28 Replies Latest reply on Nov 16, 2016 7:46 AM by Szalam

    After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??

    kanadiou Level 1

      Hello,

      I'm sorry to says, but It's getting worse and worse.

       

      Come on guys, what is better in this ?

      Blurred my eyes see? It's just a pile of keys all glued together ... Someone beta tests in adobe?

       

      89e90cb5e1.jpg

       

      how far we have to zoom in to see something? Please go back, I will do with the keys to version 13.1

       

      863aef73c0.png 6e3fed690d.png 38241e8a91.png

        • 1. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
          Tim Kurkoski Adobe Employee

          kanadiou, thanks for posting. As I was one of the people involved in making this change in After Effects 2014.2 (13.2), I have some perspective to share with you.

           

          The keyframe icons were changed in After Effects 2014.2 (13.2) to address feedback that the icons in After Effects 2014.1 (13.1) were difficult to visually distinguish against the darker background. The new icons have higher-contrast edges and are slightly brighter overall.

           

          Quite a bit of design work, including several revisions of the design, went into the new set of icons. The new icons, including the design variants, were tested by our prerelease program, users of After Effects like yourself who we asked to test the new keyframes with real-world projects. The feedback they gave us on the new icons is that they solved the problem we intended to address, and that they are better than the keyframe icons in After Effects 2014.1 (13.1). That said, our prerelease users are never shy to criticize, and did tell us about some new issues with this design, which I'll detail below.

           

          1. When zoomed out, keyframes that are clustered closely together are hard to distinguish from each other. kanadiou, this is what your screenshots show. We noticed this issue on the first design iteration of the new keyframe icons and explicitly asked our prerelease users about this. What they told us is that while the new design looks slightly worse in this regard, the amount of detail available in either the new or old designs is not useful; you always need to zoom in to get useful detail.

           

          2. The continuous bezier (hourglass) keyframe icon is wider ("fatter", as our prerelease users put it) than the old icons. This was a side effect of adding the bright outline to the icons; with the limited resolution of these small icons, the pixel changes started warping this shape, which is more complex (6 vertices) than the other icons. We did try some variants that were narrower, but it compromised the design in a different, worse way. We may revisit this in the future.

           

          3. The contrast of half-bright, half-dark keyframe icons is distracting. Although the split-shading keyframe design has been in After Effects for almost its entire existence, the contrast was subdued significantly in After Effects 7.0 (2006) to the point where it wasn't noticeable; although it wasn't the primary goal of the design, the new keyframe icons in After Effects 2014.2 (13.2) raises this contrast and makes the difference noticeable again. We were surprised to learn that, because of the contrast was so low for so long, many of our (very experienced) prerelease users were unfamiliar with the intent of the split-shading keyframe design. If you're also unfamiliar, you may want to read up on keyframe interpolation and what the shading indicates. This led to a discussion of whether keyframe interpolation is the best information to convey with this shading, and whether there are alternate keyframe designs that could convey more useful information. This is good for us to consider for the future, but out of scope for the immediate problem we intended to solve, the visibility of the keyframes.

           

          4. The icon color and brightness can't be changed from blue to the amber used in previous releases of After Effects. The color of the icons (or any other part of the user interface) was not within scope of what we were changing in After Effects 2014.2 (13.2). We have been reading all of your comments, forum posts, and feature requests to make the highlight indicator color and brightness a customizable setting in After Effects and the other Adobe digital video and audio products. Our User Experience group has been carefully considering how that can be achieved. We intend to talk about this more in the future.

           

          kanadiou, and everyone else, we welcome your suggestions on how to improve the keyframe icon designs. I do ask that you be specific about the problems you'd like us to address. Knowing which problems bother you the most will help us prioritize what we change in After Effects.

          http://adobe.com/go/wish

          • 2. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
            ThunderLion Level 1

            Ha,  Yes.  I wonder why they did this.  Sure. i complained about them being too dark...Blue..  But i just wanted the yellow back.  Not to make the keyframes 3 time larger.  Ill get used to it.  But for now, i keep thinking i have two keyframes and i keep zooming in to delete one, only to realize there is only one.

