter?


                                Finally, there are drop-down menus and dialog boxes that allow me to select font families from different sources––Base 14, System Folder, Distiller Resource Folder, and an Adobe Application Support Folder––and to categorize the fonts so that they are either Always or Never embedded. The most extensive list is of the fonts contained in the System Folder, but again, its unclear to me: how does this setting relate to the others on the pane? Which, if any, source should I choose from? And how should I set the option?


                                So sorry for all the back and forth. I'm somewhat versed in these matters but, it appears, just enough to confuse myself.

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                • 13. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                  Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

                                  "I select Normal with Page Independence (What is that by the way?)." Doesn't matter, really not relevant in this case. Relevant if you actually print, but you aren't.

                                   

                                  "I also have to pick what, if any, type of fonts to download (PostScript AND TrueType together, TrueType alone, or None) (Where am I downloading them to by the way?). Then I print the PS file."

                                  Not relevant. "Download" here means include in the PostScript file. Important for a printer! But you aren't using a printer. Distiller finds the fonts anyway.

                                   

                                  "You've said a couple times that I should both Embed and Subset, so would I start by just checking the EMBED ALL FONTS option?" Yes.

                                   

                                  "After that, the Fonts tab in Distiller asks if I want to Subset Embedded Fonts When Percent of Characters Used is Less than X? What exactly is Subsetting, what does this mean, and how should I set this parameter?"

                                  Subsetting includes only the characters you actually use in the font. So if you only say "Abracadabra" the only characters includes are "Abracd". Makes the file smaller, so generally recommended.

                                   

                                  "Finally, there are drop-down menus and dialog boxes that allow me to select font families from different sources––Base 14, System Folder, Distiller Resource Folder, and an Adobe Application Support Folder––and to categorize the fonts so that they are either Always or Never embedded. The most extensive list is of the fonts contained in the System Folder, but again, its unclear to me: how does this setting relate to the others on the pane? Which, if any, source should I choose from? And how should I set the option?" Just ignore it, it's for fine tuning, to include or exclude specific fonts.

                                  • 14. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                    res259 Level 1

                                    Hi. Sorry for my absence and these continued questions. Not only have I been trying to dovetail your answers with Jays, this is all very nuanced, and new, and it's difficult for me to troubleshoot without a full understanding. I this doesn't do it, I'll take what I've got and call it a day . . . or maybe I'm ready for that easier way forward . . . So . . .


                                    1) What percentage should I select for subsetting, and what does the percentage essentially help adjust for?


                                    2) Am I correct that objects or graphics created IN pagemaker (e.g. lines or boxes) wouldn't require any attention paid to compression?


                                    3) Just to clarify, do I need to worry about output type, page independence, and/or font downloading if I'm either going to rotate pages independently at the PDF creation stage or if I'm going to print from the PDFs ultimately?


                                    4) Jay said it is also important to make an RTF file, ideally from the PM file? Why, and how do I do this? I can't seem to find the option under export or print.


                                    Finally, there are still some things going on, I can't quite tease out.


                                    5) First off, as mentioned, even when I DON'T embed fonts, files seem to be showing properly on computers that lack these fonts. What does this suggest?


                                    6) I'm seeing small aberrations in certain files. Original documents look fairly accurate when I open them, but when I move to PS file and then PDF, things get increasingly worse. Margins change, the scaling on some fonts distorts, line spacing shifts, line weights vary, and/or tracking and kearning seems different.

                                     

                                    Generally, if I open a PS file in preview, it creates an intermediary file which it calls a PDF. Some things look a tad off there, but even more problems appear when I finalize the PDF or make one by running it through distiller. Any idea what i might be experiencing? Some files seem to do just fine.

                                     

                                    7) The aforementioned has me wondering if I've been putting fonts in the right place. You said Distiller gets its fonts from specific directories and that I should explore the options settings for more info, but I couldn't quite figure out the relationship between those two features. Jay had mentioned Classic Font Folder as the best repository, and that seems to have been the only thing that got the docs to open correctly on screen. Could you explain a bit further?

                                     

                                    8) Also still not clear: does the doc need to be displaying with all the correct fonts BEFORE making the PS file, or will Distiller sub them in from one of those directories you describe?

