9 Replies Latest reply on Dec 20, 2014 6:33 AM by trshaner

    Lightroom cause HDMI projector to flash on and off

    Jim_Palik Level 1

      I am a photography teacher in Germany and recently experienced an unusual phenomena.
      The school I teach at has just purchased a very high end HDMI projector. (cost the school 40,000 Euros). The quality of projection is incredible. However, When I review images in Lightroom, the projector periodically flashes on and off. This does not show on the screen of my notebook connected to the monitor. I am the only one having this problem and it only happens when I am in Lightroom. The IT support staff have not been able to figure it out (and they are very good).

       

      Below are my system details:

       

      I am using an HP EliteBook that is about 18 months old.

      The computer does not have an HDMI connector but the docking station has a DisplayPort connector

      I am using the computer on the docking station with a DisplayPort to HDMI cable connected to the projector.

      I have no problems using Power Point or Windows Photo Viewer.

      As soon as  I open Lightroom the projected image begins to periodically Flash on and off.

      I am using Lightroom 5.3.

       

      When doing a lecture to 70 students, this is real disconcerting to say the least.

       

      Does anyone have any ides why this is happening?

       

      Jim

        • 1. Re: Lightroom cause HDMI projector to flash on and off
          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Jim you posted this same exact issue on July 5, 2014 here:

           

          Projector problems using Lightroom

           

          It sounds like the HDCP communication link between the projector and the laptop is being lost.

           

          At the above link we suggested the issue may be due to incompatibility of the display profile with LR. What display profile are you using and have you tried calibrating the laptop's display with a hardware device (Spyder or i1 Display) with an ICC rev 2 profile? You can also try assigning the sRGB profile to the laptop's display using Windows 7 Control Panel > Color Management to see if that corrects the flashing issue.

           

          I would also suggest installing the latest LR update version 5.7:

           

          http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=5853

           

          How long is the HDMI cabling (all cables in the path!) and have you tried using a short HDMI cable that is revision 1.3 compliant or higher directly connected to the projector.

           

          If none of the above corrects the problem I suggest updating the video driver on your laptop. You should be able to download the latest video driver for your specific laptop model from HP's website.

          • 2. Re: Lightroom cause HDMI projector to flash on and off
            Jim_Palik Level 1

            Hello Trashner,

             

            Thank you for your reply. I have less than two weeks to get this problem solved. I did post the exact same issue several months ago. I thought I identified it as a connection problem between my notebook and the docking station. When it started again during class last week I realized that I had not been lecturing with Lightroom since I replaced the docking station. Window 7, PowerPoint, and movies using media player all work perfectly. It is only Lightroom that has this problem.

             

            • Since my first post, I have updated to 5.7.
            • I have no control over the length of the cable. Over 20 teachers use this room and projector and have no problems
            • I have no problems other than Lightroom

             

            I believe the answer has to be in the way I have Lightroom configured. I am interested in your comment about the display profile.

            1. I will try calibrating the tablet with the projector using my i1 calibrator.
            2. I will update my display driver to the latest.
            3. I have everything set to Adobe RGB, Why do you suggest sRGB ?

             

            I will let you know my results, and thank you again for looking at this issue.

             

            Jim

             

            ps: I know This is my problem but I hate addressing people by their profile names. It must be my age but do you have a first name I can use?

            • 3. Re: Lightroom cause HDMI projector to flash on and off
              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Hi Jim,

               

              When calibrating the laptop display AND the projector with an i1 Display device make sure the i1 Display calibration software (Eye-One Match) preferences are set to 'Matrix' and 'ICC version 2' profile.

               

               

              James Palik wrote:

               

              1. I have everything set to Adobe RGB, Why do you suggest sRGB ?

              This actually applies to both the laptop's display profile AND the profile Windows Color Management is assigning to the projector. Many people have had issue using manufacturer supplied profiles that Windows automatically installs when connecting a display or projector due to incompatibility with Lightroom. The best solution is to use a hardware calibrator like i1 Display to create a Matrix ICC version 2 profile, which we know is compatible. If you can't calibrate the projector try assigning sRGB for standard gamut or Adobe RGB profile for wide gamut display or projector devices using Windows 7 Control Panel > Color Management. Make sure to check 'Use my settings for this device' after selecting the new profile.

               

               

              I would also suggest first opening Lightroom and selecting ALL of the modules you will be using for the presentation (Library, Develop, Slideshow, etc.). When LR launches it opens in the last module used and only loads that one (1) module into memory. If you switch to another module LR has to load the code for that module into memory, which may cause the projector to lose its connection. By selecting ALL of the LR modules before connecting to the projector you eliminate this as a possible cause.

