11 Replies Latest reply on Nov 13, 2014 6:55 AM by charleskoz

    Confused about object style override I cannot figure out

    charleskoz

      Hi there,

       

      So I'm trying to figure out and clean up a somewhat messy book I inherited (lots of inconsistent styling and overrides). There are a bunch of inset boxes that have an object style applied to them but seem to have odd overrides, which I cannot figure out how even got applied.

       

      In particular, they have an override of "Text Frame General Options (Inset Spacing Left; Inset Spacing Right". I cannot figure out how you can even override the object style for this.

       

      Even more oddly, the paragraph style has a right indent of .0625" and left indent of 0, but on the screen I can see the left indent is also .0625". Even though it is not specified anywhere.

       

      Inside the style, the inset spacing is .25" left and 0.25" right, and that's actually how the text is lined up. But it appears from the lines on the screens as if there is a left and right inset of 0.1875" and a paragraph indent of 0.0625 on both sides, when the styles don't say that.

       

      Why do I care about any of this? Well, I need to convert this to CS6, and when I did that, I found an extra .0625" of indent on the right side which caused overset text. This led me down this rabbit hole.

       

      I know I should get rid of all the overrides completely and I plan to do that at some point, but I can't do it right now for time reasons, and I'm also actually really curious what is happening here. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks.

        • 1. Re: Confused about object style override I cannot figure out
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          I think we need some screen shots of a frame with edges showing and a paragraph highlighted so we can see the type slug, the definition dialog for the object style and paragraph style.

          • 2. Re: Confused about object style override I cannot figure out
            charleskoz Level 1

            Hi Peter,

             

            Yeah I thought that might be necessary, sorry.

             

            Okay, here's a sample from CC2014:

             

            id1.png

             

            The inset space of the text is 0.1875", and there's a further 0.0625" indent left and right inside the text box... even though the paragraph style only has that 0.0625" indent on the right.

             

            Here's how it looks in CS6 (converted by saving to IDML):

             

            id2.png

             

            You can see the right indent is now twice as wide, causing overset text, which is what caused me to start investigating. But the styles are all the same.... I checked over and over, they got imported identically.

             

            Back to CC2014. Here's the overrides on the object style. I don't even know how I could set an override for the inset spacing left and right, because when I bring up Text Frame Options, the Inset options are locked so only a single value can be selected.. and it is showing 0.1875" everywhere.

             

            id3.png

            Here's the object style showing the text frame options:

             

            id4.png

             

            And the paragraph style:

             

            id5.png

            Again, these are all the same in CS6, it just looks different.

             

            It gets weirder: if I want to try to remove the overrides from this box in CC2014, it takes three presses of Alt-Click to get rid of them.. and yet the bogus paragraph indenting is still there!

             

            Now let's say instead I open the file, and open the text frame options (Ctrl-B). I click to reduce the (single, locked) inset value to 0.125" and then raise it back up to 0.1875". Which means the same value it started with. And then hit OK. Suddenly the box is behaving the way you would expect, without the extra paragraph indentation:

             

            id6.png

             

            As you can see the 0.1875" inset is still there but there's only a 0.0625" indent on the right.

             

            I hope this is enough to explain the issue. I'm leaning towards "it is just messed up" but if there's an actual valid InDesign mechanism at work here that I just don't understand, please let me know.

            • 3. Re: Confused about object style override I cannot figure out
              charleskoz Level 1

              One more thing: changing the left and right inset values in the object style from 0.25" to 0.1875" has no effect on the box at all. Presumably because of the overrides I can't seem to access or figure out.

              • 4. Re: Confused about object style override I cannot figure out
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                I think we need to see the whole progression with style override indicators at each step because I'm still confused and I have no idea what styles are supposed to be applied and what overrides have been applied other than it looks like the frame insets were manually overridden and a different paragraph style from the one in the definition (which we don't know) is being used.

                • 5. Re: Confused about object style override I cannot figure out
                  charleskoz Level 1

                  I can understand your confusion, but I didn't create this so I have no idea what the progression was. I'll try to ask the guy who did it if he can shed any insight onto this.

                   

                  How *do* you manually override the frame insets? That would be a good start. When I use Ctrl+B it only lets me set one value for all sides.

                   

                  I appreciate your help though it may not be worth either of our time to figure this out, and rather I should just clear all this junk and start over with clean styles.

                  • 6. Re: Confused about object style override I cannot figure out
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    I meant you should show us what those things are when you start, and as you work to clear it up.

                     

                    To set individual insets, click the chainlink button to break the link.

                    • 7. Re: Confused about object style override I cannot figure out
                      charleskoz Level 1

                      That's the thing, it won't let me click it.

                       

                      I've already shown the styles and described what happens when I try to clear the overrides.. at this point I think I'm just going to have to give up as it's not worth spending hours on screenshots and so forth and I still don't think I can make it clear. I think there's some sort of mess up in the file.

                       

                      Thanks for the replies anyway.

                      • 8. Re: Confused about object style override I cannot figure out
                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                        You haven't shown us complete info. You showed us that the object style is overridden, but not what the actual paragraph style is that's in use, or the settings for the frame that are different from the style definition.

                         

                        Te oly reason I can think of that the insets can't be set individually is if there is an attribute that renders the frame non-rectangular (lacks square corners).

                        • 9. Re: Confused about object style override I cannot figure out
                          charleskoz Level 1

                          I showed the paragraph style, the indent tab, since the indents are the issue. I also showed those settings for the object style. I don't know what else you want short of me posting dozens of screenshots of every tab.

                           

                          This box does have rounded corners, but even when I remove them, the Ctrl-B inset box still has the chain grayed out. Even with no overrides and no rounded corners, it is still grayed out.

                          • 10. Re: Confused about object style override I cannot figure out
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            You showed a paragraph style, but not necessarily the one that's actually being used. I have no way of knowing what the object style definition calls for (but I see an override for the paragraph style), nor what style is assigned to the text in that frame.

                             

                            Messed up is probably a good description of the current state, but to figure out what is wrong you need to dig into what is really set as opposed to what the styles call for, then either remove the overrides or redefine the styles to give you what you want, or most likely some of both.

                             

                            You can use Find/Change to find a style and replace it with itself to remove overrides, as I recall.

                            • 11. Re: Confused about object style override I cannot figure out
                              charleskoz Level 1

                              The object style references "[No Paragraph Style]". It appears he layered the actual paragraph style over top as an override. Maybe that's what's causing the problem.

                               

                              It's a mess. I'm just going to give up trying to figure this out and clean it up properly. Thanks for your time, I'm sorry I wasn't able to provide the necessary information, this program is new to me as well.