                                     

                                    Again, sorry for drilling down so deep, and thanks for your patience and help.

                                    • 15. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                      Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

                                      "1) What percentage should I select for subsetting, and what does the percentage essentially help adjust for?"

                                      100% is good.


                                      "2) Am I correct that objects or graphics created IN pagemaker (e.g. lines or boxes) wouldn't require any attention paid to compression?"

                                      Correct.


                                      "3) Just to clarify, do I need to worry about output type, page independence,"


                                      I've already said these are irrelevant. I say "relevant if you actually print" meaning, "relevant if your PostScript is what is printed". It is of no importance at all if your PostScript is turned into PDF, whatever you do with it.


                                      "and/or font downloading" Go with what I said before.


                                      "Jay said it is also important to make an RTF file, ideally from the PM file? "

                                      This is part of your strategy for the future, to save everything you can in case one day PageMaker doesn't work for you. Your off-site back up should include whatever can be rescued. Copy and paste into Word.

                                       

                                      "5) First off, as mentioned, even when I DON'T embed fonts, files seem to be showing properly on computers that lack these fonts. What does this suggest?" (a) Acrobat makes substitute fonts with the right spacing and basic style; this might fool you (b) in certain cases, unknown, it might need to embed anyway. Still, use the option.


                                      "6) I'm seeing small aberrations in certain files. Original documents look fairly accurate when I open them, but when I move to PS file and then PDF, things get increasingly worse. Margins change, the scaling on some fonts distorts, line spacing shifts, line weights vary, and/or tracking and kearning seems different." Be sure you aren't changing the COMPOSE TO printer. This is extremely important (not sure of the exact term used).

                                       

                                      "Generally, if I open a PS file in preview, it creates an intermediary file which it calls a PDF." All bets are off with Preview. Use Distiller, you paid for it!

                                       

                                      "8) Also still not clear: does the doc need to be displaying with all the correct fonts BEFORE making the PS file" Goodness me, yes. The PageMaker document must be right and ready for printing, because that is the technology you are building on.

                                      • 16. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                        res259 Level 1

                                        Okay. Thanks so much for this. We are really close!!

                                         

                                        Here's one thing I found out. The corruption comes from two sources. First, as you pointed out, the original doc has to have good integrity. (I assumed as much, but also had just wondered if one program subbed out a font whether distiller might just sub it back in). As it turns out, both my PM4 and PM7 versions of the docs are a bit off when displayed on the G4 as opposed to the 7200. I guess that doesn't seem beyond the pale with the PM7 conversions, but shouldn't the fidelity of the PM4 files be good if I've carried over the fonts from the original machine?

                                         

                                        Was it correct to have put the fonts into the Classic library? And did you mention that I need to pay additional attention to some directory for Distiller?

                                         

                                        Second, the additional problems that are cropping up in the PDF don't seem to have anything to do with the creation of the PDFs. Rather, they seem to be coming from the Reader. When I open and read in Acrobat, margins, kearning, etc. are off. Even the location of certain elements on the page. And when I print, it takes forever, and the outputs reflect the errors. When I open using Preview, original errors from the PS file obviously still display, but the PDF appears true to that PS file, and prints quickly and without any additional errors.

                                         

                                        Couldn't see a COMPOSE TO option. I assume you mean when making the PS file. But as you can tell, I've been pretty darn careful about all the settings.

                                         

                                        Any thoughts on why the reader might be mishandling the docs?

                                         

                                        So a word file is considered an RTF? My plan is to permanently convert some docs to Word and to save others to PDF alone. No more PageMaker or InDesign as it's made too much trouble for me. Do I still need Word/RTF files if I just plan to archive the PDFs?

                                         

                                        Sorry. That's really it! I truly appreciate your time and have learned SO much.

                                        • 17. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                          Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

                                          PageMaker has to find the fonts, so you need to install them to OS9.

                                           

                                          Now, PageMaker is designed not to reflow. But it has to use printer metrics to lay out the text. So, you pick a printer at the start of the project and stick to it. This is the COMPOSE TO printer, and you can still print to any printer. I believe it is set in Document Setup, and installing this driver, together with installing fonts, is the main thing in keeping continuity. You may need to keep the driver for a long ago trashed printer.

