17 Replies Latest reply on Dec 3, 2014 12:19 PM by illini19

    Old rig issues/New rig Build

    illini19 Level 1

      Built our NLE rig in 2009 with the following using at the time PP CS6 then PP CC and now PP CC 2014:


      -Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

      -LIAN LI PC-A77B Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case

      -ASUS P6T7 WS Supercomputer 3Way SLI + PhysX at Real X16 X58 CEB Intel Motherboard

      -Intel Core i7-950 Bloomfield 3.06GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core

      -EVGA 017-P3-1294-AR GeForce GTX 295 1792MB 896 Bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16

      -CORSAIR Vengeance 24GB (6 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600

      -2 x Pioneer Black 8X Blu-Ray DVD Burner w/ Software SATA BDR-203BKS

      - Noctua NH-U12P SE1366 120mm SSO CPU Cooler

      - Western Digital WD VelociRaptor WD3000HLFS 300GB 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s

      - 4 x Western Digital WD Black WD1001FALS 1TB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s

      - CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-1000HX 1000W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI CrossFire 80 PLUS

      - Blackmagic Design DECKLINK HD X-TREME 3

      - 2 x Dell Ultrasharp 2408WFP

      - Panasonic 17" BT-LH1710


      Rig was fine for all these years and for some reason the export times have been slow this year. Very slow. Nothing changed in the system. We even wiped the entire system and started from scratch and even rolled back the Nvidia drivers and the times still are not good. PP is having issues somewhere. Ran intel processor test. Fine. Took out the 24GB of RAM and put in the older 12GB CORSAIR XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600...not the issue. The only thing I can think of is the GTX 295 but ran tests on it in 3dMark (variosu versions) and great results. Updated the drivers. Same. Older drivers, same. Ran PPBM6 and here are the results (for comparison I ran on my Dell Precision M6700 with Intel Core i7-3740QM, Quadro K4000M and 8 GB of RAM).

      with 24GB of RAM on regualr rig

      24gb RAM.jpg


      with 12GB of RAM on regualr rig

      12gb RAM.jpg


      On Dell M6700 using PP CC



      No speed records with any as you can see. We are planning to build a new rig in March but really want to try to figure out what the issue is with this rig becasue in theory it should still be doing well....or maybe not.



        • 1. Re: Old rig issues/New rig Build
          Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Your 12 GB on regular rig numbers are evidently the result of a mistake on your part.


          Just for comparison of the laptop score here are my laptop scores.





          1. Disk I/0 time = Slow hard disk performance.
          2. H.264 timeline = ridiculous result. should possibly be in the 300 to 500 range .
          3. MPEG2-DVD test = the 1003 seconds for the CPU only shows not very good CPU performance for your i7-950, have you tuned this system?  With that GPU 42 seconds is reasonable.  Of course overclocking slightly will improve perfromance

          Did you ever clean up and defrag the disk drives.  I suspect that your boot drive has grown immensely in size over the years slowing down performance significantlhy.   Get rid of garbage

          • 2. Re: Old rig issues/New rig Build
            illini19 Level 1

            Bill thanks for the response. Unfortunately no errors done in the testing. Ran it many times. The system used to be fine and nothing else is on it but CC Suite. The only thing on the C: drive (- Western Digital WD VelociRaptor WD3000HLFS 300GB 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s) is the OS (Windows 7), which we have wiped completely out and formated and reinstalled the OS. The other 4 drives are Projects, Photos, Audio, Final Projects. Once a project is completed it's moved to external drives.


            I'm willing to try anything.

            • 3. Re: Old rig issues/New rig Build
              Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Boy, that H.264 timeline export number is really weird.  Have you run any memory diagnostics?.  I have the same motherboard and while I have a four SSD RAID 0 and much newer GPU here are my scores as in the Output.csv file


              "27", "88","25","501", Premiere Version:,   GTX 780 SC


              The sequence is: Disk, H.264, MPEG with GPU, and MPEG w/o GPU.  This is with an i7-980X overclocked to 4.2 GHz with 24 GB of RAM.


              What is your Premiere version?  I see you ran the PPBM8 script, so I am guessing that you really had Premiere 8......


              It looks like your GPU while it is an older model is functioning properly on the lower resolution AVCHD  to DVD conversion,  I am wondering if it is having a problem because of the much more complex H.264 timeline which includes some 4K media.  Run that timeline with CPU only and see if we can eliminate the GPU (not part of our regular testing).

              • 4. Re: Old rig issues/New rig Build
                illini19 Level 1

                Will run some more tests on it and see what we can come up with. It's really odd. I know it's a bit older but still shouldn't be running that bad. Watching that h.264 test run is mind-boggling. Yes we are running PP CC 2014 on the rig. It's very odd.


                We will be building a new rig in March but I'd like to get this thing running well again so we can use as another bay.


