17 Replies Latest reply on Dec 15, 2014 11:13 AM by rob day

    Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?

    vladi013 Level 1

      I've just noticed that if you paste acid like RGB gradients from AI the ID will convert them to CMYK, hence make them look muddy. Non-gradient RGB objects from AI look just fine when pasted.

       

      This is really a problem if you have to have an onscreen document and wish to keep the RGB values.

       

      My Color profiles are synced btw and ID doesn't prompt me that profile is wrong or missing when pasting.

       

      The only way to keep the RGB values in your gradient is to go to ID preferences and set prefer PDF when pasting in Clipboard tab but then object is not editable at all inside of ID.

        • 1. Re: Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?
          Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

          AI files should not be pasted via clipboard. You should save them as PDF/X-4 or as AI file and import it via FIle > Place…

          InDesign does not change the color space of placed content.

          • 2. Re: Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?
            BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

            That’s way too much a blanket statement. I’ve actually used the paste from

            AI to ID in order to get a gradient from AI to ID.

            • 3. Re: Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?
              Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              @Willi,

               

              There are definitely uses for copying AI objects (not entire files) and pasting them into InDesign. As Bob, says they bring in gradients. Sometimes, there is small artwork (has to be under a certain number of anchor points) which needs to be included and be editable.

              • 4. Re: Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?
                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                I’ve actually used the paste from

                AI to ID in order to get a gradient from AI to ID.

                 

                Can you edit it though? I cant see any way to get an editable gradient swatch on a paste or place.

                • 5. Re: Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?
                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  The only way to keep the RGB values in your gradient is to go to ID preferences and set prefer PDF when pasting in Clipboard tab but then object is not editable at all inside of ID.

                   

                  I can replicate your problem—gradients paste unpredictably with Prefer PDF turned off, and I don't see how you get an editable pasted gradient with any preference setting.

                   

                  Here I have my Illustrator clipboard preference set to AICB Preserve Appearance and InDesign's Prefer PDF turned off. The two blends are identical except the green in the top blend is set to 95% transparency (the transparency is not honored in the pasted object):

                   

                  Screen Shot 2014-12-13 at 9.24.06 AM.png

                  • 6. Re: Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?
                    Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    You may have to ungroup and/or click through a clipping path. I used CMYK colors.

                     

                    Illustrator CC 2014:

                     

                    Gradient_AI.png

                    I copied to the clipboard. In InDesign CC 2014, I ungrouped and chose the Content Grabber:

                     

                    Gradient_ID.png

                    • 7. Re: Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?
                      Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Very curious.

                       

                      When I created an Illustrator RGB document and created an RGB gradient, then copied to InDesign, the copied object is no longer selectable. Presumably, it was copied as a PDF object.

                       

                      I exported the INDD file as a print PDF with the PDF/X-4 preset  (which does no color conversion). When I viewed this in Acrobat Pro with Output Preview, it shows as a Device CMYK object.

                       

                      It could be a historical artifact. When the code to handle a copied Illustrator object in InDesign was written, it may have only included the ability to handle CMYK objects. This was in an era where InDesign wasn't really used to produce RGB output.

                      • 8. Re: Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?
                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        I exported the INDD file as a print PDF with the PDF/X-4 preset  (which does no color conversion). When I viewed this in Acrobat Pro with Output Preview, it shows as a Device CMYK object.

                        Add some transparency to one of the gradient colors. When I do that and export to PDF/X-4 the gradient is calibrated RGB

                        • 9. Re: Re: Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?
                          Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          @Rob – ah, yes, I can see this in my tests as well.


                          But in my experiments the gradient stays not in vector format, but will land as an image on the page, if you include some transparency and paste it to InDesign.

                           

                          If you do not use some transparency it will be converted to CMYK and stays in vector format.

                          I exported such a pasted gradient to IDMS and inspected the code.

                          The type of that pasted gradient seems to be a PastedSmoothShade.

                           

                          Here some example code for the definition of a PastedSmoothShade:

                           

