23 Replies Latest reply on Jan 12, 2015 9:37 AM by ssprengel

    ColorChecker Passport

    NTyne

      I cannot get files that have been copied as DNG into lightroom to work with the ColorChecker Passport plug in.  If I use the stand alone adobe convertor they work.

       

      The files converted by lightroom also show as non valid DNG files when you try to use theColorChecker Passport stand alone profile creator.

       

      I am using a Mac on os x and the camera is a panasonic gh4.

        • 1. Re: ColorChecker Passport
          Modesto Vega Level 1

          The following could help to narrow down options: which versionLR? which version of LR?

          • 2. Re: ColorChecker Passport
            NTyne Level 1

            Lightroom version: 5.7.1 [994254]

            • 3. Re: ColorChecker Passport
              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Try using the native raw format, CR2, NEF, RAF, or whatever, instead of a copy-as-DNG raw files.

               

              The CCPP software is old so maybe there is some incompatibility with newer DNGs.  And make sure you’re using version 1.0.2 of the CCPP software.

               

              http://xritephoto.com/ph_product_overview.aspx?id=1257  (support tab)

              • 4. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                NTyne Level 1

                Taking that the software is old I have changed the preferences in lightroom and altered file handling compatibility to    "camera raw to 4.6 or later"   this has sorted the problem.

                 

                Thanks for your help

                • 5. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                  Modesto Vega Level 1

                  NTyne wrote:

                   

                  Taking that the software is old I have changed the preferences in lightroom and altered file handling compatibility to    "camera raw to 4.6 or later"   this has sorted the problem.

                   

                  Thanks for your help

                  This is interesting. I thought LR was independent from Camera Raw; I have read that many times. What you are saying questions that independence? Any comments by other contributors?

                  • 6. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                    ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    “Camera Raw” refers to the version of raw-processing code in Adobe products.  If you do Help / About Photoshop Lightroom, you’ll see the camera raw version of code listed.

                     

                    It also can be used to refer to the Photoshop-plug-in of the same name which is a habit because the ACR plug-in existed some years before Lightroom so us old-timers usually refer to the plug-in by ACR or Camera Raw without also including the phrase “plug-in” so it can be confusing.

                     

                    When “Camera Raw” is used in conjunction with Lightroom, it is referring to the code version not the PS plug-in, obviously. 

                     

                    In NTyne’s comment “Camera Raw” is what the DNG compatibility selections use to designate a DNG version, and are also referring to the raw-processing code version, not the PS plug-in.

                    • 7. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                      Simon G E Garrett Level 2

                      Also note that there is a bug in the Colorchecker Passport software (even the latest version 1.0.2) whereby it can't create dual illuminant profiles from very large raw files.  I don't know the exact limit, but 36 M pixel Nikon D8xx raw images cause it to fail, but using a DX crop (about 16 M pixels) is OK.

                      • 8. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                        Modesto Vega Level 1

                        ssprengel wrote:

                         

                        “Camera Raw” refers to the version of raw-processing code in Adobe products.  If you do Help / About Photoshop Lightroom, you’ll see the camera raw version of code listed.

                         

                        It also can be used to refer to the Photoshop-plug-in of the same name which is a habit because the ACR plug-in existed some years before Lightroom so us old-timers usually refer to the plug-in by ACR or Camera Raw without also including the phrase “plug-in” so it can be confusing.

                         

                        When “Camera Raw” is used in conjunction with Lightroom, it is referring to the code version not the PS plug-in, obviously.

                         

                        In NTyne’s comment “Camera Raw” is what the DNG compatibility selections use to designate a DNG version, and are also referring to the raw-processing code version, not the PS plug-in.

                        The bit that I personally find confusing is that it is not backward compatible but forward compatible. Camera Raw 8.7 does not seem to be compatible with 4.6, it makes 4.6 obsolete.

                        • 9. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          What are you talking about?  The ACR 4.6 is a DNG Compatibility specification used when converting a raw file to a DNG.   It tells the minimum version of ACR that can read the DNGs produced by the conversion.  ACR 7.1 is the default and most recent DNG Compatibility setting, so if you are using a very old version of the ACR plug-in then you need to change the DNG Compatibility specification to be used in the conversion.

                           

                          Here is the preferences area in LR for this DNG Compatibility version:

                           

                          A compatibility selection of ACR 4.6 allows the DNG to be used with CS3/ACR 4.6 or newer.

                          A compatibility selection of ACR 5.4 allows the DNG to be used with CS4/ACR 5.4 or newer. 

