16 Replies Latest reply on Nov 27, 2014 1:53 PM by Tanja2014

    I think LR 5.7 broke the Sony A6000 raw conversion

    Tanja2014 Level 2

      i installed LR 5.7 yesterday and today i was out shooting with my Sony A6000.

       

      back at home i noticed that the sky looked very ugly (like jpg compression, strange blocky artifacts).

      i was shooting with ISO 100 and did not see this before.

       

      so i opened older files from my A6000 and i see the same strange artifacts i did not notice before with LR 5.6.

        • 1. Re: I think LR 5.7 broke the Sony A6000 raw conversion
          Tanja2014 Level 2

          i hope you can see it here:

           

          http://i.imgur.com/8RvZinG.jpg

           

          as i said i never had such an ugly sky at ISO 100 before.

           

          normaly it should look like this:

           

          http://i.imgur.com/3Yjep7q.jpg

           

          what´s wrong here? is it me or is there something buggy with LR?

          • 2. Re: I think LR 5.7 broke the Sony A6000 raw conversion
            Tanja2014 Level 2

            nobody?

             

            i am the only one with this problem?

            • 3. Re: I think LR 5.7 broke the Sony A6000 raw conversion
              DdeGannes Level 5

              Maybe you could post a link to an original raw file (with .xmp sidecar) so someone can check to see it they can reproduce what you are seeing? I do not use the Sony A6000.

               

              Also could you give some info about your operating system and if any changes updates etc were done. Monito profile?

              • 4. Re: I think LR 5.7 broke the Sony A6000 raw conversion
                Tanja2014 Level 2

                nothing was changed except LR 5.6 -> 5.7

                 

                i have an intel i7 system with 24 GB ram running windows 7 64 bit, the monitor profil is the same as before.

                • 5. Re: I think LR 5.7 broke the Sony A6000 raw conversion
                  Tanja2014 Level 2

                  i think i come closer to figuring out what the reason for this is.

                   

                  5.7 is using the ADOBE STANDARD camera profile.

                  this profiles renders the ugly artifacts.

                   

                  when i change the camera profile to one of the camera specific profiles (neutral, landscape, vivid etc.) the ugly artifacts are gone.

                   

                  now i only wonder if the ADOBE STANDARD camera profile on 5.6 was that bad too.

                  i have no 5.6 installed anymore.

                   

                  but i think the ADOBE STANDARD camera profile should be better than the results i get?

                  i thought the camera profiles change the color rendition but not the raw demosaicing?!

                  • 6. Re: I think LR 5.7 broke the Sony A6000 raw conversion
                    ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    I don’t see blocky artefacts in one of the screenshots you’ve posted compared to the other.  I can see coarse, granular noise in both of them. 

                     

                    I second the suggestion to post a link to a raw file for others to test—use http://www.dropbox.com

                     

                    Now that you’ve discovered there is a difference between Adobe Standard and Camera-whatever you could post a side-by-side of the same photo with each profile—create a virtual copy of the photo and apply different profiles to the original and the copy.

                     

                    LR 5.7 would not be using any different profile compared to LR 5.6 unless you changed the LR defaults at the same time you changed LR versions.  Installing a new version of LR doesn’t change the defaults, only you can do that.

                    • 7. Re: I think LR 5.7 broke the Sony A6000 raw conversion
                      Tanja2014 Level 2

                      well but i guess you see a difference?

                       

                      if it´s not the right english word for the difference then please excuse.

                      the images are at 200% zoom to make it more visible.

                       

                       

                       

                      Now that you’ve discovered there is a difference between Adobe Standard and Camera-whatever you could post a side-by-side of the same photo with each profile—create a virtual copy of the photo and apply different profiles to the original and the copy.

                       

                       

                       

                      that would look like the images i have posted.

                       

                      i guess LR5.7 uses the adobe standard by default for my sony 6000 while i setup LR 5.6 to use camera standard by default.

                       

                      but why is adobe standard looking so ugly?.

                      • 8. Re: I think LR 5.7 broke the Sony A6000 raw conversion
                        Tanja2014 Level 2

                        http://i.imgur.com/qWWn9CW.jpg

                         

                        the adobe standard version looks much more "uneven".. like paint strokes.

                         

                        is this supposed to happen and i just did not notice this before?

                        i thought the camera profile would only change how colors are rendered.

                        • 9. Re: I think LR 5.7 broke the Sony A6000 raw conversion
                          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          The granular artifacts are there in both images, and are coming from your camera, I suspect.  With Adobe Standard there is a stronger contrast curve for the sky brightness/colors and that makes the artifacts more apparent.    Do you have a photo of blue sky where the only texture will be from the sensor, and not from the clouds?

