7 Replies Latest reply on Dec 30, 2014 4:00 PM by MW Design

    color drops out of rich black on export

    Tara_Broadway

      I do preflighting for a publishing company that prints school magazines, so I receive files that were made in InDesign and exported to pdf, and I check them in Acrobat before passing them on to the printers. Our printer has asked us to use specific ink percentages for rich black (50/40/40/100), but I'm noticing that occasionally, some instances of rich black drop the yellow ink. It'll be fine in other parts of the document, but then one headline or one background appears as 50/40/0/100. I've ruled out user error (always my first assumption when working with schools) and if they re-export, the problem usually goes away, though sometimes it reoccurs in a different part of the document. I've seen this with many of my schools, so whatever it is, it's got to be something with the exporter. Has anyone else run into this? I know how to fix the colors on my end, but is there something I should tell the schools to do differently to prevent this problem?

        • 1. Re: color drops out of rich black on export
          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Is there any transparency involved—if you check the problem headline with Acrobat's Output Preview's Object Inspector is there a blending mode? It can't be a color conversion because a CMYK-to-CMYK conversion would change all 4 percentages.

           

          I can get Yellow to 0% by setting text with your rich black over a field of 100% Magenta with its Blend Mode set to Hard Light.

           

          Do they always use the same export preset?

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: color drops out of rich black on export
            Tara_Broadway Level 1

            It doesn't look like there's any transparency this time.

             

            Here's what the object inspector says:

            Filled text: Constant

              ColorSpace=DeviceCMYK

              Color Values= [0.50,0.40, 0.00, 1.00]

              Font=MinionPro-SemiboldIt, Size:45.00 Type:OpenType CFF

              Overprint = False OPM=1 ri=Relative Colorimetric

             

            It doesn't have a background. Here's a link to the file, if that helps. The headline "Editor's Note" is the problem.

             

            Theoretically, they're all using the High-Quality Print preset with some adjustments to the marks & bleeds and downsampling as requested by our printers.

            • 3. Re: color drops out of rich black on export
              Jeffrey_Smith Most Valuable Participant

              It would seem as though any error would produce color values like 53.56%C  32.68%M  0.03%Y  90.45%K.   I suspect the text was applied this color.


              Some other observations, when exporting for print, you should use the Press Quality preset, not the High Quality. My opinion, rich black should not be used on any text, as shown in your PDF.

              • 4. Re: color drops out of rich black on export
                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                It's hard to imagine how it could happen if the 50% yellow is in the ID file. Could you share the ID file? I agree with Jeffrey it is an odd use of rich black—the medium-sized text probably doesn't benefit from the added CMY.

                 

                Try running a few tests with a default PDF/X preset and see if it happens using an export standard.

                • 5. Re: color drops out of rich black on export
                  Tara_Broadway Level 1

                  I don't have the InDesign file, but I'll try to get it and see what we can do. The schools insist that the colors are correct on their end. I just don't know how so many of them could be making the same error, if that's what it is. Also, it seems like re-exporting fixes it.

                   

                  Thank you for the advice about the preset options. I'll discuss that with my boss.

                   

                  Our printer asked us to use rich black for any text larger than 30 points, so that's what we have to do. If you don't mind my asking, though, at what size would you recommend going to rich black?

                  • 6. Re: color drops out of rich black on export
                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    If you don't mind my asking, though, at what size would you recommend going to rich black?

                     

                    I don't think it's a problem—the only risk is the cmy showing if the page is off register, but that can be handled in the trapping.

                    • 7. Re: color drops out of rich black on export
                      MW Design Level 4
                      I don't have the InDesign file, but I'll try to get it and see what we can do. The schools insist that the colors are correct on their end. I just don't know how so many of them could be making the same error, if that's what it is. Also, it seems like re-exporting fixes it.

                      These two things seem completely at odds with each other. Either the mix isn't right or the PDF export is somehow being mishandled.

                       

                      With the SWOP profile your PDF has, and whether I am using High Quality or the Press Quality (or the PDF/X types) with that profile, I get a consistent 50/40/40/100 output. The screen shot is from a file I quickly rebuilt and the color picker in Acrobat is in the red circle.

                       

                      capture-002495.png

                       

                      What would be interesting to me if I was on the receiving end of that original ID file would be if it has the right CMYK mix, and if so, whether it output correctly. My guess is the inks are off in their file.

                       

                      Mike