                          A compatibility selection of ACR 6.6 allows the DNG to be used with CS5/ACR 6.6 or newer.

                          A compatibility selection of ACR 7.1 allows the DNG to be used with CS6/ACR 7.1 or newer.

                           

                          A DNG with a newer compatibility setting like ACR 7.1 MAY be able to be used in an older ACR version but some things may not work and in certain circumstances it will not work at all, as in this case.

                          • 10. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                            Modesto Vega Level 1

                            ssprengel wrote:

                             

                            What are you talking about?

                            To get LR to read the DNGs that came Colorchecker Passport the OP has downgraded the Compatibility to Camera Raw 4.6 and later. This suggests that DNGs produced with earlier versions of Camera Raw are not compatible with newer versions of Camera Raw. This suggests that Camera Raw 7.1 is not backward compatible with Camera Raw 4.6 because it cannot be used to read 4.6 DNGs.

                             

                            This is most likely the reason why I don't use DNG.

                             

                            Have I missed something?

                            • 11. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              The initial post said:

                               

                              >> I cannot get files that have been copied as DNG into lightroom to work with the ColorChecker Passport plug in.

                               

                              This means that the new LR version was producing DNGs that the older CCPP software doesn’t recognize until the DNG compatibility level was reduced to ACR 4.6, until the DNGs were created in a format that an older ACR version could understand.

                               

                              You said:

                               

                              >> This suggests that DNGs produced with earlier versions of Camera Raw are not compatible with newer versions of Camera Raw.

                               

                              Nowhere in this post is anything about an old ACR (raw-engine) producing DNGs that a new ACR (raw-engine) cannot read.  We have a situation where the new raw-engine in the new LR set to a compatibility level of new raw engine by default (DNGC of ACR 7.1+) is producing newer-compatibility DNGs that the older CCPP software cannot understand.

                               

                              Maybe this is not clear:  there is a CCPP plug-in in LR, yes, but that plug-in is just calling the external CCPP software, and it is that external software, not LR, itself, that is having issues with the DNGs that it, itself, produced.

                              • 12. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                                NTyne Level 1

                                It looks as if the convertor within LR (latest version downloaded from adobe tech support) does not convert in the same way as the  Adobe DNG convertor stand alone program ver 8.7.1.311.

                                 

                                Files converted to DNG using the stand alone program will read using the ccpp plug in within LR and the ccpp stand alone app.

                                 

                                Files imported into LR using Copy to DNG will not work with the ccpp plug in and always stall during the scan with a report that the plug in cannot see the crop marks.  The same issue is seen when the file is exported from LR and it is dropped into CCPP stand alone program, in this case it report it as a non valid file.

                                 

                                Change the file handling compatibility setting down to 4.6 and later and the plug in produces a profile within the LR program without the need to use the external stand alone program to run the conversion before importation.

                                • 13. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                                  ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  Could you clarify:

                                   

                                  1) You said that DNG files converted in LR don't work in the CCPP program but then you said that changing the DNG Compatibility options with in LR allows them to work.   This seems inconsistent.  Is LR the determining factor in them working or not or is the DNG Compatibility set in the preferences the determining factor.

                                   

                                  2) You say that DNGs created with the LR-Import DNG Converter and the DNGs created with the standalone DNG Converter seem to work differently with the CCPP--one works one doesn't.  Both the DNG Converter and LR-Import-Copy-as-DNG have DNG Compatibility options you can set.  Have you tried setting the LR and the standalone converter options to ACR 4.6 and do they both work or does one work and one doesn't?

                                  • 14. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                                    NTyne Level 1

                                    I am getting repeatability issues whilst trying to run tests on these imports and may have had mislead you.

                                     

                                    I have shutdown the Mac and rebooted and the file compatibility setting within LR does not sort out the problem.

                                     

                                    My raw file from a gh4 is imported into LR using copy to dng.  I then run export to create a profile using the CCPP plug in. it reports cannot cannot detect crop marks.

                                     

                                    If I then transfer the file from the SD card onto the desktop and run the adobe dng convertor the file can be read with LR using CCPP plug in.  I have checked the compatibility within this program (adobe dng convertor)  and it was set to 4.6 or later.

                                     

                                    I am about to try changing it to 7.1 or later to see if this import works.

                                    • 15. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                                      NTyne Level 1

                                      Ok

                                       

                                      I think I have found my issue with repeatability.  It looks as if the file handling compatibility changes the initial import of the file.  I was changing the compatibility after it was imported thinking it would change the way in which the CCPP plugin would run.