                          <PastedSmoothShade Self="PastedSmoothShade/u107" ContentsVersion="0" ContentsType="AxialShade" SpotColorList="" ContentsEncoding="Ascii64Encoding" ContentsMatrix="1 0 0 -1 0 -243.66360473632812" Name="$ID/" ColorEditable="true" ColorRemovable="true" Visible="false" SwatchCreatorID="7937">
                                  <Properties>
                                      <Contents><![CDATA[QFzi+EAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwFHOiMAAAABAVgzogAAAAMBVjfiAAAAAAAEAAQABAAAA
                          AAACAAAABAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAP/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAD/w
                          AAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAEBuoAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAP/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPYA
                          AAAIAAAA9gAAAAAAAwQGCAoMDhASFRcaHB4gIiUoKiwtLzEyNDY4OTs8Pj9BQkNFRkhJSktNTk9R
                          UlRVVldZWltdXl9gYWNkZGZmZ2hpamtrbG1ubm9wcHFycnN0dHV1dnZ3d3d4eHl5enp6ent7fHx8
                          fX1+fn5+f39/gICBgICBgYGCgoKCgoKCgoODg4ODg4ODg4ODhISDg4ODg4ODg4OCgoKCgoKCgoGB
                          gYGBgYGBgYCAgICAf39/f35+fn5+fn5+fn18fHx8fHx8ent6enp6enp6eHh4eHh3d3d3dnV1dXV1
                          dXR0c3NzcnJycnJwcHBwcHBwcG9ubm5tbQAAAAAAAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAP/AAAAAA
                          AAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAD/wAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAEBuoAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAA
                          AAAAP/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPYAAAAIAAAA9hgWFBMRDw4NDAsKCQkIBgYFBAMDAgEAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                          AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                          AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                          AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                          AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAQAA
                          AAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAP/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAD/wAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAA
                          AEBuoAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAP/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPYAAAAIAAAA9ufn5ubm5eXl5eTk4+Pj
                          4+Li4uLh4eHg4ODf397e3t3c3Nzb2trZ2djY19bW1dTT0tLR0M/NzczLysnIx8bFxMTDwsHAv769
                          vLu7uri3trW0s7Kxsa+uraurqqmopqalpKKhoaCfnZycm5qZmJiXlZSTk5KRkI+PjYyLioqJiIeG
                          hoWEg4KCgYB/fn59fHt5enh3dnV1dHNxcHBvbm1ra2ppaWdnZmZlZGRjYmFgYF9eXVxcW1paWVlY
                          V1dWVlVUU1NTUlFQT1BPTk1MTExLSklJSUhHRkZGRURDQ0JCQUBAPz4+PT08PDs6Ojk5ODc3NjY1
                          NDQzMwAAAAAAAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAP/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAD/wAAAA
                          AAAAAAAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAEBuoAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAP/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPYAAAAI
                          AAAA9gwNDxAREBAQEA8PDw8ODAsLCgkJCAcFBAQEBAQEBAMDAgICAgIBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                          AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                          AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                          AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                          AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQ/uZmZoAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                          AAAAAAAAAAAAP/AAAAAAAAAAAAACAAEAAQ==]]></Contents>
                                  </Properties>
                              </PastedSmoothShade>
                          

                           

                          I cannot tell more about it, because this type of object is hardly documented in the IDML specs.

                          Maybe somone can dig into the code described in contents to find some useful things.

                           

                          So it seems it's not possible to transfer an RGB gradient from Illustrator to InDesign without changing the thing either to CMYK or to an image.

                          Maybe one can script it: Reading out the necessary properties of the RGB gradient in Illustrator and recreate it in InDesign.

                           

                          Uwe

                          • 10. Re: Re: Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?
                            Sandee Cohen Adobe Community Professional

                            I'm impressed by all you geniuses. You're making InDesign and Illustrator do things they were never meant to do—especially when it comes to getting gradients from Illustrator into InDesign.

                             

                            But you can't really complain that things don't work the way you'd expect. You're making the programs do things they were never designed to do. Remember, a bug is when the program does something not as designed. But InDesign was never designed to receive gradients from Illustrator.

                             

                            It's as if you figured out a way to get the program to make coffee but you wanted it brewed stronger.

                            • 11. Re: Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?
                              winterm Level 4

                              “Be realistic, demand the impossible!” ©

                               

                              This is the way the world goes on… 

                              • 12. Re: Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?
                                Sandee Cohen Adobe Community Professional

                                LOVE IT!

                                 

                                I've never heard that quote. It's perfect!

                                • 13. Re: Re: Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?
                                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  But you can't really complain that things don't work the way you'd expect. You're making the programs do things they were never designed to do.

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  But InDesign was never designed to receive gradients from Illustrator.

                                   

                                  As Steve pointed out you can copy and paste CMYK gradients and edit them as long as the 2 apps preferences are set up correctly.

                                   

                                  I'm not complaining or even offering a solution—just observing. The random conversion of an RGB gradient to CMYK may not be a bug but it certainly can't be a feature.

                                  • 14. Re: Re: Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?
                                    vladi013 Level 1

                                    yes we are bringing this up exactly for the reason because program is not designed to complete a common sense stuff like pasting the vector object from one vector program into another vector program that are both designed by same mother company. Especially when mother is promoting content sharing by copy/paste and mouse dragging, its an advertised feature.

                                     

                                    Having to save an .ai file because of some simple object as gradient only to be placed in InDesign is a broken workflow even if its designed like this and meant to work like this. It doesn't make any sense.

                                     

                                    If InDesign had gradient flexibility of Illustrator I would not even touch the Illustrator but since it does not for me and I bet a lot more other people its easier to knock a complex gradient in AI then to waste your time in ID. Which brings me to a point that AI and ID should be ONE app really!!

                                    • 15. Re: Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?
                                      vladi013 Level 1

                                      So transparency is the key to keep RGB values. Interesting.

                                      • 16. Re: Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?
                                        Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        @vladi013 – Yes and no.
                                        It will keep RGB values. But it seems that this will only work with a degration in flexibility: Always check, if you are ending up with an image object after pasting. Try it and do a preflight in Acrobat Pro for sufficient image resolution. However, what sufficant means in this situation depends on your workflow.

                                        Also check the RGB values in Acrobat Pro. Problem with that: They might be presented in percentage values instead of absolute numbers.

                                         

                                        Uwe

                                        • 17. Re: Re: Why does ID paste AI objects with RGB gradient as CMYK?
                                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          So transparency is the key to keep RGB values. Interesting.

                                           

                                          It does prevent the CMYK conversion, but it's not really a solution because you can't get to the gradient the way you can in Steve's all CMYK example—as Uwe points out it becomes an image fill. It's no better than setting your clipboard preference to PDF—probably worse because the transparency actually gets flattened