                Just have to keep testing and try to figure out what the issue is. I originally thought it was just hte GPU but the CPU score, albeit an orlder i7-950, is not good either.

                • 5. Re: Old rig issues/New rig Build
                  Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  PP CC 2014 is not a version number, there are two major versions 8.0 and 8.1 and there can be released sub-versions under that. 


                  The highest number for the H.264 test ever recorded on our PPBM6 ,7 or 8 is 720 seconds and that was an old QX6850 processor.


                  On my ASUS P6T7 WS Supercomputer when I run the H.264 timeline without GPU hardware acceleration It is only about 900 seconds yours of course possibly should be about double that.

                  • 6. Re: Old rig issues/New rig Build
                    illini19 Level 1

                    Thanks Bill for the responses. I'll run again tomorrow when I get back in the office and try to figure out what is going on with it.


                    We are runnning PP on the rig at work and I updated on my laptop and ran the test (PPBM8) to see if it improved over 7.


                    On Dell M6700 (Core i7-3740QM, Quadro K4000M and 8 GB of RAM) using PP


                    But the laptop is not the issue. It's our rig. I'll get back at it tomorrow and run some more tests and go from there. If I need to, I'll start from scratch and wipe the OS and format the C: drive again and reinstall everything fresh. I still think it's a GPU issue but don't know for sure. The card seems to be working well in every other test but it is older. Perhaps if all else fails, we upgrade the card to the 650 or newer just to get that thing a little more up to date before we build the new rig in March.

                    • 7. Re: Old rig issues/New rig Build
                      illini19 Level 1

                      So decided to change the GPU from our GeForce GTX295 to the GTX780 (which we got a pretty good deal on) and ran the test again and here are the results runnning PP


                      GeForce GTX 295



                      GeForce GTX 780



                      Better h.264 obviously but the Disk I/O time is not great. As I mentioned we have 5 drives. The software runs off the C drive and everything else runs off the other 4. I exported everything to the project drive that has nothing on it at the moment except for PPBM.


                      So that's where I am. Any thoughts?

                      • 8. Re: Old rig issues/New rig Build
                        Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Do you have compression turned off on your disks?


                        How many processes are are you running (Task Manager) before you open Premiere?

                        • 9. Re: Old rig issues/New rig Build
                          illini19 Level 1

                          Compression is off on all the drives


                          And processes, nothing crazy running before PP is launched


                          • 10. Re: Old rig issues/New rig Build
                            RjL190365 Level 4

                            There are two things that I can determine from your scores:


                            1) Your Western Digital 1TB Blacks are like one of the very earliest revisions ever made. They are outdated and slow by current standards: I had a WD1001FALS, and it never delivered a sequential read speed higher than about 106 MB/s even on the outer tracks to begin with. Thus, your disk I/O results are typical for that particular model of drive.


                            2) Your GTX 295 was on the verge of failure. I suspect that one or both of the GPUs might have had overheated at some point in time without you even knowing it.

                            • 11. Re: Old rig issues/New rig Build
                              JFPhoton Level 3

                              Not Bill here....but, now that you have a better GPU, you should DEFINITELY be able to coax MUCH better performance from your existing system with a few "tweaks' and changes.  Although a little old....your setup is STILL powerful and without much cost, can be DRASTICALLY improved.


                              Consider CLONING image of existing  OS drive to NEW SATA III QUALITY SSD !!...( or, new fresh install of OS and programs ONLY). You should ONLY consider the Samsung 850 Pro model,or, the near equal ,but, CHEAPER Crucial M550 model. You don't need the largest, most expensive sizes here...a 256GB model is FINE....and they are on SALE now!  You will gain performance OVER the existing velociraptor due to lower latencies AND higher read and write speeds. Although the OS drive primarily is READ from....there are MANY write operations going concerning PPro and the Windows page file....which MUST be on your "C" drive with Windows 8.1.....which is the BEST performing OS for PPro in combination with all the new improvements of the newest CC2014 PPro versions. The read and write speed of over 500 MB/sec. combined with lower latency will make everything more "snappy" on this machine.


                              Try and achieve a reasonable overclock to your CPU....many users have easily achieved with your CPU a steady 4 Ghz on air cooling......with water 4.2 to 4.5.....you may not want to go that far,but, 4 Ghz is a significant speed increase over the BASE frequency of 3.06Ghz.... that equates to a possible 30% increase in CPU performance while editing !!


                              BIGGEST IMPROVEMENT : your storage DRIVE setup !!! All your testing has revealed  a CONSISTENTLY low disk speed.....BOTTLENECKING your performance. Bill and I, on our LAPTOPS are getting better disk transfer speeds....because we are using fast SATA III SSDs!! All those individual,separate hard drives are running at a SLOW SPEED !!....each one is subject to "fill degradation", where the transfer speed gets REDUCED by 50% as each disk gets near full...AND the need to constantly DEFRAG them to lessen bad performance.