                                       

                                      If you import (copy to DNG) a file with the compatibility set to 4.6 it will work

                                       

                                      If you import (copy to DNG) the same file with it set to 7.1 it will not

                                       

                                      I am now going to try the same with the stand alone adobe convertor and change the settings within that program creating a 4.6 file and a 7.1 and seeing if they work.

                                      • 16. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                                        NTyne Level 1

                                        Ok

                                         

                                        I think I have found my issue with repeatability.  It looks as if the file handling compatibility changes the initial import of the file.  I was changing the compatibility after it was imported thinking it would change the way in which the CCPP plugin would run.

                                         

                                        If you import (copy to DNG) a file with the compatibility set to 4.6 it will work

                                         

                                        If you import (copy to DNG) the same file with it set to 7.1 it will not

                                         

                                         

                                        Changing the setting in the stand alone convertor also has the same effect. 4.6 files work 7.1 don't

                                         

                                        The CCPP plug in must only be compatible with the older format DNG files?

                                        • 17. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                                          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          Exactly.

                                           

                                          See Adobe Raw Engineer Eric “Madman” Chan’s post about things near the end if this thread:

                                           

                                          http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=39466.0

                                          • 18. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                                            Modesto Vega Level 1

                                            NTyne wrote:

                                             

                                            The CCPP plug in must only be compatible with the older format DNG files?

                                            Yes, CCPP requires DNGs using DNG file specification 1.2. I cannot read DNGs with DNG file specification 1.3 and 1.4 (which is the current one).

                                             

                                            Personally, I think everybody, starting with myself, replying to your original question has very carefully avoided a key point: the File Preferences\Handling\Import DNG Creation\Compatibility settings controls LR's level of backward compatibility for DNG creation and most likely DNG reading. I have some DNGs on my library that most likely use DNG file specification 1.2, it is not easy to tell because unless I need to expand my knowledge, which I am glad to do, there is no easy way to tell what DNG file specification a DNG was created with. Also, it is not clear to me what happens to DNG files already existing in an LR catalog after a new DNG file specification is released or the Compatibility setting is changed. In any case, this is a question for another thread.  

                                            • 19. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                                              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              LR reads all the older DNGs with older DNG specifications.  The PLUG-IN CALLING THE CCPP SOFTWARE is what was wasn’t working, LR was working fine, otherwise it wouldn’t have been able to pass the DNGs onto the CCPP software.

                                               

                                              Changing the DNG Compatibility specification has no bearing on whether LR can read the DNGs—it can read all the older and newer specifications, it only matters to outside software.   The CCPP software is not LR so it is want cannot read the newer spec DNGs.

                                              • 20. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                                                Modesto Vega Level 1

                                                ssprengel wrote:

                                                 

                                                LR reads all the older DNGs with older DNG specifications.  The PLUG-IN CALLING THE CCPP SOFTWARE is what was wasn’t working, LR was working fine, otherwise it wouldn’t have been able to pass the DNGs onto the CCPP software.

                                                 

                                                Changing the DNG Compatibility specification has no bearing on whether LR can read the DNGs—it can read all the older and newer specifications, it only matters to outside software.   The CCPP software is not LR so it is want cannot read the newer spec DNGs.

                                                I don't understand why you feel the need to shout (by using capitals). I also don't understand why you are so protective of LR, LR is great, we are just trying to understand how it interacts with other software widely used by photographers and made by a another well respected company. I also don't understand why you need to blame squarely rite's CCPP, which is also a great piece soft software. Unless I have misread the thread completely, CCPP would not work with a DNG created using version 1.3 or above of the DNG file specification. If Compatibility settings are set to 4.6 or later, the DNG produced by LR will adhere to version 1.3 of the DNG file specification.

                                                 

                                                Do you disagree with this?

                                                • 21. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                                                  ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  I am protective of correct understanding and knowledge, with the capital letters emphasizing what seems to have been ignored or misunderstood over the first few replies.

                                                   

                                                  As far as what version of ACR indicates what version of DNG spec in the DNG Compatibility settings, I am unsure, but ACR 4.5 was the first version to support the DNG 1.2 spec that was the first to include the concept of camera profiles:

                                                   

                                                  http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/accessories/dng-profiles.shtml

                                                   

                                                  and it seems unlikely that ACR 4.6 would refer to the DNG 1.3 spec published more than a year, later, long after ACR 4.6 wasn’t the current version of ACR. 