                                          • 18. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                            Jay Chevako Level 3

                                            4) You said you might want to work some of those files in word. If I remember correctly you can select the text and hit file export and choose .rtf.
                                            Jay

                                            • 19. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                              res259 Level 1

                                              Okay, so many layers here that I guess I'm going to have to eat my words . . . a few more questions . . . : (

                                               

                                              An interesting point about the printer. I have the same drivers installed in Classic on the newer G4 as I do on the 7200 and am using the same old trusty HP 5MP which is still performing like a champ after 20 years!

                                               

                                              Observations and problems are as follows:

                                               

                                              1) On the G4, when I try to connect to the printer using the chooser, I can see the icon and select it, but the printer won't actually appear in the adjacent dialog box for setup.

                                              2) On the 7200, I can print, but one font is being subbed with Courier. This is strange because the message is saying Garamond Light can't be found, but the font actually being subbed is Garamond, not Garamond Light. Moreover, both fonts are present. Moreover, if I hold down the option key while printing, which redirects the PageMaker to use the Apple print setup, everything prints fine.

                                              3) On the G4, no matter what I do, I get a message that the printer can't be found, which I guess makes sense since I can't seem to fully select it with the chooser. Perhaps worth noting that Classic demands I turn on AppleTalk on the OSX side, otherwise I just get an internal error.however, the same commands lead to a message that says the printer cannot be found. Interesting to note that Classic demands I turn on AppleTalk on the OSX side in order to even try printing,

                                               

                                              So questions:

                                               

                                              A) Any idea why I can't print on the G4 and why the 7200 is subbing in for fonts that aren't missing?

                                               

                                              At least with respect to the G4, my hypothesis is the USB port cannot be configured for Appletalk so that the printer cannot be "seen."

                                               

                                              But would this also stop the proper printer metrics from being available when making a PS file?

                                               

                                              B) None of this explains why using Reader to view the PDFs I'm creating alters the layout while Preview does not. Any idea what's going on there?

                                               

                                              C) Early on (8th frame above) you mentioned that Distiller has it's own Font directories it uses. Can you explain this a bit further including describe where they are located? Could that have any bearing on any of this?

                                               

                                              D) Couldn't find a COMPOSE TO option in either PM 4 or 7. I did a little googling and came across this tutorial:

                                               

                                              10 steps to creating a layout in Adobe® PageMaker®

                                               

                                              Step 3 talks about the compose feature being specific to Windows. Could this be what you were thinking of? Is there something analogous I need to do in Mac environment?

                                               

                                              Sorry for all the back and forth. Guess it's pretty technical stuff.

                                              • 20. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                                Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

                                                You're right, "(In Mac OS, fonts are device independent, meaning that all the font information needed for printing is handled by the operating system; this is one of the reasons PageMaker for Mac OS doesn't have the Compose To Printer option)"  The Compose To Printer Setting in PageMaker for Windows - Support Knowledgebase

                                                 

                                                I have few more ideas, except to note that Classic was pretty half hearted and PageMaker long predates it; I'd be inclined to boot OS 9 rather than rely on Classic.

                                                • 21. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                                  res259 Level 1

                                                  Hmm. Not sure I'm following COMPLETELY in that I don't think PageMaker was ever authored for the OSX environment, and I don't think there's any way to boot 9 on a newer machine . . . which is why they included Classic. Moreover, the points outlined in A-C are still TOTALLY mystifying to me.

                                                   

                                                  But it truly appreciate your digging so deep on this with me. I guess, at this point, I'll just take what I've got and be happy that I've got this far. Thanks again.

                                                  • 22. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                                    res259 Level 1

                                                    Hey Jay,

                                                     

                                                    Kind of hit a dead end here, but I'll just follow up with you on your one point. For files where the layout is really not important, I've been copying them into Word as this seems a less fussy format to update going forward. I checked, and I can save copies of these files as RTFs if I want, but could you just tell me what an RTF file is and why I want to do that?

