11 Replies Latest reply on Dec 30, 2014 8:57 AM by trshaner

    Pentax RAW file photos do not display correcty in LR

    El Búho Level 1

      Using Macbook Pro, OS X 10.8.5
      Lightroom version 5.7, Raw 8.7
      Camera Pentax K7
      Lightroom does not seem to be able to display Pentax RAW files correctly. Colours are unnatural, muddy and lacking in yellow. Pictures are lacking detail and look muzzy. Preview displays RAW photos fine with correct colour cast and pictures are clear with plenty of detail. Photos processed from RAW to Jpeg using Pentax's digital camera utility, then imported to LR library display perfectly. LR doesn't seem to be able to handle Pentax RAW files, despite being listed as a supported file on Adobe list of compatible file types. Even iPhoto does a better job than LR.

      What;s going on Lightroom people? Do I have to manually activate some sort of plug-in?

      (left image Lightroom, right Preview)Screen Shot 2014-12-28 at 19.01.55 .png

        • 1. Re: Pentax RAW file photos do not display correcty in LR
          DdeGannes Adobe Community Professional

          Lightroom is an application which process raw file data from supported cameras using its own profiles developed for this process. Lightroom does not use the processor developed by Pentax which is priority software. What you see displayed by Preview is actually the thumbnail in the raw file header and processed by your cameras firmware.

          They are two different processes neither is ether wright or wrong. Different and subject to individual preference. I actually prefer the blue in the Lightroom rendition.

          Lightroom provides lots of function that you can use to make adjustments to your likening.

          • 2. Re: Pentax RAW file photos do not display correcty in LR
            trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            If you are using LR's Adobe Standard Camera Calibration profile it will look different than the camera's JPEG image files. The Adobe Standard profile applies color and toning to the raw image file to achieve an image that looks the same (i.e. "Standard") regardless of the camera model used. This is what professionals such as wedding photographers require so that pictures shot with multiple cameras all have the same appearance.

             

            To achieve a similar look to the in-camera JPEG try using one of the "Camera" profiles provided for your camera model that appear under the Camera Calibration > Profile pull-down list. You should also be aware that the 'As Shot' White Balance (WB) setting may appear different than the in-camera JPEG and require adjustment.

             

            In order to achieve the best results with camera raw image files you will need to use a hardware display calibrator such as an i1 Display or Spyder device to adjust your monitor. I also suggest purchasing a white balance card and shoot it in at least one image on location for "normal" lighting conditions (Sunny Daylight, etc.) so that you can better determine the correct LR WB settings. The LR 'As Shot' camera reading is rarely accurate. Once you have determined this you can change your LR default settings for both WB and Camera Calibration profile. There's no need to shoot the White Card in every picture. Simply use it as a learning tool to determine the correct WB settings for your normal shooting conditions.

             

            Al of the above suggestions apply regardless of whether you're using LR or the camera manufacturers software for processing your raw image files.

             

            el búho wrote:

             

            Pictures are lacking detail and look muzzy.

            This is a totally different issue. Is this happening in the Library module, Develop module, both and at what Zoom setting do they look unsharp (Fit, Fill, 1:4, 1:1)? Also, are you using an external monitor with the laptop?

            • 3. Re: Pentax RAW file photos do not display correcty in LR
              Pentax User Level 1

              I fully agree with the two replies that you have already received but as a Pentax camera user from their original digital camera days, I would just add that it my opinion LR always been able to produce better results than any of the iterations of PDCU and still does today with the latest versions of both applications.

               

              I never had a K7 but would guess that the only profile you have is Adobe Standard and this is by default not giving you colours that you like. If the K7 supports in camera DNG RAW then you could try using that instead of PEF as the DNG will have an embedded colour profile that may be more in a Pentax style. Looking at the example you have given I would suggest that only a small adjustment of the white balance is required to correct the RAW image.

               

              As for lacking in detail then yes with default settings in PDCU and LR your images will look less sharp but with experience I think you will find that 'exported images' from LR 5.7 will produce far more detail with less noise than PDCU.

               

              May I ask how long have been using LR? It can be quite a difficult program to get used to but I would say well worth the effort.

              • 4. Re: Pentax RAW file photos do not display correcty in LR
                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                For the K-7, Adobe ships two profiles: Adobe Standard that looks the same across camera models and manufacturers and Camera Standard that tries to be more similar to the camera JPG treatment.  So select Camera Standard if you want something closer to what the camera does, though it won't be exactly the same:

                 

                As far as differences in detail, you're viewing a reduced-size image both with the OS viewer and LR so all bets are off in how each application resamples the full-resolution image to produce the smaller onscreen view, so they likely will be different.  The true test is viewing each at 1:1 or 100% zoom and seeing what the detail looks like.  The camera has likely applied some noise-reduction and sharpening whereas LR defaults to a little sharpening and no luminance noise-reduction so they will likely be quite different, and Adobe's raw conversion will look different than what the camera does since Pentax and Adobe each use their own proprietary methods to render the raw data.  I prefer LR's rendering to my various Nikon and Canon camera's any day, and especially appreciate being able to fine-tune things in LR much more than the few settings the camera allows.

                 

                The K7 sample raw came from this page:

                http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/pentax_k7_review/sample_images/

                • 5. Re: Pentax RAW file photos do not display correcty in LR
                  DdeGannes Adobe Community Professional

                  As far a I am concerned, if you wish to use LR/ACR as your raw processing engine its best to absolutely blank other options and concentrate using Lightroom/ ACR options, its different and you will never match anything your camera or other raw processing  software options provide.

                  Decide which raw processing option you wish to use and become proficient with the application.