            • 3. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
              kanadiou Level 1

              Hi,

              Tim, thanks for answering. I understand it's very difficult to do something that will gonna be ok for everybody.

               

              For me, blue interface is quite ok, i'd prefer yellow, but ok. New interface is way too much constrast, but you know that i think, everybody says that.
              But with blue interface on 13.1 i was able to work.

               

              Honnestly, when i start my project with 13.2, and looked at my keys, i just saw a among fo glue thing, and it's very difficult to read.

               

              And I am very familiar with all kinds of keyframes interpolation. It's why adobe have to do something, i think keyframing is one of top things that have to be perfectly readable in AE. This is no longer the case.

               

              I don't know exactly what adobe have to do with all of this, interface, keys etc, but i don't think community using adobe wants large keyframes, maybe just reverse it like it was on previous versions, when it was yellow. But between 13.1 and 13.2, i think it is way less readable that way.

               

              ThunderLion But for now, i keep thinking i have two keyframes and i keep zooming in to delete one, only to realize there is only one.

              Exactly, and if you have more that one keyframe, it's just a big stroke...

              • 4. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Tim Kurkoski wrote:

                 

                kanadiou, thanks for posting. As I was one of the people involved in making this change in After Effects 2014.2 (13.2), I have some perspective to share with you.

                This is (one reason) why I love the After Effects team. Thank you for being willing to share this sort of thing with us and for hearing our feedback.

                • 5. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                  Tim Kurkoski Adobe Employee

                  kanadiou wrote:

                   

                  but i don't think community using adobe wants large keyframes, maybe just reverse it like it was on previous versions, when it was yellow.

                  One additional comment here - the pixel size of the new keyframe icons is about the same as the old ones. We actually tried larger keyframe icons, by about 1 or 2 pixels (a little more for high-DPI displays), in the first iteration of the new design. I liked them but our designer and many of our prerelease users did not. The final keyframe icons that are in After Effects 2014.2 (13.2) are the same pixel size except for the Continuous Bezier (hourglass shape) icon, but they can look larger because the bright outlines have the effect of making them appear bigger than the old keyframes, which had dark edges.

                  • 6. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                    kanadiou Level 1

                    i understand, maybe on new keyframes on 13.2, dark edge will be enough ?

                    Caus' on the screen capture, don't you agree with me, it's not readable it's just a big stroke and no multiple keyframes ?

                     

                    with 13.1, there are lots of comments from adobe users, but we still can work. I find those keyframes very difficult to read and hard to work with.

                    • 7. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                      jeff-7117

                      Todd,

                       

                      Thanks for the update and the detailed post.  Unfortunately, this latest update tries to fix a problem that didn't exist prior to the color change.  Take a look at post #45 on this discussion thread  The specified item was not found.

                       

                      I pulled this still from the thread.

                      oldselectedkeyframe.jpg

                       

                      This looks great.  It's easy on the eyes and easy to follow the selected keys.  The new keyframes are so much more distracting visually compared to the old keyframes. 

                       

                      Adobe is still trying to take a step forward with the "new blue" when really, you are taking 4 steps back trying to fix it.  Perhaps it would be best to chalk up the hours spent on the interface change as a learning experience and start over with the old interface? 

                      • 8. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                        kanadiou Level 1

                        agree !

                        i think before 13.1, interface color was perfect, and please less constrast with all this black and grey colors !

                        • 9. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                          Dave LaRonde Level 6

                          It's tough to please everyone. 

                          For example, I'm a big fan of white and light grey backgrounds in the user interface.  I think you get more color and contrast options that way.  Adobe quit offering it a long time ago, and I've been grumpy about it ever since.

                          • 10. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                            kanadiou Level 1

                            yes, of course it is. But until now, it's was improvement for working. Last cosmetics updated are missed. What we need is tools too work, well and fast.

                            Doesn't really care if it's blue, yellow or red, or whatever, but the fact is, it was readable (understandable) with old yellow keyframes. Well they changed it to blue. I'm not big fan, and dark interface is too much contrast (here) and with last 13.2 update, honnestly i can't see my keys from zoom out. All is blurred.

