30 Replies Latest reply on Jan 31, 2015 10:51 AM by JimHess

    Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly

    elfreako Level 1

      I've only recently moved to Lightroom from using Photoshop/Bridge together, so I'm not 100% sure how saving files exported from Lightroom should go. But here's what I experience:

       

      • Base edit of file within Lightroom
      • In library view, right click on image -> Edit in -> Open as Smart Object in Photoshop
      • Perform all my necessary edits and such
      • File -> Save As, and save it to another location as a PSD file (totally different HDD)
      • Perform more edits....
      • Shortcut CTRL+S to save, and it saves it as the TIFF file under the location it was originally in within Lightroom

       

      Eh...? Am I missing something. It should just save as the original PSD I created when I went "Save As". I have seen on a few occasions, immediately after "Save As", the file name resorts back to TIFF and not as PSD.


      My settings for External Editing in Lightroom are as follows:

      • File Format: TIFF
      • Color Space: ProPhoto RGB
      • Bit Depth: 16 bits/component
      • Resolution: 300
      • Compression: None

       

      Does anyone have any ideas what I'm doing wrong? Also, to note, that sometimes I double click on the Smart Object within Photoshop to load Camera Raw and perform some edits, but not often.

        • 1. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
          ManiacJoe Adobe Community Professional

          Because the file has to be passed back to Lightroom after Photoshop is done editing it, Lightroom passes to Photoshop both the input file name and the output file name; a simple "file/save" in Photoshop is expected.

           

          Because you are doing an unexpected "file/save-as" in the middle of the process, things may not go as smoothly as designed.

           

          If you want the PS work backed up to another drive, I would do the "file/save-as" to the other drive after doing the expected "file/save".

          • 2. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
            JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            The whole "edit in" thing is programmed around opening the file from Lightroom to Photoshop, then doing your work in Photoshop and using the "Save" command to save that image and return to Lightroom. You are adding a "Save As" step in the middle, which isn't part of the workflow as it has been designed. The PSD file is getting in the way of an efficient Lightroom/Photoshop workflow. I think you need to reevaluate.

            • 3. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
              elfreako Level 1

              So does that mean I 'have to' save all my edited files in the same working collection/folder as my original files if I want it to work seamlessly.

              • 4. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                That's the way it's designed. I work almost exclusively with raw images. When I edit in Photoshop and return to Lightroom after having used the Save command I have two images. I have original raw file plus the TIF image that was saved by Photoshop. And that is the way the Lightroom->Photoshop workflow has been designed. If you use the "Save As" feature in Photoshop, that is going to save the file wherever you choose, but it won't be added to the Lightroom catalog automatically, and it won't be part of the Lightroom workflow. Photoshop is still going to save the TIF or PSD file, depending on how you have set your external editing options. This extra PSD that you are creating would then need to be imported into Lightroom if that is what you want. If you don't want it imported, and you don't want the TIF image, then after you have saved your PSD file you could just close Photoshop without saving your work.

                • 5. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                  rmphoto Level 1

                  Add me to elfreako's concern about how the saving of smart objects works when doing an initial "save as..." to a location other than where the source/raw file resides. I do what elfreako does all the time: edit in... > open smart object in Ps, then work in Ps and save the file elsewhere.

                   

                  If the current way Lr works (save back to disk containing the source/raw file) is as designed and considered correct, it's not correct for me for the following reason:

                  • Except for those raw files that reside on my working drive (recent work), the vast majority of my raw files reside on a tower of 2Tb external archive drives. Each of those archive drives is mirrored to another drive. Additionally, all the files on each drive are backed up to DVD/Bluray. For stability and longevity, I don't want any read/write activity going on with those archive drives with the exception that I will, from time to time, direct Lr to call up a raw image to be opened in PS as a smart object for further editing, compositing, etc. In essence, I view the archive drives as read-only. Once they are full and "put to bed", I don't want any new files being written to them.