                                                     

                                                    Thanks for the ongoing help and support!

                                                    • 23. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                                      Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

                                                      Maybe your machine is too new to boot OS 9, but if it is not, I would try that.


                                                      Classic was not to get around an inability to boot OS 9, it was to allow OS 9 apps to run in OS X with no need for a reboot. But it was always a flaky environment.

                                                       

                                                      B) "B) None of this explains why using Reader to view the PDFs I'm creating alters the layout while Preview does not. Any idea what's going on there?" I may misunderstand. Are you using Reader and Preview to both look at PDF - the same PDF - NOT Preview to look at the PostScript.

                                                       

                                                      C) Distiller has it's own Font directories it uses. Can you explain this a bit further including describe where they are located? " You choose this in setup. Yes, if the fonts aren't found it could have a huge impact. But if you choose EMBED ALL FONTS and there is no error, it must have found them.

                                                      • 24. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                                        res259 Level 1

                                                        Thanks for the additional insight. I never knew that there were machines that could both boot 9 and run Classic. I thought it was one or the other, but I just checked, and you are indeed right. Unfortunately, my machine is not one of them. Plus, I don't have 9 anyways. But I do know that Classic is pretty thin.

                                                         

                                                        As for Reader, yes, what has been strange is that if I take the PS file and create a PDF with Distiller then open it with Reader, I get one result. If I open the same file with Preview, I get a much better result. For the most part, Reader seems to have less respect for where type falls on the page and for the tracking and kearning, but I can't for the life of me figure why.

                                                         

                                                        With respect to the font directories and setup, I guess now I'm more confused than ever.

                                                         

                                                        If I open distiller, there are two places I seem to have access to font info. Under Settings there is an item called Font Locations. It lists three different directories the pathways for which I have listed below. These same three libraries also appear, along with the Base 14 fonts, under Job Options on the Fonts Pane in a pull-down box above where you can select to Always or Never Embed. But am I to understand if I use the Embed All command at the top of the Fonts Pane, Distiller will pull from ALL these directories?

                                                         

                                                        Macintosh HD: System Folder: Fonts:

                                                        Macintosh HD: Applications (Mac OS 9): Adobe Acrobat 5.0: Distiller::Resource:Font:

                                                        Macintosh HD: System Folder: Application Support:Adobe:Fonts:Reqrd:CMaps

                                                         

                                                        I can't quite understand the pathway on the second one as it has a double colon. And when I go to the Distiller folder (the fourth step in the path), there is no resource:font path to follow further. This path does exist ALONGSIDE the Distiller folder however, and I THINK the double colon might mean that the path splits to each after going into the Acrobat 5.0 folder. Do you know if that's correct?

                                                         

                                                        That said, only some of the fonts are visible when I select this particular pathway in the Fonts pane of the Job Options.

                                                         

                                                        For the heck of it, I just added the font library from my OSX side of the machine as well. Will that help or hurt?

                                                         

                                                        All that notwithstanding, Distiller is definitely making the PDFs, but I'm not so sure how healthy the setup is. When I open it, I get this log:

                                                         

                                                        Picture 1.png

                                                         

                                                        Then when I actually make a PDF, I get something like this:

                                                        Picture 2.png

                                                         

                                                        Should I be concerned at all?

                                                         

                                                        The PDFs when opened in Reader take forever to print, but everything works pretty smoothy in Preview. In fact, fingers crossed, I just managed to get pretty good fidelity out of the following protocol:

                                                         

                                                        1) Print PS file from PM 4 on 7200; hold down option key to defeat Adobe Driver and utilize Apple's Driver

                                                        2) Transfer file to G4 via floppy

                                                        3) Convert to PDF using Distiller on G4

                                                        4) Set file to open with preview

                                                         

                                                        That only took me about 100 hours to figure out, and I'm STILL not sure I've got a healthy file. If you know how to interpret that Distiller Log, I'd be anxious to hear your thoughts.

                                                        • 25. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                                          Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

                                                          I'm guessing :: means "go up a level", but just a guess.

                                                           

                                                          The error at startup is not important.

                                                          The error when distilling IS important. Let's get rid of it. In your job options, under Advanced, turn OFF "Process DSC comments".

