16 Replies Latest reply on Feb 1, 2015 1:35 PM by A.T. Romano

    MTS/MPEG Clip- Quality reduced after rendering?

    LMVideo

      Source video:  MTS/MPEG 1440 x 1080, 29.27 frame rate, 1.1 avg. data rate, pixel aspect ratio- 1.3333

       

      Imported file from computer to HDV project.

       

      Viewing the clips in the timeline, the quality is great (on computer and TV monitor). However, once I apply any effect requiring a render, the quality degrades.

       

      What am I missing here?

       

       

      Thanks!

       

      John

        • 1. Re: MTS/MPEG Clip- Quality reduced after rendering?
          LMVideo Level 1

          Wondering if only the render is lower quality and the final output movie will be better (original) quality,

          Playback settings are External device DV:  29.97 720 x 480 (only choice?)

          • 2. Re: MTS/MPEG Clip- Quality reduced after rendering?
            A.T. Romano Level 7

            John

             

            When you Timeline render the Timeline content, you should then be getting the best possible preview.

            It is your window of opportunity to correct a problem sooner than later.

            The Timeline render is not affecting the video other than giving you the best preview that the program can give

            for your video as played back in the Edit area monitor.

             

            What version of Premiere Elements are you using and on what computer operating system is it running?

             

            You say that your video is from a HDV project. If so, I am not sure where you are getting the mts in your description of the file.

             

            If HDV project, I would expect a MPEG2.mpg file 1440 x 1080 HD anamorphic 16:9. Or if split clips from capture firewire into

            a program such as HDVSplit, then MPEG2.m2t. Also, for the frame rate, do you mean 29.97 and not 29.27? And, please confirm

            what the data rate of 1.1 that you posted. What are the units for that data rate - MB/sec (megabytes per second)? And, could

            you give some of the most frequent effects that you are applying to this video to give you lower quality after Timeline render?

             

            Generalizing - your Premiere Elements project preset should be NTSC/HDV/HDV/1080i30.

             

            If you decide to compare the rendered preview look with the playback of the export, please look at

            the export in your program's sharing area which would be representative of 1920 x 1080i30.

             

            We can fine tune the details once you have the information requested.

             

            Thanks.

             

            ATR

            • 3. Re: MTS/MPEG Clip- Quality reduced after rendering?
              LMVideo Level 1

              Premiere Elements 11

              Win 7 Pro 64 bit, i7, 256GB SSD + 2TB HDD, GeForce GT640 graphics

               

              Video shot with Sony Cyber Shot camera in HQ mode (AVC HD 9M, 1440x1080 (60i)

               

              .MTS files transferred from camera memory stick to editing computer, uploaded into a new project.

               

              Wondering if...

               

              Perhaps I should have started with forced project settings specific to video footage format? (instead of default:  NTSC-AVCHD-Full HD 1080i 30)I

               

              Prior to applying anything to the clips in the Timeline, the video quality seems flawless. Very sharp. As soon as I even apply a Fade in and render, video starts to get a little fuzzy; not as sharp.

               

              Looking thru "The Muvipix.com Guide", I'm not seeing anything that specifically addresses this.

               

              Thx for your help

              • 4. Re: MTS/MPEG Clip- Quality reduced after rendering?
                LMVideo Level 1

                Additional info/questions:

                 

                What impact does the following have with regard to maintaining original footage quality when importing, rendering?

                 

                - Upper Field First, 16:9, 29.97fps, 1.3333 rate

                 

                PROJECT SETTINGS:

                Render [ x ] Max Bit Depth

                Capture:  HDV

                Edit Mode:   HDV 1080i (29.97fps)

                Video Frame Size:  1440 x 1080

                30fps Drop Frame

                PLAYBACK SETTINGS:

                [ x ] Desktop Video Display, External Device:  DV: 29.97 720 x 480i

                Export External Device:   NONE

                24p Conversion Method:   Interlaced Frame

                 

                I'm going to try a different project setting this time (first/default was AVCHD-Full HD 1080i 30).... Now trying a Forced Setting of:   AVCHD HD 1080i 30  1440 x 1080i

                • 5. Re: MTS/MPEG Clip- Quality reduced after rendering?
                  LMVideo Level 1

                  Also, under PREFERENCES, TIMELINE RENDER QUALITY, which is the optimum setting:

                   

                  - Draft Quality, High Speed    or    - High Quality, Slow Speed

                   

                  ?

