15 Replies Latest reply on Nov 30, 2014 6:53 PM by R Neil Haugen

    fast color correction in premiere pro

    clauderozsa Level 1

      Hi, I'm having a problem using Fast color correction with two different clips which show the same picture and are of different colors. here are the frames:

       

      This is the correct color; checking the white balance it's perfectly white when check with the front of the raft. Perhaps the saturation should be slightly modified but over all this is exactly what you see when arriving at Red Cavern (the name speaks for itself) on the Colorado.

      Claude view.jpg

      Here is the same shot taken at the same hour by a friend of mine who gave me some of his footage; everything is either white, pink or grey even the yellow raft on the left has not its true pure yellow which it is in reality:

      miilozs view.jpg

      Although taken at 20 years interval, the shots were done most probably at the same hour. The only difference being a more important set of trees due essentially to the level of water higher on my trip in 1995 than 2 years ago on my friend's one. The beach on the right side of mine being under water or having formed later. Of course the second shot is done with a digital camcorder which did not exist 20 years earlier.

      As one can see the reds are washed out  and do not correspond to reality. The footage is taken at the Red Cavern on the Colorado

      The problem is to correct the second footage to get the same reds as both footage cross dissolve from one to the other and that I  wish of course to be nearer as possible of the true colors. I can't check the white balance using Fast color correction on the second footage because there is no pure white visible anywhere. The sand at the base of the cavern or on its right is not white in reality as it consists of deposits either of mud from the river or sandstone of the cavern and the redwall above. Which effect would enable me to correct the second footage to approach as much as possible to the same color of the first one. Most probably FCC is not the right effect to choose.

      Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

      Claude

        • 1. Re: fast color correction in premiere pro
          g7sharp9 Level 1

          So, twenty years later can certainly amount for a ton of differences, including recording with tape and then digital - never mind what the sun has done to those rocks.

           

          Anyway, just because you can't do a white balance doesn't mean you can't fix it - that's what the color correction tools are for.  From the images sent, it looks like you need a bit more contrast on the 2nd image and also a little red and some saturation too.  The fcc is a great tool to use (along side the contrast and brightness) effect.  I use them all the time and it does a magnificent job.  You'll just have to mess around with it until you get it as close as you can to the first image.  Color correction is a trial and error. Even when you think you've got it, the final product never looks like it did in Premiere.  So mess around, try it, make changes, try it etc.  You'll make it match, it will just take time.

           

          Also, if you're looking for help with the color correction tools in general, I recommend going to Lynda.com and watch a few videos on color correction in Premiere.  They're extremely helpful.

           

          hth

          Will

          • 2. Re: fast color correction in premiere pro
            clauderozsa Level 1

            Thanks Will, I have some concerns about using the brightness contrast effect after having following the Andrew Denis tutorials from Creative Cow. I eventually thought there might be another effect more to the point. I've still a lot to learn with Premiere as I'm rather new with the software (6 months use). Well I'll try to mess with FCC or maybe the Three way color correction unless someone in the meantime has a brilliant idea coming from the very back of the universe!LOL! "l'espoir fait vivre " we say in French (hope makes you live!). Thanks anyway for your advices.

             

            Claude

            • 3. Re: fast color correction in premiere pro
              R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              If you're a CC subscriber, another idea is to direct link to SpeedGrade and give a whirl there ... that whole program is designed to work with the image "look", all color, contrast, and such, also with secondary's to work on specific shades & colors. Working with good scopes (a histogram is realistically not very useful in video corrections) is a huge plus ...

               

              Neil

              • 4. Re: fast color correction in premiere pro
                clauderozsa Level 1

                Hi Neil, Thanks for the advice, yes I've just installed SpeedGrade and follow different tutorials explaining its different uses. One thing bothers me is the fact that apparently when you transfer the clips any options used from the "new item" box in the project panel is not taken into account apparently, such as color mattes and black videos which I use rather often.

                 

                I suppose I should first take my original rushes, treat them first with speedgrade and color correct the shots concerned, then replace in my editing the clips extracted from these footages into my project. What do you think of this method of working not to mess all my previous work (inserts with name of rapids etc...). Anyway it would simplify my job as some 50%+ of my friend's video have the colors we see in the second picture. I know my colors at this part of the trip are correct by comparing with many clips on youtube and books of my own library and memories of my hikes. The grey and blackish colors appear much later downstream, they are the 2.5 billions years rocks resulting of compression of lava flows transforming them into what is called Vishnu Schist.

                 

                Yes I use the scopes, as I correct with the Color correction workspace to have both images in parallel one being the model to achieve colorwise. In this case in particular both shots are done practically at the same distance and the same hour; this second parameter being important because of the reflections of light from one wall of the canyon's gorge on the other. While I'll have found the correct set ups, I'll preset them and apply to the other shots and adjust to the particular case, that also will make my work quicker.