                            • 11. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                              Dave LaRonde Level 6

                              Well, no one's holding a gun to your head telling you to use this current version of AE or die.  How many of the new features do you actually use?

                              Have you submitted a Feature Request to get it changed back... repeatedly submitted them?  The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

                              • 12. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                                kanadiou Level 1

                                Come one, what are you talking about ? It's not the subject, i won't use ae 6.5, i've got CC, i update, use new tools and whatever, i won't do a list of what i use and i do not use.

                                With CC, there is an update, i install it and that's all, i won't have ae6.5 to ae 13.2 versions on the same machine, just because i prefer old keyframes

                                 

                                I just show something, if nobody says anything, how do you want adobe knows about it ? Plenty of ae users do not like this blue color, i didn't troll any subject for this.

                                I had a screen capture, do you think new keyframes are readable and cool ?

                                 

                                And yes i submited a request, but i think the only way to change something is to post on forum and that lots of people do that.

                                 

                                And nobody put a gun on me, but please i pay everymonth my subscription like - i don't know - thousands of people, and there is not even a reel support

                                So please remains in the subject, and by the way, i use lot of new features.

                                • 13. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                                  jeff-7117 Level 1

                                  In all honesty, fixing this shouldn't be a "feature request" but rather a "necessary fix."


                                  Taking a bunch of suggestions and throwing out the lowest number (common in "Feature Requests") doesn't really seem like a good way to fix what originally wasn't broken. 


                                  Feature requests are 1-way trip.  Send it off and "hope" they pick it.  This forum is for discussion, and honestly, I've never fixed an issue with ANY CLIENT without some discussion first.


                                  If entire studios are holding off on updating because of the interface issues, I would say it's a legit problem and he's not being picky.  The pain for many of us is bouncing back and forth between AE versions just to cut down on the eye strain from the blue interface.  When you are using the new interface for 8+ hours a day, day after day, it is hard on the eyes.

                                  • 14. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                                    Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

                                    I'm a big fan of white and light grey backgrounds in the user interface.  I think you get more color and contrast options that way.  Adobe quit offering it a long time ago, and I've been grumpy about it ever since.

                                     

                                    May I join your frat club?

                                     

                                    Mylenium

                                    • 15. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                                      Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

                                      In all honesty, fixing this shouldn't be a "feature request" but rather a "necessary fix."

                                       

                                      Amen to that. There was nothing wrong with the old interface(s) in all the video apps and whoever came up with this deserves to be punished severely. Even the "we needed to unify the UIs" argument doesn't count, because aside from using the same ugly blue everywhere, they in fact aren't unified at all - element placement is still different and even things like the fonts used for timecodes and so on. It's tragic that Adobe has a whole bunch of UI/ UX designers, but none of them could prevent this disaster.

                                       

                                      Mylenium

                                      • 16. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                                        kanadiou Level 1

                                        yes agree to that too. It's difficult for me to explain what i think in english, i have not enough vocabulary, and you people do that better than i can do !

                                        and yes, apps are not unified at all, just some of theme and not perfectly, but it's not a really big problem at the moment, i'd prefer they work on a reel and good update .

                                        • 17. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                                          Tim Kurkoski Adobe Employee

                                          kanadiou wrote:

                                          Caus' on the screen capture, don't you agree with me, it's not readable it's just a big stroke and no multiple keyframes ?

                                          I agree that the new keyframe icon design blends tightly-grouped keyframes together more than the old keyframe design when the timeline is zoomed very far out. If you re-read my first post on this thread, you'll see my comment that we raised this issue with our prerelease users and they told us that viewing keyframes at that zoom level didn't provide useful detail even with the old design. It sounds like you disagree, which is valid, and if so I'd like to ask you submit a feature request that is specific to this problem, and if you have ideas how to solve it, especially ideas that are separate from the color and contrast of the keyframes.

                                           

                                          Feature request submissions are important to us. We do talk to our users, frequently. Feature requests, as well as comments on this and other (non-Adobe) forums, help us tally the opinions of the many users we don't get to talk to directly. Addressing all of the requests we receive is impractical, but each feature request gets read and contributes to our understanding of what users want.