                           

                          In any case, if you want to have Camera Standard set as your camera profile in LR 5.7 just go set it. 

                           

                           

                           

                          These defaults can be overridden by a Develop Preset applied at Import time, or can be changed.

                          To change the defaults in the Develop module:

                           

                          1.     Press the Reset button at the bottom of the right panel. This will adjust all controls to the current default settings.

                           

                          2.     Make any adjustments you wish to make to the defaults.

                           

                          3.     Press and hold the Alt/Option key, and note that the Reset button is now Set Default... Press it.

                          • 10. Re: I think LR 5.7 broke the Sony A6000 raw conversion
                            Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Those artifacts are just noise. It is clearly present in both images but simply more obvious in the Adobe standard image because the sky is rendered darker there and that makes your brain notice it more. It is not that surprising that even at base ISO you see noise in blue skies. That is actually pretty common if you look for it especially in high megapixel crop sensors.

                            • 11. Re: I think LR 5.7 broke the Sony A6000 raw conversion
                              Tanja2014 Level 2

                              that is possible ssprengle but when i enhance the contrast, or use a tonal contrast filter only on the "camera standard" image it still looks better then the "adobe standard" image.

                               

                              here i used a tonal contrast filter on both images to make it more apparent:

                               

                              http://i.imgur.com/i4K50pq.jpg

                               

                              i think there is clearly a difference in the noise pattern.

                              so my conclusion would be that the camera profile does not only change the color/contrast rendition.

                               

                              These defaults can be overridden by a Develop Preset applied at Import time, or can be changed.

                               

                              yes i know. i have done that with LR 5.6 i guess but forgot it when i installed 5.7.

                              • 12. Re: I think LR 5.7 broke the Sony A6000 raw conversion
                                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Blue is the least-bright channel on the raw sensor and therefore has the worst signal-to-noise ratio, and the blue color seems to be boosted higher on the Adobe Standard conversion—more blue and less of red or green, so the blue-noise, specifically, is shown stronger.   

                                 

                                I’m sure you can make the Camera Standard one as ugly as the Adobe Standard one is you crank up the Clarity on the Camera Standard one.

                                • 13. Re: I think LR 5.7 broke the Sony A6000 raw conversion
                                  Tanja2014 Level 2

                                  ssprengel schrieb:

                                   

                                  I’m sure you can make the Camera Standard one as ugly as the Adobe Standard one is you crank up the Clarity on the Camera Standard one.

                                   

                                  nope tried that.
                                  camera standard looks still much better.

                                   

                                   

                                  but i found what causes it.

                                  i use the BLUE and AQUAMARIN luminance sliders to darken the sky a bit.

                                   

                                  when i let them at 0, both adobe standard and camera standard look nearly identical from the noise pattern.

                                  like i would expect.

                                   

                                  but when i darken the sky with both luminance sliders and i then switch between "camera standard" and "adobe standard" the later gets worse.

                                  i just never noticed this before because with LR 5.6 and before i set the default profile to "camera standard".

                                   

                                  and you won´t notice any differnece as long as you don´t use the luminance sliders to darken the sky.

                                  i just checked with my nikon cameras and they behave the same.

                                  • 14. Re: I think LR 5.7 broke the Sony A6000 raw conversion
                                    ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Yeah, so Adobe Standard renders colors differently than Camera Standard (which is the purpose of different camera profiles), and if you change the colors and contrast settings enough you can accentuate the difference.

                                     

                                    I think you’ve analyzed the situation and there’s not much more to say other than LR 5.7 didn’t change anything with respect to your raw images, you did, and now that the differences have been discovered the differences can be explained.

                                    • 15. Re: I think LR 5.7 broke the Sony A6000 raw conversion
                                      Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      but when i darken the sky with both luminance sliders and i then switch between "camera standard" and "adobe standard" the later gets worse.

                                      i just never noticed this before because with LR 5.6 and before i set the default profile to "camera standard".

                                      That will do it for sure. What happens here is that the hue of the blue is slightly different between the two profiles and in one of the cases, the color of some pixels will fall outside of the hue range of the slider. This will cause you to amplify noise with those sliders. This is not really caused by the profile per se, but simply with the hue that the different profiles render the pixels at. You can minimize this type of thing using the smoothness slider in the detail section. Increasing it will have the effect of causing the sliders to apply more to a smoother range of colors because it will will decrease the noise in the pixel hue (chroma noise) in smooth areas to decrease.

                                      • 16. Re: I think LR 5.7 broke the Sony A6000 raw conversion
                                        Tanja2014 Level 2

                                        i did not expect to see such a big difference.  it´s sure something i will have an eye on in the future.