20 Replies Latest reply on Nov 24, 2014 7:17 AM by [Jongware]

    Prime Unicode &x2032; missing

    Satgates

      Hi,

       

      I am working on the XML first workflow in InDesign. The unicode number for the real Prime number is &x2032; and is showing like the missing character instead of prime symbol while import into the InDesign. Refer the screenshot below.

       

      Screen Shot 2014-11-20 at 5.42.48 pm.png

       

      Kindly check and advise.

       

      Thanks

      Satish

        • 1. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          I've moved your question from feature requests to the general discussions forum for InDesign.

           

          The missing glyph indicator probably means you's specified a font that actually does not have a glyph at that position -- not all fonts do. Which particular font have you chosen?

          • 2. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
            Satgates Level 1

            Thanks for move this query to general discussion.

             

            Getting the same output when I used the Helvetica LT STD Roman and Times LT STD Roman fonts.

             

            Thanks

            Satish

            • 3. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
              [Jongware] Most Valuable Participant

              So? You found another two fonts that "do not have a glyph at that position -- not all fonts do"  (my emphasis on Peter's remark above, as you appear to have missed that). Try some more fonts.

              • 4. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
                Satgates Level 1

                I have tested more than fifteen fonts and getting the same error.

                • 5. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                  It appears not to be a commonly included glyph.

                   

                  Ive found it in Arial, Calibri, Cambria, Century Gothic, Courier New, Franklin Gothic, Tahoma, Times New Roman (the version installed with Windows, not the TNR MT Std) and Trebuchet, but none of the OTF fonts I checked from Adobe or Linotype.

                  • 6. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
                    Ellis home Level 4

                    Interesting that not many fonts include the Prime glyph. When needed I guess people use the right single quotation like in 24', which at regular text size is not noticeable. Probably for display at big sizes you can tell the difference.

                    • 7. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
                      Satgates Level 1

                      Can I start use the single quote instead of prime symbol?

                      • 8. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
                        [Jongware] Most Valuable Participant

                        Using a script to check the character maps of TrueType/OpenType fonts, I found the following on my system:

                         

                        Archivo Narrow, Arial, Arno Pro, Berling Antiqua, Book Antiqua, Bookman Old Style, Brill, Calibri, Cambria, Century, Century Gothic, Century Schoolbook, Comic Sans MS, Consolas, Monotype Corsiva, Courier New, Crews, Doulos SIL, Franklin Gothic Book, Franklin Gothic Demi, Franklin Gothic Demi Cond, Franklin Gothic Heavy, Franklin Gothic Medium, Franklin Gothic Medium Cond, Frutiger Linotype, Garamond, Gardiner, Georgia, Haettenschweiler, Impact, Lucida Math Std, Lucida Sans, Lucida Sans Typewriter, Lucida Sans Unicode, Microsoft PhagsPa, Microsoft Sans Serif, Minion Phonetic Pro, Mistral, MS Reference Sans Serif, Open Sans, Palatino Linotype, Segoe Print, Segoe Script, Segoe UI, Segoe UI Symbol, Source Sans Pro, Sylfaen, Tahoma, Times New Roman, Trebuchet MS, Verdana, ZX Spectrum

                         

                        -- after these, it started to check the Chinese/Japanese/various fonts, which usually have *huge* character maps and so it took too long and I stopped it. (But this includes Arno Pro!)

                         

                        Note that this list may include fonts that claim to have the Prime but in fact do not have a glyph assigned to it (which is, I believe, valid), or where the glyph does not form a Prime but something else. No way to check apart from drawing the character and inspecting it by eye.

                         

                        Conspicuously missing from this list is bog old standard "Symbol", as it has a really old fashioned character map that doesn't contain Unicode assignments at all.

                         

                        Also missing: my old set of PostScript fonts (but, given the usually very small character complements, little chance they would contain a prime).

                         

                        Finally, my script only checked fonts with a certain configuration of the used encoding and character map. There are 4 major encodings, and each one has lots of sub-types. I checked "Unicode" tables only. Also, there are 11 different binary formats for the cmap table, but two are "common" and these are the ones I checked (FYI, that would be formats 4 and 12).

                        • 9. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
                          Peter Kahrel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          > Using a script to check the character maps of TrueType/OpenType fonts

                           

                          Interesting! Mind sharing the code to check if a character exists in a font?