                   

                  The work-around is to do the initial "save as..." of the Ps file to my working drive, then be sure to ALWAYS remember to use "save as..." (with the resulting dialog about replacing the existing file) whenever I want to update the file on disk. It's too easy to hit command-S (muscle memory) and accidentally write the file back to the archive drive - something I definitely DON'T want happening.

                   

                  I understand the allure of having the edited psd/tiff magically show up in the Lr catalog, but the downside is as I have described above. It would be nice to have the option in Preferences > External Editor to identify a target drop folder/drive for edited psd/tiff files. Seems like it wouldn't be a coding leap to instruct Lr to automatically catalog that file - regardless of where it's written.

                  • 6. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                    JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    I might be wrong, but I think you are not considering the full workflow of Lightroom. Remember that the original file, whether it be raw or JPEG or what ever, remains in its unaltered state in Lightroom. It's always possible to hit the reset button and wipe out all adjustments that is been made to the image and restore it to its default state as it appeared when first imported. All of the adjustments are stored in the catalog. By using Photoshop to create a working PSD in another folder, it seems to me that you are throwing away the benefits of working with the raw image data. But for Lightroom to be modified to accommodate your workflow would involve a feature request. Frankly, I don't know how much support you would hear from other users who have adopted the Lightroom workflow.

                    • 7. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                      rmphoto Level 1

                      The benefits of the Lr workflow, as you describe them, are wonderful; I use them fully. But that workflow is simply not correct for the specialized case we're discussing here, i.e., one where a raw file is opened as a smart object in Photoshop for the purpose of retaining maximum editing flexibility in a layered file. There are several reasons to do this:

                      1. Create a master tiff file that still retains the ability to have the raw data edited/adjusted by ACR from within the tiff.
                      2. Create multiple iterations of that raw data (via New Smart Object via Copy) within the layered tiff in which each layer can be adjusted radically differently within ACR, then masked together as need be to create a final image.
                      3. And a whole host of other things that can only be performed with Ps, like creating channel-derived layer masks, using layer blending modes, compositing, and on and on.


                      The vast majority of Lr users are happy with a self-contained Lr workflow, and what you describe fills 100% of their needs.

                      On the other hand, I spend much of my post-production time preparing my images for advertising uses and corporate publications. If a well-adjusted raw file fills the bill, I happily export it from Lr and be done. On the other hand, however, there are many times when a layered Ps file is required to meet client expectations. And I DON"T want that layered tiff - often a gigabyte or more in size - to be saved to the archive drive.

                      • 8. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                        elfreako Level 1

                        I agree with rmphoto, however, it seems that this does not cater for our specific needs. We will either need to change our work flow to suit Lightroom, or deal with it by our current work around.

                         

                        Just an FYI, my main reason for saving on a different drive/location is that an edited photo can become 1Gb or more in size, depending on how much I process it in Photoshop. Combining my terabytes of photos plus terabytes of the edited PSDs won't both fit on one hard drive (plus I don't like my all my eggs in one basket).

                        • 9. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                          JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          The real truth here is that there is no one way to do it. I don't relate to your workflow, and you don't relate to mine. I was just describing the way I see the "standard" Lightroom workflow. You have to design what's best for you. And if you can make a good case for making a change in how files are saved, the more power to you.

                          • 10. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                            rmphoto Level 1

                            I've posted the issue to the feedback.photoshop.com site:

                            Problem: Externally edited files opened from Lr save back to same drive as raw source file. Read on for more details...

                            As I understand it, Adobe staff folks check in there regularly.

                             

                            Feel free to weigh in there if this is an issue for you.

                            • 11. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                              Modesto Vega Level 1

                              Just a few random observations that might have already been made earlier on the thread (sorry I have done a quick read).

                               

                              1) When editing externally LR creates a file and adds it to the catalog, for instance a PSD file, before LR passes control to the external program, the file does not get created when it is saved on the external program, when save is hit on the external program an already created file is updated

                               

                              2) I often short-circuit the process in the way described by rmphoto, typically if mid-way through editing the file I decide to do a black an white conversion but want to re-use any edits for a colour version. When I do this, I save the file to the same folder as the original and later on import it into LR

                               

                              3) When I start editing photographs outside LR, I tend to branch them to a sub-folder inside the folder in the library. Let's said I have a RAW filename.nef on a 201501 folder. If I am going to edit this file externally, I typically create a subfolder within that folder, move the file to the subfolder, and edit the file from the subfolder (all within LR); I could end up with filename.nef, filename.psd, filename_BW_Selenium.psd, filename_BW_fineart.psd.