                  • 6. Re: MTS/MPEG Clip- Quality reduced after rendering?
                    LMVideo Level 1

                    The properties on the video clips before bringing them into Premiere are:

                     

                    AVCHD Video (.MTS)

                    1440 x 1080

                    Date Rate:  10559kbps

                    Total Bitrate:  10815kbps

                    Frame Rate:  29 fps

                     

                    I can view these (w/o any effects or rendering) in the Project Playback Window and the quality is sharp.

                    I can also play the video (with or without edits, before & after saving in HD mode) in Windows Movie Maker w/o any noticeable change in the quality (sharpness).

                    • 7. Re: MTS/MPEG Clip- Quality reduced after rendering?
                      A.T. Romano Level 7

                      LMVideo

                       

                      The project preset for the project should match the properties of the source media in order to direct the program to set up the correct space in the Edit area monitor.

                      The project preset has obvious and subtle effects on the workflow.

                       

                      If your source is described specifically as 1440 x 1080 (60i)...remembering that 60i represents 60 fields per second and 29.97/30 interlaced frames per second,

                      then you use...

                      NTSC

                      HDV

                      HDV 1080i30

                      You do not want an alternative.

                       

                      If you want to the export to come as closely as possible to the properties of the import, then you look in Publish+Share/Computer/ for

                      a. comparable format with comparable bitrate and other properties. For example...

                      Publish+Share

                      Computer

                      MPEG

                      with preset = MPEG2 1920 x 1080i30

                      The reason that we are using the 1920 x 1080 16:9 instead of the 1440 x 1080 is to avoid the dependency of the player recognition of a 16:9 flag which

                      is required for the 1440 x 1080 to display at 1920 x 1080 16:9.

                       

                      We want the bitrate of the export to be a high as the bitrate of the import, so we go under the Advanced Button/Video Tab of the preset to assure that.

                      Left at preset default

                      Bitrate

                      Minimum 18 Mbps

                      Target 25 Mbps

                      Maximum Mbps

                       

                      What is the bitrate for your original that you imported into the project?

                       

                      Right now, just focus on the above. We can explore

                      24p Conversion Methods and the like

                      ATR Premiere Elements Troubleshooting: PE: 24p Conversion Methods, Pulldowns, and Related Interpret Footage

                      when and if needed.

                       

                      Your problem originally stated goes to what happens to good Timeline content that goes bad after application of a video effect.

                      At this point, it become premature to be discussing export settings.

                       

                      If we assure that the project settings are set correctly, then we need to focus on the video and effects and define which effects and how many to each clip,

                      unless you have tried each and every one. A good way to get at this type of matter would be to focus on the video and a specific effect...showing screenshots for video before and after a specific effect has been applied. Are you editing these applied effects under Applied Effects Tab/Applied Effects Palette/Expanded Panel for the effect applied?

                       

                      Please review and consider.

                       

                      Thanks.

                       

                      ATR

                      • 8. Re: MTS/MPEG Clip- Quality reduced after rendering?
                        LMVideo Level 1

                        According to the Properties of a video clip a brought into the project...

                         

                        Average Data Rate:  1.3 MB/second

                         

                        Only effect I've tried is the simple "Fade In Video" then I render, then, the viewing quality appears not as sharp compared to the "raw", un-rendered video clip.

                        • 9. Re: MTS/MPEG Clip- Quality reduced after rendering?
                          LMVideo Level 1

                          PROJECT PRESET:

                          If your source is described specifically as 1440 x 1080 (60i)...remembering that 60i represents 60 fields per second and 29.97/30 interlaced frames per second,

                          then you use...

                          NTSC

                          HDV

                          HDV 1080i30

                          You do not want an alternative.

                           


                          You stated that I should use:

                           

                          NTSC HDV 1080i30

                           

                          There are actually 2 similar choices...  AVCHD Full HD 1080i 30    and   AVCHD HD 1080i 30.    Difference?   Which is "default"?

                           

                          Thx

                          • 10. Re: MTS/MPEG Clip- Quality reduced after rendering?
                            LMVideo Level 1

                            For what it's worth...

                             

                            I brought 2 of the same clips into the Timeline.
                            On one, I applied a simple FADE IN VIDEO, then rendered it. The other, I did nothing to it.

                            The rendered clip lost some of it's sharpness/stability? after being rendered.

                             

                            Then, I tried applying FLICKER REMOVAL to that rendered clip. This seemed to improve it; Hard to tell the quality/stability difference between the two clips.

                            • 11. Re: MTS/MPEG Clip- Quality reduced after rendering?
                              LMVideo Level 1

                              NOTE:   I tried to EDIT my reply above; Unable to (error??)

                               

                               

                              Anyhow, If the format for the video I'm using is "AVC HD", shouldn't I be using THAT category for Project Preset instead of "HDV"?

