12 Replies Latest reply on Jan 12, 2015 11:10 PM by Laubender

    How to move pages between documents WITHOUT elements shifting

    aschwartau

      Hi everyone! My team members and I are so frustrated over what I think should be a really simple issue: copying/moving/dragging pages between documents and NOTHING CHANGING.

       

      Whenever we move pages between documents (which we have to do on a monthly basis - moving content into client branded files), at least ONE thing will shift and it usually has to do with overset text and/or text wrap. We have googled our brains out. We've tried everything on this list How-To: 10 Techniques for Copying Pages Between InDesign Documents | CreativePro.com and in the various Lynda tutorials we've looked at. We have combined our powers and still can not solve this problem so now I come to you, hoping that you can please please please help us figure out this issue before one of us throws a computer out the window.

       

      We have this one document. And this is what one of the problem pages looks like. Everything is on one layer. (look at the section marked 5)

      Screen shot 2014-12-15 at 7.15.59 PM.png

       

      Then I move the pages (copy/paste the content; drag and drop the pages; etc.) into the destination document so we can apply branding.

      AND THIS HAPPENS.

      Screen shot 2014-12-15 at 7.16.08 PM.png Screen shot 2014-12-15 at 7.16.16 PM.png

       

      WHY does this text suddenly become overset?

      The preferences of both documents are IDENTICAL. In fact, Document B was originally created from Document A.

       

      AND FUN FYI: I took Document A and Saved As a new name. Opened it the new name. And tried moving the pages into the newly named document -- and the SAME EXACT THING HAPPENED.

       

      I am going to bash my head into a wall. Can someone please shed some light on this? Have you seen this before? How do we fix it??

        • 1. Re: How to move pages between documents WITHOUT elements shifting
          Migintosh Level 4

          You might try doing a Save-As to both documents before doing the move. Another would be to export both as idml, and then open and save. Each of these can remove minor corruption in a file. And I agree with you that you should be able to move an item to a copy of the file that it came from and have it not change. Are you sure there isn't some item with text wrap that is involved?

          • 2. Re: How to move pages between documents WITHOUT elements shifting
            aschwartau Level 1

            On one of the troublesome pages, there is a thing with text wrap but if we're moving the entire page, why would the page not move all of itself without changing?

             

            On this example page, there is no text wrap near the element that's changing (the word Apple). There is text wrap on the Final Thoughts in the corner which isn't changing anything.

             

            Doesn't saving as IDML lose some of the properties if you use any shadow or other effects?

             

            If we had just done a final Save As on the Document A before giving it to the team member who's going to be copying the content into Document B, does that not count as doing a Save As? You mean the minute it's freshly opened try doing another Save As? (P.S. Edit: Just tried this. Didn't change what happened. )

            • 3. Re: How to move pages between documents WITHOUT elements shifting
              Migintosh Level 4

              aschwartau wrote:

              Doesn't saving as IDML lose some of the properties if you use any shadow or other effects?

              That's not something that I have ever heard, but since I haven't heard everything, I suppose it's possible. What you may be thinking of is that some people use idml to migrate a file to a lower version, and if that lower version lacks a feature of the version that created the file, you will either lose or modify the way that that feature worked in the original. I don't think that even in that scenario that a feature that was present in both versions would go away just because it took a trip through idml to get to an earlier version. And if idml botched shadow or effects, nobody would use it, and I don't think Adobe would have it.

              aschwartau wrote:

               

              If we had just done a final Save As on the Document A before giving it to the team member who's going to be copying the content into Document B, does that not count as doing a Save As? You mean the minute it's freshly opened try doing another Save As? (P.S. Edit: Just tried this. Didn't change what happened. )

              The thing that Save-As does is remove little bits of data associated with undos that a normal Save retains. Sometimes this data can lead to problems, so any time you do it, it will help, but if you do it at stage 37 and you hand off at stage 38, you will have cleared out most all of anything that may have built up over time. I don't want to give the impression that it is required, but it certainly doesn't hurt, and is probably a good idea to Save-As periodically.