                               

                              I do 3 because I cannot think of another way of quickly identifying which files have undergone that type process. I could stack them but stacks are not as visible as folders.

                              • 12. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Modesto Vega wrote:

                                 

                                1) When editing externally LR creates a file and adds it to the catalog, for instance a PSD file, before LR passes control to the external program, the file does not get created when it is saved on the external program, when save is hit on the external program an already created file is updated

                                 

                                This statement is true when Lightroom and Photoshop are not synchronized. In other words, the version of Camera Raw being used by Photoshop is older than the version Lightroom is compatible with. And it's only created as you have described if the user chooses to "open a copy that includes the Lightroom adjustments." However, if Lightroom and Photoshop are synchronized, meaning at the same Camera Raw level, that PSD or TIF file isn't created until the end of the Photoshop session. That gives the user the opportunity to not save the Photoshop work if desired, and not have to be concerned with an unwanted extra file in Lightroom.

                                • 13. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                  Modesto Vega Level 1

                                  However, if Lightroom and Photoshop are synchronized, meaning at the same Camera Raw level.

                                  Thanks Jim, since it has been mentioned in another thread Hi can anyone help,  Crop problems in Lightroom, could you please expand on this? What does it exactly mean (synchronised and same Camera Raw level mean) in terms of CC and CS going forward and historically?

                                  • 14. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                    JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Lightroom 5.7.1 is expecting to pass an image to Photoshop using Camera Raw 8.7.1.

                                    If the user is using Lightroom 5.7.1, and has Camera Raw 8.7.1 installed, they are synchronized and Lightroom doesn't create the TIF or PSD first. The choice to save is made at the end of the Photoshop session. The image is converted and is no longer raw image data, but the file is not created in the passing from Lightroom to Photoshop. The data are converted, but that is all.

                                     

                                    If the user is using Lightroom 5.7.1, and Camera Raw is an older version than 8.7.1 then the two programs are not synchronized, and the user can have the choice of passing the TIF or PSD file that includes all Lightroom adjustments OR to open anyway. If the version of Camera Raw is significantly older, choosing the open anyway option will open the file in Photoshop without creating the TIF or PSD, and some of the Lightroom adjustments may not carry through because the older version of Camera Raw doesn't see those new adjustments.

                                     

                                    What can sometimes happen is that the user will make the choice to open anyway and also to not ask again. Then as their version of Camera Raw becomes more out of date the possibility of not converting all of the adjustments from Lightroom increases. I assume that you are aware that the Camera Raw plug-in is used in the process of transferring the image from Lightroom to Photoshop.

                                    • 15. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                      rmphoto Level 1

                                      1) When editing externally LR creates a file and adds it to the catalog, for instance a PSD file, before LR passes control to the external program, the file does not get created when it is saved on the external program, when save is hit on the external program an already created file is updated

                                       

                                      Modesto -

                                      Right you are. I've run some more tests and further clarified the issue in my head. I was mistaken earlier in describing the save behavior of Smart Object tiffs opened from within Lr:

                                       

                                      In the case of "Open as Smart Object in Photoshop"

                                      If you choose "Open as Smart Object in Photoshop", Lr does just that: Opens a layered tiff in Photoshop with the only layer being a smart object of the processed raw file with access to ACR to make further parametric edits.

                                      No file is written to disk at that point. So far so good.

                                      If you hit Save As as your initial save action and choose a destination disk other than the raw source disk, then hit Save upon further edits, the file continues to be updated to that destination disk. This is GOOD.

                                      There is a problem if you hit Save (as opposed to Save As) as your initial save, in which case the file is written to the raw source disk. This is NOT GOOD.