                 

                If I have understood up to now what I've heard about SpeedGrade, is that is deals essentially with color grading, while my first aim is to fully color correct those totally unrealistic colors of the first shot. Am I right?

                 

                Claude

                • 5. Re: fast color correction in premiere pro
                  clauderozsa Level 1

                  HI again, I think I got practically the right color; here is the result, tell me what you think. The very last I should correct is the sand on the foreground on the right; At first I thought it was part of the beach of the cavern but it is a huge recent deposit of a flood by comparing the different videos I have

                  in stock. I shortened mine to be nearer to the cavern.


                   

                  • 6. Re: fast color correction in premiere pro
                    JMonteras Level 1

                    With regards to your results. For me the on the new one has more yellows on the rocks. And the older one has more cyan or more blue. Plus the rocks in the new one is more saturated. But I'm not colourist, that's just my opinion.

                    • 7. Re: fast color correction in premiere pro
                      R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      I think that's about as nice as you can expect ... years apart, or even just hours apart with sun coming in a different angle on the same rocks (not even depending on any reflection changes!) can oft get massive shifts in "apparent" color. Which is ... real? Either, both, neither? It's actually one of the things that makes going back & shooting in the same place over & over interesting ... it's never EXACTLY the same ... or rarely so.

                       

                      Ahh, now we're almost into a discussion someone will moan about needing to be continued over on the Sg forum ... tee-hee.

                       

                      From your comment about transferring clips ... are you using an EDL process? When using "Direct Link" (the "direct to SpeedGrade" command) normally all the "stuff" from the PrPro project are included. There have been the odd instances where Sg doesn't "see" something, but ... I'm curious, I've not run into this for most anything I've done "direct". Either direct or EDL can work, but it does change your work-patterns a ton depending on which you choose.

                       

                      SpeedGrade is an amazing tool ... and is designed to give a very good basic correction and then allow one to step off the deep-end into stylin' your shots. Especially with the large collection of "legacy" clips you've got from your friend, that seem to be of a similar "look", you can correct those for basics (WB, dynamic range, blacks & whites, hue shifts) using a Primary or two or three and then a Secondary for the hue-shifts. Then save that as a "Look" and anytime you run more of those clips, you can just in a couple clicks throw that Look over top of them and have all your previous work on that footage done bang. Slick as all get out, and I think you'll love that part of it.

                       

                      Just a bit on my process that has come about since going so heavily into DL ... it used to be enough "work" to export an EDL, load things into Sg, then export out to re-import back into PrPro that like most I did pretty much to edit-lock & then to Sg. That is pretty much History ... it's so fast that when I start putting together a sequence for a new project I'll just throw a number of clips onto the timeline ... DL to Sg, do a Basic grade on them (especially if there's significant skin as I've got a GH3 and it naturally makes skin un-natural so I've a Look to recover skin-looking skin) and go back to PrPro. Now as I'm editing I've got a feel for how good a visual I'll get off that group of clips. Mostly finish my editing, with maybe an occasional minute or two over in Sg (quite literallly) doing something like making something a Master Clip so the other bits of that one get the same grade automatically). Before doing the final export out of PrPro I'll go to Sg and do the rest of the "style" work.

                       

                      Then back in PrPro thow on my titles & such, pop in any fixed audio from Audition, & out it goes.

                       

                      I do use some "adjustment layers" added to sequences in PrPro simply to use for additional grading layers to utilize in Sg over groups of clips or occasionally one if I'm doing enough I want to put it "up" on a different layer. Not always ... but sometimes.

                       

                      Pretty slick for the most part.

                       

                      Neil

                      • 8. Re: fast color correction in premiere pro
                        clauderozsa Level 1

                        Hi, every opinion is welcome and can be useful. Actually in reality it is very difficult as quite justly Neil says in his comment, to know what are the real colors; it is due first to the kind of sediments composing the cliff. We know that the cavern was part of an ocean and one can see inside thousands of fossils of sea creatures but we know too that a forest also was drowned into that sea and you can also see some fossils of leaves. If you combine those different origins the cavern"s inside has yellowish tones. Outside we are in what is the redwall which is as its name suggests mostly red. My friend must have had some problems with his white balance because not only this shot is washed out; this was the second day of his trip and the film is definitely very different from the previous and next day in colors. Marble Gorge before entering Granite gorge has absolutely no cold colors. But an other factor to modify the colors is the reflections from other rocks and the angle of the sun  depending of the time of the day. So obviously I had to make choices, the first one being to match those two shots and have a coherent continuity. I try to make a video which as a whole gives the impression to have been done on the same trip.

                         

                        To do this I decided to use Color Mattes, Yellow, Black and Sandstone. I derived Sandstone from my shot, color picking on the wall of the cavern and noting the code of the color, I obtained the one I used for the Sandstone color matte. Then in each matte I used the same mask to delimit the cavern from the water as precisely as possible and feather it. the combination of the three mattes and various level opacities of each one gave the final result.