                                                           

                                                          You should (must) select Embed all fonts. This does not embed all possible fonts, only the fonts you use. I recommend you also select When embedding fails: Cancel job, so there is no question of it not embedding.

                                                          • 26. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                                            res259 Level 1

                                                            Okay . . .

                                                             

                                                            1) Not sure, but I THINK double colon might mean that the two folders exist on the SAME level. I say this because when I follow that pathway, I find them in the same folder. Also, a quick Google search produced some results which seem to suggest as much, though they are a bit difficult for me to interpret. Among other things, it seems the symbol has different meanings in different languages.

                                                             

                                                            2) In experimenting with the corrections you advised (which I'll report on last), I made another discovery. My default reader on the G4 is Version 9. When I instead open with Reader 5, files print much more quickly, though still with the same errors. If I move the files to my more current iMac, Reader 9 is then able to print quickly but, again, with the errors. Preview seems to print quickly and without error in both environments. The changes you suggested seem to have no bearing on these particular problems. Any idea what I might be facing here? Is it a crime to just use Preview for opening these docs once created?

                                                             

                                                            3) While I now understand that Embedding only includes fonts used by the doc, does it pull from ALL the font locations "registered" in the font-locations menu (shown below) or do I have to somehow point it to one? Moreover, will it pull from an OSX library even though I'm running this in Classic, and have I done any harm or good by adding this?

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            Picture 8.png



                                                            Next, I apologize as this may have been addressed, but do I need to also select a library from the final drop-down menu on the Fonts tab in Job options (shown below) . . . or is this ONLY for use in setting the Embed Always/Never parameter?


                                                            Picture 4.png

                                                             

                                                            4) Per your suggestion, I set the job to cancel when embedding fails with no apparent snags, so I guess that bodes well. And I disabled "Process DSC Comments." Below is a screen capture of both the results of a trial and the first level of all my setting panes. Hopefully all looks good. Some questions here too however.

                                                             

                                                            Does disabling DSC change the results of the job in any way or just what's reported about it? I did a little reading, and at least one article advised AGAINST disabling DSC comments saying that it was needed for some important information including data on origination application, page orientation, and beginning and ending statements for the prologue.ps (and epilogue.ps?).

                                                             

                                                            I should note that I am having some trouble with the PDFs opening on my NEWER Mac. When I set to open with Preview, the security filters stop me saying that they don't recognize the app. I may have some workarounds but it's all a bit dodgy. Could this have anything to do with removing the DSC comments? All seems to work fine with Acrobat as the reader, but as mentioned, I can't quite get proper results out of that app.

                                                             

                                                            5) What are pro- and epilogue.ps files, and do I need them? Note that they are currently not included. Is that correct?

                                                             

                                                            6) Should I allow my PS file to override my job options? Currently I do not.

                                                             

                                                            Screen captures are as follows:

                                                             

                                                            TEST FILE RESULTS

                                                            Picture 1.png




                                                            PREFERENCES

                                                            Picture 7.png

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            FONT LOCATIONS

                                                            Picture 8.png

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            WATCHED FOLDERS

                                                            Picture 9.png




                                                            JOB OPTIONS

                                                            Picture 2.png

                                                            Picture 3.png

                                                            Picture 4.png

                                                            Picture 5.png

                                                            Picture 6.png

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            SECURITY

                                                            Picture 10.png

                                                            • 27. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                                              Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

                                                              1 Pulls fonts from all folders (searched in order)

                                                              2 The "library" is base 14 fonts etc? This is confusing. It is just used to get a list of fonts you COULD add to the always or never embed lists. What you select has no oher effect.

                                                              4 Yes the DSC thing could change the result because it could cause bits to be skipped. Best to leave it off and forget it.

                                                              5 Ignore prologue and epilogue.ps, only for advanced special purposes

                                                              6 Not relevant, it won't try to override.

                                                              Rest all looks fine. Probably worth focussing on your problem PDF. Not completely clear, which app & version shows it well, and which app & version shows it bad?

                                                              • 28. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                                                res259 Level 1

                                                                Apologies for making you repeat yourself, but just want to make sure I am following properly in a few places . . .