                                      There has a fairly easy work-around - in fact, not even a work-around, just a best practice. And that is to be sure to do your initial save of the edited file as Save As.  There is, of course, the extra step of manually importing that tiff into Lr if you wish to have it as part of the catalog.


                                      In the case of "Edit in [external editor]..."

                                      If you choose "Edit in..." and select a third party plug-in or app (such as Tonality), Lr first writes a tiff to disk and adds it to the catalog, then hands it off to the third party app. This is as Modesto describes in the quote above.

                                      The problem (as I've described above) is that the file is written to the raw image source disk.

                                      It would be nice to have the option (perhaps in Preferences > External Editing) to choose a folder/drive as the default save location for the external editor while at the same time, cataloging that tiff into Lr.

                                      • 16. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                        JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Regarding your example of using Tonality, you are right. It cannot work with the raw image data. Photoshop cannot work with the raw image data. Since Lightroom and Photoshop are both Adobe products I suppose the feature you are seeking could be added. It might be more of a challenge to convince third-party plug-in creators to adopt your idea.

                                        • 17. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                          Modesto Vega Level 1

                                          I am really curious why do you feel the need to do this. The reason for my curiosity is that I find I can learn from the workflow followed by others.

                                          choose a destination disk other than the raw source disk

                                          I agree this would be nice:

                                          It would be nice to have the option (perhaps in Preferences > External Editing) to choose a folder/drive as the default save location for the external editor while at the same time, cataloging that tiff into Lr.

                                          Really curious about what JimHess reply would be. I noticed that LR is now aware of what other Adobe products are installed. I have a vague recollection that this was not the case before the CC and the subscription model was launched.

                                          • 18. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                            JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            Lightroom has always been aware of what version of Camera Raw is being used by the installed Photoshop. Nothing has changed in that regard with Photoshop CC. Adobe could probably add the option to choose a folder for the new file created by Photoshop. However, I don't know if it would carry over to third party add-ons. And I don't know how many people feel they need such an option. Most of the responses I have read have been that the resulting PSD or TIF file isn't saved in the same folder with the original. Personally, I don't feel the need for that option. And, frankly, I think if the OP reevaluated the workflow it would be found that it really isn't necessary.

                                             

                                            Perhaps I can elaborate on why I don't think the feature is necessary. I'm not trying to convince anyone to use my workflow. But if I decide to edit an image in Photoshop, that decision will have been made after I have done everything that I need to do with the raw file. So then I open the image in Photoshop to finish it. When that TIF image is returned to Lightroom it is stacked with the original. I can now collapse the stack so that the only image I'm concerned with is the TIF image. I can move back and forth between Lightroom and Photoshop. The TIF image can have all of the layers left intact. If I decide I want to try something different then I can expand the stack and highlight the raw image again and choose to edit in Photoshop. Then I will have two TIF images In my stack. I can choose which one I want on the top of the stack, and still only have one image showing in Lightroom. Personally, I prefer having all the images in the same folder, stacked together. From my perspective, it would just complicate things to have images in different folders. I would just have to create a collection in order to pull them back together again.

                                            • 19. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                              Modesto Vega Level 1

                                              Replying to your last 3 posts.

                                               

                                              Re Camera Raw being used to pass an image to Photoshop

                                              a) I am assuming this is independent of the Compatibility level in Preferences\File Handling DNG creation.

                                              b) Does the same apply to other photo editing software made by Adobe like Elements?

                                              c) Assume that I have LR 5.7.1 and CS5. Is Camera Raw is still used to pass an image to Photoshop? If so, why is there a need to get LR to behave differently?

                                              d) Sometimes it does seem as if Adobe might be using Camera Raw updates and process version updates to get consumers to change their habits, this includes having to buy subscriptions or having to change workflow to some ideal that somebody at Adobe or working with Adobe might have in mind.

                                               

                                              Re stacks

                                              I find impossible to see collapsed stacks on the film strip. Stacks are only visible on the Library module and using a grid view; I don't say clearly visible because they are only recognisable by the label at the top left corner with the image count; I don't even think it is possible to change the colour of that label or the grey colour surrounding an image. Also I cannot name stacks. If I could name stacks, see them as virtual folders underneath a library folder and make them glaringly visible I would use them extensively.

