24 Replies Latest reply on Dec 24, 2014 9:05 AM by Peter B. Bailey

    Master pages not working

    Peter B. Bailey Level 1

      I'm modifying an InDesign (cc 2014) document. I've changed the master pages dramatically. I've "applied" those master pages to my document pages. And, . . ., nothing happens. What's going on here? Why won't the document pages reflect the changes from the master pages? I've "applied" the master pages many times by now. The placement of all of the text boxes remains the same as it was.

       

      Thanks,

      Peter

        • 1. Re: Master pages not working
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          Once overridden, the text boxes might not move, and no doubt you've now got new master frames in the background as well.

           

          At this point you might want to consider how much trouble it would be to export the stories as tagged text and import them into a new file that is using the master laid out as you want it now.

          • 2. Re: Master pages not working
            Peter B. Bailey Level 1

            Thanks.

            I don't know what you mean by "once overridden." What's the purpose of master pages if they can't work as just that, master pages? If I make changes to the master pages, then, why can't they be reflected in the document pages.

            I'll try what you suggest, but, it seems nuts to me.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Master pages not working
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              When you place content into a master frame it is automatically overridden onto the document page, and any changes you make to it will lose their link to the master page. If all you do is flow text, then you would lose the link to any text attributes in the master frame, but other changes should remain linked. If you also change the geometry or position of the frame after adding the text you would lose the connections for geometyr and position and that sort of chang onthe mast would no longer be reflected in the existing document pages.

              • 4. Re: Master pages not working
                Peter B. Bailey Level 1

                Say what? Any changes I make to what? I made changes to the master page, not the document page. The document page seems incapable now of reflecting that change from the master page assigned to the document page. What am I missing here? What's the purpose of master pages if they can't automatically reflect margins, text box sizes, etc. to existing document pages? Geeez. I mean, they have this function now called "liquid layout." That seems far, far more radical than anything I'm asking for.

                 

                Thanks.

                • 5. Re: Master pages not working
                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                  I don't know what you have or haven't done to your frames on the document pages after you placed content into them. The concept is that if you want them to continue to be linked to the master page, place the content, then never move or resize them directly.

                  • 6. Re: Master pages not working
                    Peter B. Bailey Level 1

                    I haven't done a thing to my document pages. They're just there, with light blue lines now all over the place indicating the new master page's text frames. It's just a re-sizing and a moving of the text frames on the page that I want.

                    • 7. Re: Master pages not working
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      Pragmatically speaking, I think either adding a new page and flowing the text into the new page and delete all the old ones, then flow the overset into new pages, or importing the text into a new file, is going to be faster than trying to figure out what got screwed up and why.

                      • 8. Re: Master pages not working
                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        These captures show what Peter is describing:

                         

                        Here I've released the masterpage item on page 4, nudged it a bit to change its X, Y, and changed its stroke color

                        Screen Shot 2014-12-22 at 2.01.22 PM.png

                         

                        If I go to the master and change its X,Y, stroke and fill color, you can see the MP items I haven't released respond to all of the changes, but the released item only responds to the fill change because I never changed its fill after the release:

                         

                        Screen Shot 2014-12-22 at 2.02.15 PM.png

                        • 9. Re: Master pages not working
                          Peter B. Bailey Level 1

                          I'm trying to design 3 or 4 versions of an 80 page publication. I've done the first, using master pages for each "section" of the publication. For each of these "versions," I just want to modify the text frame size, the text frame placement, and maybe the font, pt. size, and leading. I've created my first version. When I save it off as another file and modify the master pages, it's impossible to get the document pages to simply obey the newly designed master pages. When I go into the document pages, the standing text box, with all its text, is there in the same position as it originally was. I can see the faint blue lines in the background as the borders of the new master page. There seems to be no relationship anymore between the master page and those filled text boxes.

                          • 10. Re: Master pages not working
                            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            the standing text box, with all its text, is there in the same position as it originally was.

                            When you add the text content to the page how are you overriding the MP item? Command-Shift click? When you release an MP item if you even nudge it or change its X,Y in any way it will no longer respond to an X,Y change from the master.

                            I can see the faint blue lines in the background as the borders of the new master page.

                            It sounds like the text box in question isn't really from a master page, or if it was, it's been both overridden and detached. If you select the text frame in question can you choose Master Pages>Remove Selected Overrides from the pages flyout?

                            • 11. Re: Master pages not working
                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                              It's imperative that you not override master frames before you flow text into them. If you override them, then ID creates new frames for the autoflow and ignores the master frames, so changes you make on the master page won't have any effect at all. Perhaps that's the problem here.

                              • 12. Re: Master pages not working
                                Peter B. Bailey Level 1

                                What am I missing here? Yes, I have a standing document, with its master pages. Now, I save the document to another with a new name. I modify the master pages, thinking, perhaps stupidly, that these change will be reflected, by applying the "new" masters. But, the changes aren't reflected. I'm not adding any text content. The text is already there!

                                • 13. Re: Master pages not working
                                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                  Right, but it matters how it got there. Unless it was flowed into a master frame changing the master will have no effect on the existing text frames.

                                   

                                  Two things can prevent text from flowing in a master thread: Overriding the frame (Ctrl/Cmd + Shift click on the frame before placing the text), or accidentally or intentionally clicking the loaded cursor on a guide (this is not well documented, by the way). If either of those happened when you placed all that text you can change the master pages 'til the cows come home and nothing will change on your pages.

