A lot of the answers will be speculation unless someone has had experience with a very similar setup and workflow. Based on my own event coverage in the past, here are my guesses:
1) AVCIntra (100 and 50) Panasonic codecs and have no absolute size per duration. The size of the final file(s) will depend on what resolutions and other settings you choose to record with. If it's 1080HD or higher, it will be quite large for 6 hours of footage, even if it's just a single camera shoot.
2) You should have the fastest interface you can get. You mentioned you have a thunderbolt connection, so use that if possible.
3) It's a matter of preference mostly. You should do whatever makes the most sense for the event. For example, if it's 30 minute sets, break it up at 30 minute intervals. Or if there are no natural breaking points like that then it's up toy you weather it's easier to scrub through one long clip, or x number of shorter ones. If you do have to break it up into arbitrary-duration clips, then you should definitely keep it consistent and use logical increments (like 60, 30, 15 min...).
4) Probably, but it may be more of a question of how well your HD can keep up. Ultimately, you'll just have to test it and see.
Thank you so much for your info. I know I'll have to test some things to see what works and what doesn't.
I will be ingesting 1 feed, the live feed, from the broadcast.. so no need to worry about multiple angles/cameras.
Our event will be based on 3 runs, so I'll break up the capture for each run.
The overall goal is to capture and edit live, on the fly, to create a highlight roll out at the end of the show. If I edit to my HD or a USB 3.0 external, do you foresee any troubles with that workflow?
Thanks again for your help!!
It sounds like the HDs will work, but you'll need to test it and of course go with whatever is fastest. The trickiest part seems like the edit itself, especially if the program goes right up until the highlight reel needs to play. I know people who do that sort of thing, but I never have. You'll probably want a quiet place to do the editing without the distraction of the main event. I know this is how it's done at sport events... camera people rove the field and the audience, and their footage is sent back to an editing room where they can mix live and recorded video with pre-canned graphics and effects and then stream them right back up to the stadium monitors (jumbotron or whatever). It's a really high pressure thing and relies on a lot of hardware and people to work right. I don't know a lot of about the technical specifics of how they do it, but they do.
Ya will definitely do some testing in the next week. I'll have about 10 mins until the piece needs to play in the broadcast, so that's why I hope to edit to a song as the event goes on throughout the day. It is a sporting event, snowboarding actually, so I'll have a bit of down time throughout the day in between runs, course maintenance, etc. I plan on it being very high pressure, but I like that sort of thing The hope is to create a tight roll-out package, edited to music that will be played at the end of the broadcast and then uploaded to our digital outlets. Fingers crossed that it will all work as planned haha. Thanks again for your insight, I really appreciate it.
OK so I'm having some trouble working with Growing Files..
I'm recording via the Blackmagic Media Express to an external HD in ProRes LT. When I try to import that file into Premiere (while still recording with BMME) it gives me an error of "Unsupported Format or damaged file.". Any thoughts of how to get this to work? I also tried capturing into DVCPROHD format as well.
I have found by research that there is no support for growing files within a QT wrapper. Any thoughts on how to capture to MXF or AVCi50?
Any help would be much appreciated!
ProRes LT is supported and we have tested with the major media servers. Is the preference for growing files enabled in Media Preferences?
I'm not sure whether the Media Express is designed to produce 'grow-able' files. [Just because a file is being written, doesn't imply that it's being written in a way conducive to reading it as it grows. Similarly, files produced by PPro/AME renders are not guaranteed to be written in a growing-friendly fashion.
We know growing ProRes files from a properly-configured ingest server can work in PPro.
Thanks for the response. Could you recommend or outline a properly configured ingest server?
It'd be weird for the Integration Engineering Manager to recommend some of our partners, over others...I've provided some representative examples, of rigs with which PPro is known to work.
Here's one from EVS: http://www.evs.com/nala/product/xt3
Here's one from ToolsOnAir: http://www.toolsonair.com/2013/products_justin.php
Here's one from Dalet: http://www.dalet.com/platforms/brio
Here's one from Harmonic: http://www.harmonicinc.com/product/promedia-capture
Here's one from Primestream: http://www.primestream.com/products/overview/fork-production
Wow, thanks a lot for all of this info. We will have a TV truck on site which should have an EVS system... it just depends whether or not it has file sharing capabilities.