                                               

                                              Re storing your Raw files and processed files in separate locations

                                              Assuming Raw files are negatives and Photoshop files are transparencies or prints, would you want negatives being handled/read on a regular basis? If anything happens to your negatives, you would never be able to produce another print or another transparency again.

                                               

                                              I have worked extensively with databases and database systems, it is a standard feature of database systems to be able to choose where to store different database objects. I don't see why LR cannot do the same, it is a database after all. I do agree with both the OP and photo.

                                              • 20. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                                JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                Modesto Vega wrote:

                                                 

                                                Replying to your last 3 posts.

                                                 

                                                Re Camera Raw being used to pass an image to Photoshop

                                                a) I am assuming this is independent of the Compatibility level in Preferences\File Handling DNG creation.

                                                b) Does the same apply to other photo editing software made by Adobe like Elements?.

                                                 

                                                Reply: Yes, the principle is the same. Photoshop Elements cannot read raw data either. That's why it has to be converted before it's opened.

                                                c) Assume that I have LR 5.7.1 and CS5. Is Camera Raw is still used to pass an image to Photoshop? If so, why is there a need to get LR to behave differently?

                                                 

                                                Reply: Camera Raw is used IF you choose the option to open anyway. Then Camera Raw will be used to convert the image that's opened in Photoshop. But since it is older than Lightroom some of the new adjustments might not be transferred to Photoshop. That's why there is a need to let the user make the choice.

                                                 

                                                d) Sometimes it does seem as if Adobe might be using Camera Raw updates and process version updates to get consumers to change their habits, this includes having to buy subscriptions or having to change workflow to some ideal that somebody at Adobe or working with Adobe might have in mind.

                                                 

                                                Reply: The fact is that in the past, when a new version of Photoshop is released then all support and updates cease for the previous version. Since the introduction of the creative cloud, at least users of Photoshop CS6  get support for new cameras. They just don't get the new features. Yes, there's motivation to upgrade. Adobe is a business. What do you really expect?

                                                 

                                                Re stacks

                                                I find impossible to see collapsed stacks on the film strip. Stacks are only visible on the Library module and using a grid view; I don't say clearly visible because they are only recognisable by the label at the top left corner with the image count; I don't even think it is possible to change the colour of that label or the grey colour surrounding an image. Also I cannot name stacks. If I could name stacks, see them as virtual folders underneath a library folder and make them glaringly visible I would use them extensively.

                                                 

                                                Reply: The only reason I can think of that you are unable to see collapsed stacks on the filmstrip is if you have the filmstrip reduced in size to the point that Lightroom can't display all the icons. I'm able to see the collapsed stacks in the library grid view and on my filmstrip

                                                 

                                                Re storing your Raw files and processed files in separate locations

                                                Assuming Raw files are negatives and Photoshop files are transparencies or prints, would you want negatives being handled/read on a regular basis? If anything happens to your negatives, you would never be able to produce another print or another transparency again.

                                                 

                                                Reply: The raw files or the negatives, as you put it, are never modified by Lightroom. They always remain in their pristine state they were in when they were imported. If I have a backup of that raw file then I can do whatever I want to the one in my working folder. Resetting that raw file so that it looks unaltered is just a click away.

                                                 

                                                I have worked extensively with databases and database systems, it is a standard feature of database systems to be able to choose where to store different database objects. I don't see why LR cannot do the same, it is a database after all. I do agree with both the OP and photo.

                                                 

                                                Reply: Well, I won't argue that point. If that's what you really want than lobby for it. It just won't get my vote because I don't see any real advantage.

                                                If you read back through this quoted message you'll find that my replies are included. I don't know how to separate them out so they are highlighted properly. Read through it and think about it. But personally, I don't want to waste anymore time on this discussion because it isn't accomplishing anything in my opinion. It seems clear to me that you don't fully understand the relationship between Camera Raw and Lightroom yet. And until you get that under your belt there really isn't much else to discuss.