                   

                  If it does not work for you try another application, the software provided by your camera manufacturer or the dozen or so other premium raw processing applications in the market. Make your choice and become proficient.

                   

                  To wit, why would you pay Adobe for a software program that provides you with the same process that is available for free from your camera manufacturer. They provide you with an alternative.

                  • 6. Re: Pentax RAW file photos do not display correcty in LR
                    El Búho Level 1

                    Thanks for all @your suggestions. Switching to Camera Standard does improve the accuracy of the colour balance image a bit. Further jiggling the colour Primarys & Saturations produces a much better result. However, I have not yet been able to find how to save these settings as a default/preset for the particular camera. Your suggestion of purchasing a white balance card is definitely a good option.

                     

                    As to the muzzy quality of the PEF images v the Jpegs. Even at 100% zoom there is a difference, but I'm now pretty sure that it's due mostly to the camera software sharpening the images when converting from to original PEF to Jpeg. (as suggested by I have not yet been able to replicate this effect exactly in LR, but I can see that it would be possible to improve this with perseverance.

                     

                    The Pentax Digital Camera Utility is an atrocious piece of software, but does produce nice Jpegs. I just need to find how to save and recall user presets or camera profiles in LR in order to replicate the results of PDCU.

                    • 7. Re: Pentax RAW file photos do not display correcty in LR
                      Geoff the kiwi Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Denis, is that necessary? What does it add?? Pentax do have the DNG option on at least some cameras so there is certainly some connection to Adobe software.

                      • 8. Re: Pentax RAW file photos do not display correcty in LR
                        ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Setting LR defaults is as simple as holding down the Alt key in Develop and choosing Set Default… and answering the question that you want to update the defaults to the current photo’s settings. 

                         

                        I would expect that the DNG option for raw format encoding will embed the Camera Standard profile in the DNG and that’s where Adobe got the profile from, but perhaps the DNG will have an even different camera profile.

                        • 9. Re: Pentax RAW file photos do not display correcty in LR
                          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          El Búho wrote:

                           

                          Thanks for all @your suggestions. Switching to Camera Standard does improve the accuracy of the colour balance image a bit. Further jiggling the colour Primarys & Saturations produces a much better result.

                          As ssprengel suggested try setting your Penatx K7 to DNG raw file format, which will embed a custom camera profile that LR will use. If your results with LR's default camera calibration settings (i.e. 0) are still unsatisfactory I suggest calibrating (or recalibrating) your display with an i1 Display or Spyder hardware device. I wouldn't even attempt to make fine adjustments to image files on a system with an uncalibrated display–You simply will be "misadjusting" the image to correct for display errors.

                           

                          For best results the display should be hardware calibrated to create a monitor profile with 6500 K Color Temperature, 2.2 Gamma, and 120 cd/m2 Luminance. If you've already done this try recalibrating the display using the above suggested settings.

                           

                          If your results still look "off-target" after hardware calibration I would suggest investing in a ColorChecker Passport and use it's LR Plugin application to create a custom camera profile. You'll will still need to measure and adjust the LR White Balance (WB) settings, which can be easily done using the ColorChecker Passport neutral patches or its White Balance target.

                           

                          El Búho wrote:

                           

                          As to the muzzy quality of the PEF images v the Jpegs. Even at 100% zoom there is a difference, but I'm now pretty sure that it's due mostly to the camera software sharpening the images when converting from to original PEF to Jpeg. (as suggested by I have not yet been able to replicate this effect exactly in LR, but I can see that it would be possible to improve this with perseverance.

                          LR's Detail panel Sharpening controls will allow you to set whatever capture sharpening level you desire. Good tutorial here on using the ALT/Option key with LR's Sharpening controls:

                           

                          Sharpen an image | Adobe Photoshop Lightroom tutorials

                          • 10. Re: Pentax RAW file photos do not display correcty in LR
                            El Búho Level 1

                            Laptop's display is already calibrated set as per your suggestions.

                             

                            Changing the camera's RAW file to format from its native PEF to DNG gives me an additional option in Camera Calibration once the image has been imported into LR, i.e. "Embedded". Selecting his option rather than "Camera Profile" or "Adobe Standard" displays an image in LR that in my case most closely resembles the Jpeg version, either produced by the camera or by PDCU in its tonal qualities (as viewed side by side in LR).

                             

                            Performing the above achieves my main goal and after watching the tutorial, I will be able produce images sharpened to best effect. For further colour accuracy I will give ColorChecker Passport a go.

                             

                            Thanking you all again for your suggestions.

                            • 11. Re: Pentax RAW file photos do not display correcty in LR
                              El Búho Level 1

                              Thanks for the short-cut to setting defaults. Also changing the camera's RAW setting to DNG produces a more realistic image in LR - better than the Adobe Standard, or Camera Standard

                              • 12. Re: Pentax RAW file photos do not display correcty in LR
                                trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Good to hear the embedded camera profile is providing better results. The Adobe standard profile works very well with most camera models and is pretty hard to improve on concerning color accuracy. However, small camera manufacturing variations can cause the results you are seeing. If your objective is to obtain "accurate" color rendering the ColorChecker Passport (CCPP) will help you achieve that goal for both color primaries and White Balance.

                                 

                                In addition to the CCPP you may want to look at the Adobe DNG Profile Editor for creating custom camera profiles:

                                 

                                http://wwwimages.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/photoshop/pdfs/cs6/DNGProfile_Edi torDocumentation.pdf

                                 

                                You can download the Adobe DPE here:

                                 

                                Adobe - DNG Profile Editor : For Macintosh : DNG Profile Editor 1.0.4

                                 

                                Enjoy!