                         

                        I completely agree with you that this is far from being perfect. But up to now this is my sole solution. I will now make tests using SG as suggested by Neil., but first I have to understand how it works! Also keep in mind that I'm just an amateur, not a professional doing this as one of my retirement pastime.

                        • 9. Re: fast color correction in premiere pro
                          clauderozsa Level 1

                          Thanks Neil for your comments and I could not more agree with you as i explain in my other answer to JobertM.

                           

                          As stated above I'm not a professional just an amateur who has been using cameras since the age of 14! (I'm now 73). I try to be organized in my editing but have no definite way of doing things. For this video I follow the schedule of the descent on the Colorado and use the river guide to make sure I do not mix shots and get rapids in the right order. It's not always obvious.

                          It happens just as far as my remarks on SG are concerned that I had just watched a video of a guy using an EDL process and from what you say I wont do that.

                           

                          I try to have names for my clips which give me information on their contents; for example here Raft2011 day 2B EndAtHarding Milozs means Milozs raft trip of 2011 second day ending at President Harding's rapid. From the river guide I know that this rapid precedes my own stop at Nankoweap rapid both being after the cavern. All my own trip clips begin by Raft95.

                           

                          I divide my work in main sequences (Intro and titles, flight from Paris to the river departure point, and then sequences concerning each day of the trip) They are all nested into a Master sequence which is the whole movie to be rendered. So I suppose that following your method is compatible with my way of editing. I use AE mainly to stabilize some of the shots mostly from my old Sony camera. For the analog film I have used a small software to create individual clips of each scene in the different reels. It helps me discard immediately the bad ones before I load them into the videos' bin. But as you say I fear we're entering into a discussion far from my initial question. As said above I'll try to understand how SG functions and make tests before deciding to switch to it for the whole project.

                           

                          Many thanks for your explanations and advice.

                          Claude

                          • 10. Re: fast color correction in premiere pro
                            R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Claude,

                             

                            So you're just over a decade above me ... we're still young enough, right? 

                             

                            SpeedGrade is an odd duck at first, but is incredibly quick and nifty once you start "seeing" it. Lynda-dot-com has a couple really good tuts on using it. Now that the trips tof/from PprPro are so slick it's well worth a bit of time learning. I'm also the most active person on the Sg forum btw ...

                             

                            Your workflow would be a perfect one for direct link. Also have you tried the Warp Stabilizer in PrPro? Once I started using that it cut down on the need for tripping to Ae for me quite a bit. And the multiple sequences nested into a master is a much better utilization of resources also. Good choices, you're doing fine.

                             

                            Neil

                            • 11. Re: fast color correction in premiere pro
                              clauderozsa Level 1

                              Neil, I have a problem using the stab in Premiere; it always gives me the message that my clip dimension are not compatible because not of the same length as my sequences? I don't understand. My sequence is a combination of clips they cant have the same length!

                              May be you can make me more intelligent on this aspect too!. Also I've got rather a stable grip with my camera (not on the raft for other obvious reasons!!!). My new Canon Legria HD is rather heavy and that is great to be stable (900g).

                              Anyway switching from AE to Pr is not a problem as I use also others features of AE like VideoCopilot for some of my titles or effects.

                               

                              If you wish to see my videos, please send me a private message and I'll give you the password.

                              • 12. Re: fast color correction in premiere pro
                                clauderozsa Level 1

                                Neil, I've just made a simple test with speedgrade and I must say it's really amazing here is the result after exporting back to Premiere! It took me exactly less than 5 minutes! It's of course a rough correction but it is already not far from what I was looking for. the problem is to find enough tutorials concerning Speedgrade CC as most deals with CS6 which has a lot of differences with the new version. Thanks anyway for your info.

                                Claude

                                From left to right: original-----> color corrected and under the reference without any correction.

                                screenshot_Sun_Nov_30_16.32.08_1.jpg

                                • 13. Re: fast color correction in premiere pro
                                  R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  Nice job ... and yea, Sg is in my never to be humble opinion clearly hurt by the dearth of GOOD and practical info on using it produced by anyone. Creative Cow & lynda and a few independent pieces on it are pretty good but simply don't cover so many parts of this program in so many workflows.

                                   

                                  Neil

                                  • 14. Re: fast color correction in premiere pro
                                    clauderozsa Level 1

                                    it's always the same developers hate to make extensive manuals of their softwares; I have worked in a software company in the 80s managing a team for the development of financial databases and softwares and I was always struggling with my engineers on that subject; they had always good excuses to postpone the writing of the manuals. Unfortunately for them being a former user and developer besides my job as a financial analyst, I'm stubborn and strong-headed and they could not escape my orders on the matter! And I always won in the end. We have an expression for that in French: to be a mule's head!!!!