              • 4. Re: How to move pages between documents WITHOUT elements shifting
                termillustrator

                you should try making the text box bigger, then command + B and inset your "apple" text by a few mm within the text box.

                 

                Just a thought and simple thing to test out.

                 

                M

                • 5. Re: How to move pages between documents WITHOUT elements shifting
                  Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  @aschwartau – can you show us the bounds of the original text frame near the "5"?

                  I think, you have minimized the bounds. By copy/paste you create a new object that gets redrawn by InDesign. Maybe some rounding error on the necessary minimum space will happen then, leading to overset text.

                   

                  Uwe

                  • 6. Re: How to move pages between documents WITHOUT elements shifting
                    aschwartau Level 1

                    It's been a couple weeks - we all went on vacation, and now we're back dealing with similar issues, and trying to figure out the WHYs.

                     

                    The IDML thing didn't work - and the issue has happened in MANY other documents (freshly built documents, copying and pasting into brand new unsaved documents even) and I've narrowed it down to one specific issue:

                     

                    TEXT WRAP.

                     

                    Still using these pages as an example -- I just did a test where this time when I copied and pasted into a fresh unsaved document, the FINAL THOUGHTS and the little arrow disappear. All objects are on the same layers that they were on in the original document, literally nothing has changed except that the text (FINAL THOUGHTS and the arrow, which is a font) disappears. So then I right clicked on those two text boxes and Text Frame Options --> Ignore Text Wrap and they came back.

                     

                    In the original document they are ABOVE the object with the text wrap and they are not currently affected by it nor do they have that Ignore Text Wrap option selected in the original document.

                     

                    SO WHY does it change when Copy/Paste happens?? Does anyone know or has anyone run into this before?

                    • 7. Re: How to move pages between documents WITHOUT elements shifting
                      BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                      Any of those document converted from Quark?

                      • 8. Re: How to move pages between documents WITHOUT elements shifting
                        aschwartau Level 1

                        Nope, all of these are documents created in InDesign CS5 on the same machine.

                        • 9. Re: How to move pages between documents WITHOUT elements shifting
                          BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                          If so, check your prefs.

                           

                          Text Wrap Only Effects Text Beneath needs to be off. IIRC, with converted Quark documents, it's left on.

                           

                          prefs.png

                          • 10. Re: How to move pages between documents WITHOUT elements shifting
                            Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                            @ Magintosh: I have to disagree. Even if you save as IDML an open in the very same version on the very same computer you might get changes in the document. If you make an IDML cleaning, you have to check everything. I got mirrored text offset in the text frame settings, effects lost or switched on, width of text frames on Master Pages, automatic numbers or bullets from paragraph styles have gone lost, coninue setting from automatic numbers was wrong, etc.

                            • 11. Re: How to move pages between documents WITHOUT elements shifting
                              Migintosh Level 4

                              Can anyone else confirm this, and do you all still recommend idml to fix errors if it results in new errors?

                              • 12. Re: How to move pages between documents WITHOUT elements shifting
                                Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                @Mgintosh – IDML is a double-edged sword.

                                And it's not perfect in replicating all features of InDesign.

                                Maybe 99.9 % (this is an imaginary figure).

                                 

                                The 0.1 % can bite you. The more complex your layout, the higher the probability. If you are doing IDML on a regular basis (e.g. export IDML, feed it to a translation utility, write out the changed IDML, open that in InDesign) be prepared for some surprises. And that does not cover a workflow from a higher version to a lower version.

                                 

                                Fixing some errors with IDML is a good thing, but you should, Willi already mentioned this, check all pages extensively.

                                 

                                Uwe

                                • 13. Re: How to move pages between documents WITHOUT elements shifting
                                  Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  See the following example:

                                   

                                  We have massive problems when using form fields in InDesign. Exporting to IDML or IDMS or using form fields in libraries (the same technology as using IDMS snippets) a lot of properties will be lost.

                                   

                                  And that means: Do not use a translation utility that requires IDML for translating comments etc. in form fields! It would be a disaster.

                                  Also: Do not use libraries for storing form fields! Do not use snippets for colaboration when you want to exchange form fields (e.g. managed with Adobe Bridge).

                                   

                                  Uwe