                          • 10. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
                            [Jongware] Most Valuable Participant

                            Peter Kahrel wrote:

                             

                            > Using a script to check the character maps of TrueType/OpenType fonts

                             

                            Interesting! Mind sharing the code to check if a character exists in a font?

                             

                            It's a work-in-progress, hence the caveats. It's also rather slow to check *all* fonts (at home on my Mac I simply use UnicodeChecker, a great free utility: UnicodeChecker – Explore and convert Unicode – earthlingsoft). I'm still also not sure what it would be useful for -- what would you do with it?

                            • 11. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
                              Peter Kahrel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              > what would you do with it?

                               

                              Well, as you know, I use a script to insert a letter with some accent. If a character doesn't exist in the current font, it combines (tries to, anyway) the letter and the floating accent. The check if a character exists in a font is an ugly workaround: enter the character, convert it to outlines. If that works, the character is in the font, so undo the conversion and you're done; if it didn't work, delete the outline and insert the letter and the floating accent, then kern the accent over the letter. Ugh.

                              • 12. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
                                Ellis home Level 4

                                "Can I start use the single quote instead of prime symbol?"

                                Purists will cringe at that thought. I don't know. What type of document are you preparing? Who is your intended audience? Can't you use one the fonts listed by Jongware?

                                • 13. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
                                  Peter Kahrel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  Another possibility is this:

                                   

                                  - type a straight single quote

                                  - convert it to outlines

                                  - in the Transform panel, rotate the thing a bit.

                                   

                                  In most fonts the italics angle is -11 degrees, so you could start with 

                                  that. If that doesn't sit well with the surrounding type, try different 

                                  angles.

                                  • 14. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
                                    [Jongware] Most Valuable Participant

                                    Peter Kahrel wrote:

                                     

                                    > what would you do with it?

                                     

                                    Well, as you know, I use a script to insert a letter with some accent. If a character doesn't exist in the current font, it combines (tries to, anyway) the letter and the floating accent. The check if a character exists in a font is an ugly workaround: enter the character, convert it to outlines. If that works, the character is in the font, so undo the conversion and you're done; if it didn't work, delete the outline and insert the letter and the floating accent, then kern the accent over the letter. Ugh.

                                     

                                    Ah of course! I use that script about 100 times a day, so a belated thank you!

                                     

                                    Unfortunately, grabbing the cmaps out of a file is way, way too slow to use in an interactive dialog. It takes about 5 seconds for a simple font of about 200 characters, and for something like Calibri or Arial (which each have several thousands of characters) it takes more than 10 seconds.

                                     

                                    There are also lots of font types that I cannot support -- aforementioned Type 1 PostScript fonts, but also TrueType collections (TTC), which may have several font definitions in a single file (which makes it nigh on impossible to find the 'proper' one), and, on my Mac, .dfont and Ye Really Old system fonts such as Bourdeax Roman Bold, which store all of their information in the longly-deprecated Resource Fork, which is inaccessible through Javascript.

                                     

                                    On the plus side, I really enjoy seeing character listings such as this one, in Calibri:

                                     

                                    Screen Shot 2014-11-22 at 2.13.27 AM.png

                                    • 15. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
                                      Peter Kahrel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      O, ok, makes sense, thanks anyway. I'll stick to the ugly method then.

                                      • 16. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
                                        Migintosh Level 4

                                        Wouldn't it be better to type one character into a text frame and rotate the frame, rather than converting to outlines? Might be a better choice to keep the type live.

                                        • 18. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
                                          [Jongware] Most Valuable Participant

                                          For a simple slanted prime, no need to convert to outlines as there is a "skew" option in the Character Panel. You can put this in a character style and then have it apply automatically through a GREP style.

                                           

                                          But wait ... if you are going to use GREP styles anyway, it's enough to find one (only 1!) font which has a proper prime (preferably using the same generic font design as the rest of the text) and apply that to primes only through a GREP style.

                                           

                                          See my list for fonts that do contain the prime; based on the image in the original post, I'd suggest Times New Roman.

                                          • 19. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
                                            Ellis home Level 4

                                            Or add the the prime glyph with your own IndyFont?

                                            • 20. Re: Prime Unicode &x2032; missing
                                              [Jongware] Most Valuable Participant

                                              Ellis home wrote:

                                               

                                              Or add the the prime glyph with your own IndyFont?

                                               

                                              That would only work ("add") if the entire font was created with IndyFont. If you make a 1-character font that just holds the prime, you'd still need a GREP style to assign it to the primes -- and then you might as well use an existing prime.