                                                • 21. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  This could be easily implemented by adding a separate option check box titled 'Save Location Prompt' in the Preferences> External Editing tab. When this option box is checked a dialogue box will pop-up for every 'Edit In' command with a browse field for selecting the drive 'Save To" location. The location should be "sticky" and also offer a list of the most recently used locations. Lightroom should also automatically add the PS edited image file to the image database when the 'Save' command is used inside PS. This way Keywords, Ratings, and all other LR database resident tags associated with the raw file will be automatically added to the TIFF file.

                                                   

                                                  I use InDesign for creating books and other documents that contain linked TIFF files created using LR's 'Edit In PS' command. In many cases I prefer to save these linked image files to a separate subfolder inside my InDesign project folder, but keep the camera raw files where they were originally imported. Having the above capability makes a lot of sense to me!

                                                  • 22. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                                    JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    I probably have a workflow that is just far too simplified. And my simple mind is probably too old to wrap around new ideas. It probably is a good idea to have that option.

                                                    • 23. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                                      rmphoto Level 1

                                                      trshaner wrote:

                                                       

                                                      This could be easily implemented by adding a separate option check box titled 'Save Location Prompt' in the Preferences> External Editing tab. When this option box is checked a dialogue box will pop-up for every 'Edit In' command with a browse field for selecting the drive 'Save To" location. The location should be "sticky" and also offer a list of the most recently used locations. Lightroom should also automatically add the PS edited image file to the image database when the 'Save' command is used inside PS. This way Keywords, Ratings, and all other LR database resident tags associated with the raw file will be automatically added to the TIFF file.

                                                      Yup, I think you've got it exactly right. Adding this option would make Lr a truly universal hub for almost any workflow imaginable. Feel free to weigh in at the feedback site:

                                                      Lightroom 5: Externally edited files opened from Lr save back to same drive as raw source file. Read on for more details…

                                                      • 24. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                                        Modesto Vega Level 1

                                                        Thanks Jim this was very useful, I have thought about it before replying. These are my comments:

                                                        JimHess wrote:

                                                         

                                                        Reply: Camera Raw is used IF you choose the option to open anyway. Then Camera Raw will be used to convert the image that's opened in Photoshop. But since it is older than Lightroom some of the new adjustments might not be transferred to Photoshop. That's why there is a need to let the user make the choice.

                                                         

                                                        Perhaps, I am missing something here, if I have please do tell me so. I am reading this and the rest of thread concerning having synchronised Adobe software as saying:

                                                         

                                                        Option 1 - Carry out the external edit and perhaps, depending how far apart they are, loose some of the adjustments

                                                         

                                                        Option 2 - Don't carry out external edits unless you upgrade, currently to a CC subscription

                                                         

                                                        I honestly fail to see how these are two options. Please before you comment read the next point.

                                                         

                                                        JimHess wrote:


                                                        Yes, there's motivation to upgrade. Adobe is a business. What do you really expect?

                                                        I don't object to been motivated to upgrade, I do upgrade but at my pace not at a pace dictated by Adobe. The problem is that Adobe has removed the option of upgrading at a pace controlled by its customers. To get the latest Photoshop I need a CC subscription, and as soon as I have a CC subscription I have lost partial or full control of the timing of my software upgrades; even if could stay on CC2014 without upgrading for up to 4 years, with the current subscription model it would not make too much sense.

                                                         

                                                        JimHess wrote:

                                                         

                                                        Re stacks

                                                        Reply: The only reason I can think of that you are unable to see collapsed stacks on the filmstrip is if you have the filmstrip reduced in size to the point that Lightroom can't display all the icons. I'm able to see the collapsed stacks in the library grid view and on my filmstrip

                                                        I will open a new thread for this once I figure out what is going on.

                                                        • 25. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                                          elfreako Level 1

                                                          This basically sums it up for me too. I'll see about adding my 2 cents worth on the Feedback site. Cheers

                                                          • 26. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                                            trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                            JimHess wrote:

                                                             

                                                            I probably have a workflow that is just far too simplified. And my simple mind is probably too old to wrap around new ideas. It probably is a good idea to have that option.