                                           

                                          On a related topic, have you tried changing the brightness of the user interface in Preferences > Appearance? I ask because many people we've talked to didn't realize they could do this. It doesn't go as bright as it used to (sorry, Dave), but it does provided some latitude.

                                           

                                          -=Tim

                                          • 18. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                                            kanadiou Level 1

                                            i did try appearance option, but for me dark is ok, it's black section/case i find too much contrast.

                                             

                                            I did a feature request, i will do a new one, and trying to explain more the problem for me, and trying to explain as much as possible.

                                             

                                            And just to say, ok my title is a little bit hard, but i'm not here just to say "hey i like/don't like", i have something else to do, so if i say all of this, is because i really find this keyframes not really nice to work with. Hope you understand.

                                            • 19. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                                              Tim Kurkoski Adobe Employee

                                              kanadiou wrote:

                                               

                                              i did try appearance option, but for me dark is ok, it's black section/case i find too much contrast.

                                               

                                              I did a feature request, i will do a new one, and trying to explain more the problem for me, and trying to explain as much as possible.

                                               

                                              And just to say, ok my title is a little bit hard, but i'm not here just to say "hey i like/don't like", i have something else to do, so if i say all of this, is because i really find this keyframes not really nice to work with. Hope you understand.

                                              kanadiou, I did see the feature request you submitted. Thanks. That, and any others you send, will be important when we look at this area again in the future.

                                               

                                              We appreciate that you've taken the time to provide your feedback, both here in the forum and in the feature requests. We understand that you're busy, and sometimes you just need to vent your frustrations (I do the same thing). But for us to understand how to make After Effects better, we need the frustrations broken down into actionable changes, so we're glad when you can take the time to give us that level of detail. It always works better than us guessing.

                                              • 20. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                                                actionfigure00 Level 1

                                                Should I submit another feature request for making the interface remotely legible by turning back the clock to yellow, or you got the few I sent already? It looks like the update you did took more work than offering a "make it yellow" option, and you didn't even address the keyframes. I'm irate. What was your reason to switch from Yellow again?

                                                • 21. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                                                  grigersinski

                                                  I feel wholeheartedly panic stricken about this whole ordeal. I have a slight color blindness and I CANNOT see which keyframe(s) is/are selected with the blue interface. I'm not sure if that will shock some of you, I showed non-AE users and they said they could see the difference, but I showed them the yellow=selected and gray=unselected and they said it was SIGNIFICANTLY more obvious. I don't WANT subtle minimalist cool-guy hipster interfaces. I want highly functional, meaningful interfaces. Making all the icons monochromatic? ABSOLUTELY INSANE, so much more difficult to tell what's what. Cool mid-blue against gray? Mind-boggling.

                                                   

                                                  I guess Adobe can make all the icons cats and I'd have to deal with it... but I need the people at Adobe to understand that it is literally hurting my business to a very high degree. I do freelance editing so I have to match the Premiere Pro version they use (13.2), when I'd rather stick with 13.02. I NEED the 13.02 version so I can use it in conjunction with AE since the versions are incompatible. So I've literally been uninstalling and reinstalling old/new versions ONLY becausethe LEGIBILITY IS AWFUL and the KEYFRAMES ARE UNUSABLE FOR ME.

                                                   

                                                  I hope you guys at Adobe understand. I can't tell you how many hours have been wasted uninstalling and reinstalling just to have some solution for this disaster. And yes I've been consistently submitting bug reports and feature requests. The worst part of this whole thing is your "solutions" to the problem. They're unbelievable, literally ignoring the out-pour of requests. Apologies for sounding emotional, but I'm incredibly stressed out because of your design choice and I feel powerless because the supposed recourse of submitting these requests moves slow enough that I might be out of business by the time some solution arrives, or even worse, is completely meaningless and Adobe has no intention of catering to this small but loud group at all.

                                                  • 22. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                                                    Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    grigersinski wrote:

                                                     

                                                    I do freelance editing so I have to match the Premiere Pro version they use (13.2), when I'd rather stick with 13.02. I NEED the 13.02 version so I can use it in conjunction with AE since the versions are incompatible. So I've literally been uninstalling and reinstalling old/new versions ONLY becausethe LEGIBILITY IS AWFUL and the KEYFRAMES ARE UNUSABLE FOR ME.