                                                   

                                                  Reading the Digital Negative Wikipedia page, it appears that DNG 1.2 introduced camera profiles, DNG 1.3 introduced embedded lens distortion corrections needed for mirrorless automatic lens profile application, and the DNG 1.4 specification allows 32-bit HDR-image storage among other things.

                                                   

                                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Negative#Versions_of_the_specification

                                                   

                                                  I’m guessing that the CCPP software is confused by the lens distortion opcodes of the DNG 1.3 spec at least for mirrorless cameras.  The OP has not told us what camera they are using, have they?

                                                   

                                                  There are more DNG Compatibility levels specified in ACR version numbers (6: 2.4, 4.1, 2.6, 5.4, 6.6, 7.1) than there are DNG version levels (5: 1.0 to 1.4) and DNG Compatibility levels specified in the Custom DNG Compatibility levels in the DNG Converter, itself (3: 1.1, 1.3, 1.4) so something more complicated is going on with DNG Specs and ACR versions representing them.

                                                   

                                                  If you use EXIFtool or the online version, http://regex.info/exif.cgi to look at a DNG, you’ll see possibly 2 DNG version numbers, DNG Version and DNG Backward Version, which could be part of the complication.  Without seeing the actual code for the CCPP software it’s probably difficult to guess what exactly it’s choking on.

                                                  • 22. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                                                    Modesto Vega Level 1

                                                    It is good you like knowledge and correct understanding, whatever that is . Knowledge and correct understanding is based upon information. Below is a table with LR Camera Raw Compatibility levels (6 as you correctly said), Camera Raw versions (30, if I did not miss any) and a list Adobe DNG Converter versions (42, if I have not missed any). In the interest of knowledge what I would like to know is:

                                                     

                                                    1) which version of the DNG specification each version of the Adobe DNG Converter supports

                                                    2) If converting RAW files within LR, which versions of the DNG specification applies for each compatibility level.

                                                     

                                                    This is really my main interest in this thread and I cannot find that information anywhere, all I conclude from the thread is that 4.6 and later is likely to use DNG file specification 1.2 and 7.1 and later is likely to use DNG file specification 1.3 or 1.4 (my guess is 1.3).

                                                     

                                                    Happy to open a new thread if this is of any interest.

                                                     

                                                    LR Camera Raw Compatbility

                                                    Camera  Raw

                                                    Adobe DNG Converter

                                                    2.4

                                                    2.4

                                                    2.4

                                                     

                                                    3.1

                                                    3.1

                                                     

                                                    3.2

                                                    3.2

                                                     

                                                    3.3

                                                    3.3

                                                     

                                                    3.4

                                                    3.4

                                                     

                                                    3.5

                                                    3.5

                                                     

                                                    3.6

                                                    3.6

                                                     

                                                    3.7

                                                    3.7

                                                     

                                                    4.0

                                                    4.0

                                                    4.1

                                                    4.1

                                                    4.1

                                                     

                                                    4.2

                                                    4.2

                                                     

                                                    4.3.1

                                                    4.3.1

                                                     

                                                    4.4.1

                                                    4.4.1

                                                     

                                                    4.5

                                                    4.5

                                                    4.6

                                                    4.6

                                                    4.6

                                                     

                                                    5.1

                                                    5.1

                                                     

                                                    5.2

                                                    5.2

                                                     

                                                    5.3

                                                     

                                                    5.4

                                                    5.4

                                                    5.4

                                                     

                                                    5.5

                                                    5.5

                                                     

                                                    5.6

                                                    5.6

                                                     

                                                    5.7

                                                    5.7

                                                     

                                                    6.1

                                                    6.1

                                                     

                                                    6.2

                                                    6.2

                                                     

                                                    6.3

                                                    6.3

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    6.4

                                                     

                                                    6.4.1

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    6.5

                                                    6.5

                                                    6.6

                                                    6.6

                                                    6.6

                                                     

                                                    6.7

                                                    6.7

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    6.7.1

                                                    7.1

                                                    7.1

                                                    7.1

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    7.2

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    7.3

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    7.4

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    8.1

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    8.2

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    8.3

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    8.4

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    8.5

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    8.6

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    8.7

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    8.7.1

                                                    • 23. Re: ColorChecker Passport
                                                      ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                      There is no need to guess:  you can easily determine what DNG Version a particular DNG has by using ExifTool or http://regex.info/exif/cgi

                                                       

                                                      So to find out what DNG Version a LR or DNGC compatibility setting of ACR 7.1 maps to, just create a DNG and use one of those tools and look for the DNG Version and DNG Base Version items.