                                                            Jim, keeping it simple works best! PS is a good example of an application that has become so loaded down with features and capability that is far from simple to learn and use. Adobe's original intent with LR was to create an easy to use application for digital photographers and I think they want to keep it that way. Things like layers and CMYK are much harder to implement in a non-destructive editor like LR and would require a higher-performance system ($$$). Adobe gave us a "hook" with Edit in PS–Now all they need to do is "improve" its capability.

                                                             

                                                            IMHO implementing this as a LR Preferences option will have ZERO impact on LR's ease-of-use. If you don't need it you won't see it and if you do you'll quickly learn how to use it!

                                                             

                                                            I've added my comment and vote at the Feature Requesthttp://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/problem-externally-edited-files-open ed-from-lr-save-back-to-same-drive-as-raw-source-file-read-on-for-more?rfm=1site.

                                                            • 27. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                                              Modesto Vega Level 1

                                                              Keeping it simple works best. Adobe should keep Lr true to its original intent.  I've also added a comment and vote to the Feature Request site.

                                                              • 28. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                                                JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                This discussion has gone on long enough. I still don't think you understand the relationship between Camera Raw (the plug-in) and Lightroom. Nor do I feel that you understand what has to be done. I will summarize your two options.

                                                                 

                                                                If you want to keep all of your adjustments that you have made in Lightroom, and you are using an older version of Photoshop/Camera Raw, some of your Lightroom adjustments might not transfer to Photoshop because the Camera Raw plug-in is used to demosaic the image. That process must be done or the image cannot be opened in Photoshop. Some users want to open the image anyway, giving up some of their adjustments made in Lightroom. Some users mistakenly think they are still working on raw image data in Photoshop. They are not. Photoshop cannot edit raw image data.

                                                                 

                                                                If a user chooses to create a copy of the Lightroom-adjusted image that includes all of the Lightroom adjustments, then Lightroom creates the TIF or PSD image and sends that to Photoshop, and the Camera Raw plug-in is completely bypassed. It isn't needed because the file is one that can be opened in Photoshop.

                                                                 

                                                                Consequently, there needs to be a choice in Lightroom. Some users don't want to be bothered with having the extra TIF file to delete if they choose not to save their Photoshop work. In that case, they might choose to open anyway even though some of their adjustments might be lost. It really isn't that complicated. You just need to understand what is going on. You can lobby for the feature you are looking for. I can see that it could have some merit in some situations. But it likely will spur more questions here in the forum from users asking why their TIF or PSD file isn't being stored in the same folder with the original raw file. It doesn't matter. We'll be answering the "why" questions either way.

                                                                • 29. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                                                  Modesto Vega Level 1

                                                                  JimHess wrote:

                                                                   

                                                                  I still don't think you understand the relationship between Camera Raw (the plug-in) and Lightroom. Nor do I feel that you understand what has to be done. I will summarize your two options.

                                                                   

                                                                  It must the way I word my posts because this is the second time I get an MVP in this forum making a comment like the one above. I wouldn't take personally .

                                                                   

                                                                  From a systems architecture perspective, I find very interesting: 1) the way Adobe is using Camera Raw as a data exchange mechanism and as a hook to get us upgrading and 2) how sensitive any questions relating Camera Raw and the role it plays are. It is really fascinating and gives a lot of food for thought.

                                                                   

                                                                  Anyway, your are tight this conversation has gone on for too long.

                                                                  • 30. Re: Saving PSD files after exporting from Lightroom saves incorrectly
                                                                    JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                    You didn't read my explanations. I can't force you to do that. I didn't mean to upset you. I really was trying to help. A lot of people are not happy with the Camera Raw situation, and the need to update and sometimes upgrade in order to have what they need. You will have to take on the Adobe Corporation and convince them otherwise. I'm just trying to explain how it works. You may not like it. But at this point there really isn't anything you can do about it.