                                  • 14. Re: Master pages not working
                                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Can you share a sample problem layout via dropbox?

                                    • 15. Re: Master pages not working
                                      Peter B. Bailey Level 1

                                      OK. Here are two ID files in my DropBox folder. the "0" file is the original. The "1" file is with the new master. It's master page A that's in question here. I haven't gotten to any of the others yet, because, I can't get A to work yet.

                                       

                                      https://www.dropbox.com/sh/j8zlb4fkmvlskc1/AAC82T_E_6kyMaPHD8tCxSWda?dl=0

                                       

                                      I don't recall doing anything to "override" the frame or clicking a loaded cursor on a guide. But, even if I'd done such a thing, geeeez, would there be any way to undo that? Or, would I literally be totally in limbo? Seems ridiculous if I couldn't undo it.

                                       

                                      Thanks.

                                      • 16. Re: Master pages not working
                                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                        Peter B. Bailey wrote:

                                         

                                        I don't recall doing anything to "override" the frame or clicking a loaded cursor on a guide. But, even if I'd done such a thing, geeeez, would there be any way to undo that? Or, would I literally be totally in limbo? Seems ridiculous if I couldn't undo it.

                                        The only time you could have undone it would be at the time you did it. At this point, as I said earlier, you really need to remove the existing text frames and reflow, carefully, into the master frames.

                                        • 17. Re: Master pages not working
                                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          As we suspected your text isn't really in the master page text frames. In this example I've cut the text from page 5 which is an A master and flowed it into the actual master page frames. As you can see the pages based on an A master now respond to a reposition from the A master:

                                           

                                          http://www.zenodesign.com/forum/DER_Redesign2.zip

                                           

                                          To get the text into the master frames, I selected all of the threaded text from page 5, cut, released the MP frame on page 5 by Command-Shift clicking it, and pasted.

                                           

                                          Also, the text frames on your masterpage spreads aren't threaded which you'll have to fix otherwise the text will flow only to the left pages of the spreads. Go to the master page, select the left page text frame, click the out port in the lower left corner of the frame, and click on the right page text frame. With View>Extras>Show Text Threads on you should see this:

                                           

                                          Screen Shot 2014-12-24 at 9.13.57 AM.png

                                          • 18. Re: Master pages not working
                                            Peter B. Bailey Level 1

                                            OK. Well, I should think that that's simply the last state it's in. I've been all over the place.

                                             

                                            I don't know what you mean by "the text isn't really in the master page text frames." It's my theory, and, of course, I'm probably totally wrong about this, that, by modifying the master pages in a document that's already full of text, that those document pages will reflect the modified master pages. That's all I'm asking for.

                                             

                                            Are you telling me that I literally have to reflow in all of my text again just because I've modified the master pages?

                                             

                                            Threading master pages has always confused me, because, you can go from the left page to the right, but, not from the right to the left. Obviously, you have to do that in the document pages. And, I have to simply trust that it'll flow accordingly when I pour in my text. Most of the time it does and it's no problem. I know all about seeing the text threads.

                                             

                                            Thanks.

                                            • 19. Re: Master pages not working
                                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                              Peter B. Bailey wrote:

                                              Are you telling me that I literally have to reflow in all of my text again just because I've modified the master pages?

                                               

                                              No, we're telling you you have to reflow it because it isn't using the master page text frames, so changes you make on the master page don't affect it.

                                              • 20. Re: Master pages not working
                                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                It's my theory, and, of course, I'm probably totally wrong about this, that, by modifying the master pages in a document that's already full of text, that those document pages will reflect the modified master pages. That's all I'm asking for.

                                                 

                                                No that's not how it works. Masters are typically used for objects that never change like your running foot. If you change the foot from the master page you will see that they move on the pages also.

                                                 

                                                You can add content to a master page item on a page, but it has to be overridden first—when you do that it becomes a page item that's linked to the master. You can also make page items directly on a page, but those items will have no relation to a master.

                                                 

                                                Spread 2-3 in this capture shows a masterpage item (it's not a page item because it hasn't been released), an overridden master page item (which can respond to a master page change), and a page item with no relation to the masters (which is what you have):

                                                 

                                                Screen Shot 2014-12-24 at 10.31.19 AM.png

                                                 

                                                Look at the help page on masters, or maybe a Lynda tutorial would help:

                                                 

                                                InDesign Help | Master pages

                                                • 21. Re: Master pages not working
                                                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  Threading master pages has always confused me

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  If you don't connect the frames across the master spread you'll get this when you flow text into the master text frames on the pages

                                                   

                                                  Screen Shot 2014-12-24 at 10.45.18 AM.png

                                                  • 22. Re: Master pages not working
                                                    TᴀW Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    There is an option of setting one frame per master page as a "Primary

                                                    Text Frame", which allows a little more flexibility...

                                                    • 23. Re: Master pages not working
                                                      Peter B. Bailey Level 1

                                                      Yes. I know all about threading. Obviously, I wouldn't have been able to create the publication you see without knowing about it.

                                                       

                                                      Thanks. And, Merry Christmas!

                                                      • 24. Re: Master pages not working
                                                        Peter B. Bailey Level 1

                                                        OK. I'm just going to create brand new ID files then. I'll start anew with no text at all. I'll copy the text from my previous job. I find this totally ridiculous, but, I'll accept it.

                                                         

                                                        Thanks a lot, Rob. And, thank you, too, Peter.

                                                         

                                                        Merry Christmas to you both!