                                                                 

                                                                1) So it's the fonts in Settings > Font Locations that Distiller pulls from, NOT those in Settings > Job Options > Fonts Pane, and are fonts from the OS X environment available to Distiller running in Classic and useful to add?

                                                                 

                                                                2) Further, you're saying that the font libraries listed in the drop down menu at the bottom of Settings > Job Options > Fonts Pane are SOLELY for the Embed Always/Never feature and have no bearing on other aspects of the job?

                                                                 

                                                                3) When you say that PS won't override Distiller, do you mean regardless of how I set that parameter, or do I need to either select or deselect?

                                                                 

                                                                4) As for the problems with printing, let me try to clarify: I can make the PDF with distiller no problem. When I open it and print using Preview, results are good. When I open it using any version of Reader, and print, the output displays larger margins and compressed leading and kerning. In both cases, the screen images appear to be fine; it only seems to effect the printouts.

                                                                 

                                                                I know you said Preview as not a good app, but if it's displaying and printing the files correctly, is it TERRIBLE to make it my default for these particular files? Alternatively, any idea why Acrobat Reader might be behaving this way? Seems strange given the the file was authored with Distiller, an Adobe product.

                                                                • 29. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                                                  res259 Level 1

                                                                  Hey, hey, I figured out the printing problem, and it was SO obvious. Well, at least after exploring the precise nature of the glitch so I could better describe . . . the fact that I only seemed to be having the problem when PRINTING from Reader led me to review my print options. There, in the first pane, Page Scaling was set to Shrink to Printable Area. I reset this to None and, voila, THAT problem solved! If you can just confirm for me on those other three points, I'd say we're there, and I can't thank you enough for your help and support. You really did a good deed!

                                                                   

                                                                  Screen Shot 2014-11-17 at 9.15.55 PM.png

                                                                  • 30. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                                                    Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

                                                                    "3) When you say that PS won't override Distiller, do you mean regardless of how I set that parameter, or do I need to either select or deselect?"

                                                                     

                                                                    I mean that PageMaker won't try to do this. So far as I know.

                                                                     

                                                                    I see you've solved 4. Wasn't at all what I thought you were describing, I thought you meant the font spacing/shapes were wrong.

                                                                    • 31. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                                                      Jay Chevako Level 3

                                                                      res259 wrote:

                                                                       

                                                                      Hey Jay,

                                                                       

                                                                      Kind of hit a dead end here, but I'll just follow up with you on your one point. For files where the layout is really not important, I've been copying them into Word as this seems a less fussy format to update going forward. I checked, and I can save copies of these files as RTFs if I want, but could you just tell me what an RTF file is and why I want to do that?

                                                                       

                                                                      Thanks for the ongoing help and support!

                                                                      Six of one, half a dozen of the other. I never had Word on my computer, so I used PM's export to rtf feature. Rtf is just a generic word processing file that will allow a bit more formatting than a .txt file.
                                                                      Jay

                                                                      • 32. Re: Trouble Making PDFs from PageMaker 7.0
                                                                        res259 Level 1

                                                                        On the outside chance PageMaker MIGHT try to override, should I deselect this?  Also could you just clarify on points 1 - 3 below? Thanks so much.

                                                                         

                                                                        1) So are you saying it's the fonts in SETTINGS > FONT LOCATIONS (Fig. A below) that Distiller pulls from, NOT those in SETTINGS > JOB OPTIONS > FONTS PANE (Fig. B below)?


                                                                        2) I added fonts from my OS X environment, but are they available to Distiller running in Classic and useful to include, or should I remove them?


                                                                        3) Lastly, are you saying that the font libraries listed in the drop down menu at the bottom of SETTINGS > JOB OPTIONS > FONTS PANE (Fig. B below) are SOLELY for the Embed Always/Never feature and have no bearing on other aspects of the job?


                                                                        (Fig. A) SETTINGS > FONT LOCATIONS

                                                                        Picture 8.png



                                                                        (Fig. B) SETTINGS > JOB OPTIONS > FONTS PANE

                                                                        Picture 4.png