                                                    I have some great news for you! You can install as many different versions of AE as you would like. No need to uninstall and reinstall! See this: How to Find and Install Previous Version of Adobe Apps in CC 2015

                                                    I actually have CS5, CS6, CC, CC 2014, and CC 2015 all installed on my computer at home with no problems. CC 2015 has some changes to the UI preferences so you can make a lot of things easier to see. Now, if you do install CC 2015, be sure to change the settings so that it doesn't remove old versions. See this: Creative Cloud Delivering More Choice for Installations

                                                     

                                                    The great news about this is that you're not stuck with the version of AE that matches their version of Premiere. You could import into AE whatever you need to import from Premiere in their version, then save that project back to a version with colors you're able to work with (see this page: opening After Effects projects from previous versions and saving back to previous versions). And then re-open and save it in whatever version of AE they need it in.

                                                    I know that doesn't help you with Premiere, but your AE work should be doable. Heck, you could work in AE CS6 if you wanted to!

                                                    • 23. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                                                      grigersinski Level 1

                                                      Thank you so much for responding. This does seem very promising. Do you know if it's possible to have 2014.0 and 2014.2 installed at the same time? Because that's what I need. I can't seem to find that information anywhere and I haven't been able to achieve it.

                                                       

                                                      Also my biggest concern is "importing clips into after effects" for effects shots that can be done in AE. So I need to be able to, in PP 2014.2, say "open in AE composition" in AE 2014.0. I can't seem to achieve this, I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong.

                                                       

                                                      Many thanks again for your reply, Szalam, as you can tell, I'm an emotional wreck over it.

                                                      • 24. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                                                        Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        grigersinski wrote:

                                                         

                                                        Do you know if it's possible to have 2014.0 and 2014.2 installed at the same time?

                                                        That you can't do.

                                                         

                                                        grigersinski wrote:

                                                         

                                                        Also my biggest concern is "importing clips into after effects" for effects shots that can be done in AE. So I need to be able to, in PP 2014.2, say "open in AE composition" in AE 2014.0. I can't seem to achieve this, I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong.

                                                        If you want to do the Dynamic Link thing, either grab your stuff in 2014.2, work in CC 2015 (updated to 13.5.1), and then open and save it again back in CC 2014 (the project file is interchangeable between 13.2 and 13.5) OR grab your stuff in 2014.2, save back to CC, work in CC, and then open it and save it again back in CC 2014.

                                                         

                                                        But you don't have to do it that way. I don't. I still distrust the Dynamic Link way of doing things. I either use the Import Premiere Pro Project command in After Effects or simply copy and paste clips from Premiere into AE. Then I render an intermediate file out of AE and bring that back into Premiere.

                                                        Handy thing is that, if I need to make changes, I just replace the intermediate file with the new one and it's updated in Premiere too. Not as smooth as Dynamic Link, but also fewer areas for potential problems.

                                                        Plus, this way you don't need to re-render your AE composition every time you encode a different deliverable. If you have a fairly render-heavy comp, only having to render it once is nice.

                                                         

                                                        Again, use 13.2 to grab your Premiere assets, work in 12.2 or 13.5, then save it back in 13.2 orsimply render it out into an intermediate format and bring that render back into Premiere.

                                                        • 25. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                                                          marcs83375630

                                                          just give us the oppurtunity to change the keyframe in whatever colour we want...

                                                          • 26. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                                                            Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                            In both the CC 2015.3 and CC 2017 releases, you can change the brightness of the keyframes in addition to two other brightness controls. It's not as good as being able to change the color, but it might help.

                                                            • 27. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                                                              marcs83375630 Level 1

                                                              i figured that out, but as you say, it's not as good as being able to change the color

                                                               

                                                              appreciate your effort, thanks man

                                                               

                                                              have a nice day

                                                              • 28. Re: After effects 132 new keyframes... it's a joke isn't it ??
                                                                Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                marcs83375630 wrote:

                                                                 

                                                                appreciate your effort, thanks man

                                                                No problem!

                                                                 

                                                                marcs83375630 wrote:

                                                                 

                                                                have a nice day

                                                                You too!