               

              James Palik wrote:

              • I have no control over the length of the cable. Over 20 teachers use this room and projector and have no problems
              • I have no problems other than Lightroom

              Are any of the other teachers using Lightroom with their presentations? MS Offfice programs like PowerPoint, and Windows Media Player are not color managed, so less likely to have issues. Lightoom is different than any other application, including Photoshop! If none of the other teachers are using Lightroom than that explains why they haven't had any issues.

               

              There is also the possibility that the projector cabling is causing this issue. The best way to determine that is to try running Lightroom with your laptop connected directly to the projector using a short HDMI 1.3 cable. Climb a ladder or whatever you need to reach the projector, plug it in, and try it! If it works than better HDMI cabling or an HDMI extender amplifier may rectify the issue. Two examples:

               

              http://www.amazon.com/Portta-PET30DP-10-Inch-Extender-Cables/dp/B003LZA95W

               

              Extron HDMI Extenders - HDMI 101 Plus

               

              Good Luck,

               

              Todd

              • 4. Re: Lightroom cause HDMI projector to flash on and off
                Jim_Palik Level 1

                Hello Todd,

                 

                Thank you so much for the information.

                 

                1. I calibrated the computer (HP EliteBook) using your recommendations.
                2. I preloaded Library, Import, Export, and Develop before connecting to the projector.
                3. I also left the computer on for more than an hour while another class was in session to be sure that it was not a heat problem.

                 

                Everything worked :-) I used Lightroom for another half hour just to be sure and I had no disconnects from the projector. Hopefully, thanks to your help,  the problem is finally solved.

                The real test will be Friday December 12, when field trip reviews are done using the projector for eight straight hours reviewing 70 students initial projects.

                 

                At this point, I am considering the problem solved. I will let you know the result after December 12.

                 

                FYI - The school I teach at is the Hochschule der Medien (Stuttgart Media University) in Stuttgart Germany. I am one of three still photography teachers.

                HDM teaches movie production and editing, audio production and editing, radio, traditional printing using large Heidelberg (room sized) presses, and media design.

                 

                I teach second semester students still photography fundamentals and masters classes (I teach in English). These classes are required classes for students to move into the more complex world of cinema.

                The room I teach in has a fully enclosed projection room with multiple high-end digital still and movie projectors . The lectern I teach from has a control box with all the cabling to the projection room fully enclosed. The possibility of doing any kind of direct connection to the projection equipment was impossible. In the grand scheme of things, my problem was more an irritant to the technical staff responsible for keeping several hundred thousand dollars of cinema infrastructure functioning. They declared in no uncertain terms that the cabling was not the problem and it was up to me come up with a solution.

                 

                Hopefully the above FYI gives you an idea why I appreciate your detailed analysis so much.

                 

                Thank you again,

                 

                Jim

                • 5. Re: Lightroom cause HDMI projector to flash on and off
                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Jim, it sounds like you have corrected the issue. Is this the first time you calibrated your laptop's display using a hardware calibrator like the i1 Display device? If so then the HP installed display profile was most likely causing the projector issue with LR. I would still make sure you launch all modules inside LR before connecting the laptop as a precaution. I also suggest setting Windows 7 Power Options to 'High Performance' mode with the below settings.

                   

                  You have a very well equipped presentation facility at your disposal–The technical staff is probably correct that cabling is not the issue. I wish you the best of success on December 12th with the reviews. Please let me know how it goes and if you have any other issues.

                   

                  Happy Holidays,

                   

                  Todd

                  • 6. Re: Lightroom cause HDMI projector to flash on and off
                    Jim_Palik Level 1

                    Hi Tod,

                     

                    Thanks again. I will let you know.

                     

                    I do have another question not related to the above issue. This has to do with the way Lightroom displays the histogram. In an academic environment I always have some students that are intent on challenging the teacher.  We have just finished discussions on editing photos based on using the histogram as the fundamental tool for adjusting and evaluating final edits. I come from the analog days and the Ansel Adams zone system. Consequently, I teach that one of the best ways to assure that the entire is grayscale represented in the picture is to convert the picture to black and white. Of course this changes the displayed shape of the histogram. I teach that using the new histogram, adjust exposure to even-out  peaks and valleys while keeping a close eye on the black point and white point to manage clipping. Then change back to color for final adjustments and tweaking. Of course this opens a myriad of conversation about the types of histograms available (an academic environment).

                     

                    Based on my knowledge of histograms it looks a though when converting to black and white, Lightroom is effectively changing the histogram displayed to a luminance histogram. I have read everything I can find on editing using Lightroom's histogram controls but I cannot find anything on how Lightroom "technically" calculates the histogram when displaying black and white.