                              In this area ,you have several options to drastically improve your performance :


                              1. Add a large,( though expensive) , Crucial M550 SSD to be your "D" drive....holding media files, project files,previews, cache files, and media cache files. This would speed things up dramatically. However, an SSD like that may still be TOO SMALL...not enough capacity. So, you could load onto that SSD ONLY "ACTIVE" things you are working on...using it a high speed "working" drive. When you are done with a project, archive the media and project files onto your old larger capacity HDDs.....you won't need to save previews or any cache files, which PPro  recreates, if needed.


                              2.You could take your 4 existing HDDs, and RAID 0 them off the motherboard...the read write performance should NOW reach about 500MB/sec.....a DRAMATIC increase from what you have NOW!!...PLUS 4GB of capacity !! On this array, you just would put EVERYTHING.

                              HOWEVER, there is a MAJOR CAVEAT. If ANY drive fails...you IMMEDIATELY lose all your data...ugh !!    BUT...WAIT !!!!!!.....THERE'S MORE !!!  You can easily solve this problem by buying a 4TB Seagate "enterprise" level  7200rpm RPM HDD to RELIGIOUSLY back up the entire contents of that RAID array !! The enterprise level drive has over a 200MB/sec. transfer rate because of a 128GB cache...it is not too expensive, and is reliable, with a 5 year warranty !!


                              So, in conclusion, you can transform this existing machine into a MUCH better editing machine by : overclocking CPU, replacing OS drive with Crucial 256GB SATA III SSD, creating a 4 drive RAID 0 from your existing HDDs directly on motherboard, and installing a 4TB enterprise level BACKUP DRIVE for the new 4 TB RAID array.......good luck !

                              • 12. Re: Old rig issues/New rig Build
                                Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Thanks Guys!  Great advice.


                                There is one more experiment that you should try.  Get disable of the BlackMagic hardware/software and see if is having any effects,  I guess the H.264 14511 problem might have been complicated by it.  Did you update the BM drivers as you upgraded Premiere? 

                                • 13. Re: Old rig issues/New rig Build
                                  illini19 Level 1

                                  Thanks guys...great informaton. Will take it all in and tweak here and there.


                                  - Tried to overclock the CPU a while ago to 4 ghz. Read up on how to do it and tried a couple different things and could never get it stable so I stopped messing with it. I'm sure I was doing something wrong. I hear it's a lot easier to do now with the newer mobos. I'll give it a go again and see what I can come up with.


                                  - The drives are 5 years old and my any standards as we know is OLD. Thought about RAID them but were always worried about losing projects. Even though we have many external drives that hold all the completed projects, still was never comfortable doing it. Although, I may be now. Getting four (even three) SSD's might be too pricey since we are going to be building a new system in March anyway.


                                  - I do like the idea of getting one SSD for the C drive replacing the velociraptor running just the OS and programs. Then RAID the four WD's, altough they are pretty old and who knows how much more they can take.


                                  Let me start with the OC and see where we go from there. Really appreciate it all. Great suggestions. Now to figure out this OC :-)

                                  • 14. Re: Old rig issues/New rig Build
                                    illini19 Level 1

                                    Bill, I did. We are running Decklink HD Extreme drivers 10.3. They just released 10.3.1 but have not updated yet.


                                    I'll try disabling and see what happensbut really never had issues with the BM card.


                                    All great suggestions!

                                    • 15. Re: Old rig issues/New rig Build
                                      JFPhoton Level 3

                                      .....just for ha-has......New Egg,or, maybe Tiger Direct and B&H are selling the 1TB consumer Seagate HDD for $44 !!! So, you COULD create a FASTER 4 disk RAID0 with all new and faster individual drives for only $176 !! The KEY to THAT of course,would be making sure you had that "enterprise level" backup drive, as well.


                                      Even though your X58 system is a few years old, it is still powerful, and it would be a shame to give up on it.....considering your initial investment in it......the relatively MINOR cost of "tweaking" it up to its proper performance level seems like a good idea.


                                      A new Haswell E system is very enticing and alluring......especially if one is expecting to edit 4K and beyond,or, newer codecs coming out that are MORE compressed than current ones. However, Haswell E will be expensive !!!

                                      • 16. Re: Old rig issues/New rig Build
                                        JEShort01 Level 4

                                        Your drive indexing is turned on. Turn that OFF on all drives for best performance!



                                        • 17. Re: Old rig issues/New rig Build
                                          illini19 Level 1

                                          Well, I think I got the rig overclocked to run stable at 4ghz



                                          Turned off indexing on all the drives and ran PPBM once again.


                                          Disks still about the same. I guess that's the next step in replacing on this baby to get it more current.