I also noticed that Bexel rents the EVS unit. This is my first dive into something like this, so I really appreciate the help!
Very glad to hear it!
Hi We use a similar setup to edit live content.
We have Mac Mini or Mac pro connected to the BM Ultrastudio 4K ingesting a PRORES LT growing file using TOOLS ON AIR Just:IN to an external USB3/TB drive.
We drag the file into PPro and set the refresh to 30sec, although clicking outside the app and back in force refreshes the file also.
We had to play a bit with the Preferences, disabling the XMP stuff just above the refresh setting in PPro, as we found adding markers to the clip rather than the project stops the ingest.
And also from what I can remember you cant export from PPro while the ingest is happening, although exporting via Media Encoder seems more stable, although I wouldnt recommend it.
We have also used PRORES, PRORES HQ and AVCi100 MXF. I would use the PRORES or the LT and a ballpark for our content is 1GB minute at 1080 50i. AVCi is heavy on the system and I would recommend a shared storage 1 MAC ingest, 1 mac Edit.
hope this helps.
Thanks for your reply!
It's great to hear other people out in the field having success with this. I'll probably try to ProRes LT the media.. or even AVCi50 since it will be web-only content.
I'll be sure to disable to XMP stuff so we don't get any freak outs during ingest haha.
I'll report back with my experience once the event is done!
XMP Nerd Note™: PPro writes XMP metadata into different places, for different file formats.
For QuickTime, we inject the XMP metadata directly into the file. You can imagine why this might cause problems when used on a file currently being grown/written by a different process.
For MXF-wrapped files (including AVC-I), we write the XMP metadata to a 'side car' file next to source file (<filename>.xmp); this allows for editing of metadata while the file is still growing.
Thanks for that info! Makes sense about the QT files. If I do go with ProRes, I'll disable the XMP.
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So the event and live ingest went great! I wrote a pretty detailed blog post about it here: http://mfcdesigns.com/adobe-premiere-pro-growing-files-for-live-editing/
Hope this helps people trying to do the same thing.
Thanks for all of the insight and help with this topic. These forums are great for connecting with other professionals!
Awesome news Marky! Love the blog post, thanks!
For all the pc users out there:
it should be possible to record growing files with any ffmpeg software and i found a free solution to capture growing MXF Op1a XDCAMHD 422 Files.
i could achieve the same result as MFCdesign.
just install http://www.casparcg.com/ the free and open source graphics and video play-out software
The use any supported Decklink Card like the Decklink HD Extreme in a Tower or the UltraStudio SDI USB 3.0 on a Laptop to get your SDI signal in to the PC
Install CasparCG properly, run the Server and type in this commands:
PLAY 1-1 Decklink Device 1 Format 1080i5000
ADD 1 FILE Test.MXF -VCODEC MPEG2VIDEO -B 50000K -minrate 50000k -maxrate 50000k -bufsize 8000k -BF 3 -PIX_FMT YUV422P -FLAGS+ILDCT+ILME
Now check your CASPAR CG Media Folder.
Here should you find a growing MXF that you can import in Prermiere Pro.
I was able to Record over 18h on a pc with casperCG, share the caspar media folder over a gigabit network (make shure your switch supports gigabit) an edit the event on a second PC with Adobe Premiere Pro CC15
works realy nice.
hopes this saves you time, i searched over 3 days before i found a free and working solution on a PC
I tested a lot with CasparCG in the last month and i should not have recommend it for recording growing files.
It is good for other things but not for capturing growing files in broadcast standard.
But i found a realy good software that can do it.
Check out the newest version of Medialooks Direct Take
or the daily build Nightly Version
It is also ffmpeg based but was build exactly for this purpose.
I found that this settings work the best for me with Premiere Pro CC
captureFormat='MXF (Material eXchange Format)' videoCodec='VC3/DNxHD 1080' audioCodec='(Uncompressed) PCM signed 16-bit little-endian' format='mxf' split_channels='1' video::codec='dnxhd' video::size='1920x1080' video::b='120M' audio::codec='pcm_s16le' audio::ar='48000'