                     

                    I know that this is an esoteric question and I don't think it is a forum type question but, can you confirm that the black and white histogram displayed is a luminance histogram?

                     

                    Thanks,

                     

                    Jim

                    • 7. Re: Re: Lightroom cause HDMI projector to flash on and off
                      trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      That's a good question and it is appropriate for the LR Forum. There are a number of issues using the B&W histogram to make adjustments in the Develop module if the final image is to be in Color mode. LR's Process PV2012 Basic Tone controls are 'Image Adaptive' and behave in a very non-linear way. Please see this paper for more details:

                       

                      Local Laplacian Filters: Edge-aware Image Processing with a Laplacian Pyramid

                       

                      In addition the B&W mode will apply an automatic 'Black & White Mix' to the image unless that option is unchecked in Preferences> Presets> 'Apply auto mix when first converting to black and white.' Even if this option is unchecked the non-linear Basic Tone controls will cause the settings to appear different when switched back to Color mode after making adjustments in B&W mode. Here's an example of an image adjusted in B&W mode with no Auto Black and White Mix as an example:

                      Black and White Histogram - Zone Adjustment.jpg

                      Notice that the B&W histogram shows no clipping, but the Color mode Histogram is clipped in both the highlights and shadows. The other issue is that certain colors may appear lighter or darker in Color mode after making Toning adjustments in B&W mode. This is caused by the eye spectral sensitivity, which is highest in the Green spectrum and lower in the Red and Blue spectrum. This is why we used color filters years ago when shooting B&W film.

                       

                      Another more important issue with LR's Histogram is the inability to accurately determine highlight clipping and underexposure in the raw file. LR applies a camera profile to the image raw data and there is currently no way to review the raw data. I use RawDigger for this purpose, which is a very useful tool! The Exposure Edition for $19.95 US is all that is required for most users.

                       

                      You may be interested in a recent article I coauthored with Mark Segal that was posted on Luminous Landscape concerning using a digital camera for film capture:

                       

                      Scannerless Digital Capture and Processing of Negative Film Photographs

                       

                      There is a PDF download available with the full article and a Photoshop Action and instructions at the bottom of the above link. Let me know if you have any other questions.

                       

                      Cheers,

                      Todd

                      • 8. Re: Lightroom cause HDMI projector to flash on and off
                        Jim_Palik Level 1

                        Hi Todd,

                         

                        Thanks for getting back to me. Sorry about the late reply. The last two weeks were very busy.

                         

                        I will look into RawDigger in more detail as soon as I get a chance. However, I need to return to my flashing problem. I thought it was solved, BUT . . .

                         

                        The class on December 12 was moved at the last minute to yesterday. This is the class where I did field trip reviews in the Lightroom develop mode on an HDMI projector with 70 students over a 6 hour period.

                         

                        1. The first 90 minutes went without incident.
                        2. About 10 minutes into the second 90 minutes the flashing started again and got very bad.
                        3. We broke for lunch. I turned off the computer, took it off the docking station and turned it over thinking it had to be a heat problem.
                        4. After lunch I reattached the computer to the docking station and continued with the reviews (fingers crossed).
                        5. The final three hours went without a flicker.

                        Because I detached from the docking station to assist with cooling (the bottom of the computer was not really hot, just slightly warm) I inadvertently introduced a second variable - the docking station connection.

                         

                        I your opinion, would you think this is the docking station or a GPU overheating?

                         

                        The next review class is January 16. I need to solve this before then.

                         

                        If I have to buy a new teaching computer would you mind giving your opinion as to MAC or PC?

                         

                        Thanks again for your help

                        • 9. Re: Lightroom cause HDMI projector to flash on and off
                          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Hi Jim,

                           

                          Since you were able to run without any issues for 90 minutes it is most likely a hardware problem. This assumes of course that you you didn't do anything different in your presentation during the 2nd 90 minute session. You can download a free HWMonitor here that will show the temperature readings for your CPU, GPU, hard drive(s), and motherboard, including fan speeds:

                           

                          http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor/versions-history.html

                           

                          The latest version is 1.26, which I am using on my HP desktop. It will show you the current values and min/max values for the open session. Here's a screenshot:

                          Run CPUID HWMonitor with a test session exactly the same as in your class review and post a screenshot here, same as above:

                           

                          Click on the CPUID HWMonitor window, press ALt + Prt Scr keys, right-click in your open forum reply here, and select Paste. You can also use the Windows Snipping Tool for this purpose.