                              • 12. Re: MTS/MPEG Clip- Quality reduced after rendering?
                                A.T. Romano Level 7

                                LMVideo

                                 

                                In my post numbered 7 where I wrote

                                Bitrate

                                Minimum 18 Mbps

                                Target 25 Mbps

                                Maximum Mbps

                                I left out the value for Maximum Mbps

                                 

                                So that should have read

                                Bitrate

                                Minimum 18 Mbps

                                Target 25 Mbps

                                Maximum 30 Mbps

                                 

                                If your original video has a bitrate of 1.3 MB/sec, that represents megabytes per second. The units in the Premiere Elements export is in Mbps (megabits per second).

                                So, in the unit conversion, your target bitrate in the Premiere Elements export settings bitrate should be at least 10.4 Mbps. You could go with the program's default, but

                                the file size of the export might be a consideration.

                                 

                                Please remind me "What is the quality

                                a. Immediately after import into the project with the correct project preset and no Timeline rendering is necessary or available?

                                b. Immediately after import into the project, seeing orange line over Timeline content, Timeline rendering?

                                c. Immediately after import into the project, seeing orange line over Timeline content, Timeline rendering, application of Fade in Video effect, Timeline rendering?

                                 

                                Thanks for the follow ups.

                                 

                                To be continued

                                 

                                ATR

                                • 13. Re: MTS/MPEG Clip- Quality reduced after rendering?
                                  LMVideo Level 1

                                  PROJECT PRESET:   HDV 1080i

                                   

                                  1)  Video dropped into Timeline. No effects applied. No rendering.  Quality appears as sharp as when viewed in it's native device or in Windows Movie Maker.

                                  2)  Video in Timeline after any change is applied that results in orange line, some quality degradation; a little less sharp, minor stabilization difference from native video.

                                  3)  Video in Timeline after effect applied, render completed... some quality degradation; a little less sharp, minor stabilization difference from native video.

                                   

                                  I did try the FLICKER REMOVAL; maybe it's me (I'm very particular about details) but it does appear to make some improvement.

                                   


                                  For some reason, the degradation I thought I was seeing doesn't appear to be as obvious. Perhaps it was a project setting, the flicker thing, Max. Bit Depth checked for rendering or...?

                                   

                                  Thanks

                                  • 14. Re: MTS/MPEG Clip- Quality reduced after rendering?
                                    A.T. Romano Level 7

                                    LMVideo

                                     

                                    You are way ahead of me on questions. I will catch up. I will start with your latest report (post 13).

                                     

                                    Flicker is particularly associated with interlaced video and the interaction between the two fields in the frame. I will leave it at that short version of that explanation.

                                    Premiere Elements will give you two ways for you to deal with that type of flicker.

                                    a. Right click the Timeline clip, select Field Options in the pop up menu, and place a check mark in front of Flicker Removal

                                    or

                                    b. Select the Timeline clip, go to Applied Effects Tab/Applied Effects Palette/Motion Panel expanded and use the Anti-Flicker filter slider at the bottom of the Motion Panel expanded.

                                     

                                    Please look at the Anti-Flicker filter in Motion Panel expanded, and let us know if that does a better job for you. You may also want to explore if it makes a difference related to which is applied first, the Anti-Flicker or the Fade Video.

                                     

                                    I have stayed with HDV settings since I thought that you mentioned at the onset that you were working with a HDV project (MPEG2.mpg).

                                     

                                    Referring to your post numbered 9, you wrote

                                    There are actually 2 similar choices...  AVCHD Full HD 1080i 30    and   AVCHD HD 1080i 30.    Difference?   Which is "default"?

                                    If you have a source file AVCHD.mts 1440 x 1080i HD anamorphic 16:9, then the project preset should be

                                    NTSC

                                    AVCHD

                                    AVCHD HD 1080i30.

                                    because it represents 1440 x 1080 @ 29.97 interlaced frame per second.

                                     

                                    Both those choices will give a final display after encoding = 1920 x 1080 @ 29.97 interlaced frames per second.

                                    The 1920 x 1080 16:9 is that already. In the case of 1440 x 1080 @ 29.97 interlaced frames per second, a 16:9 flag needs to stretch

                                    the 1440 x 1080 (4:3) to 1920 x 1080 16:9 for display after encoding. Some players might have a problems recognizing the 16:9 to do

                                    the stretching, some players do not.

                                     

                                    Which one of these project presets allows you to bring your source to the Timeline so that there is no orange line over its content when

                                    the video is first dragged to the Timeline?

                                     

                                    Please review and consider.

                                     

                                    Thanks.

                                     

                                    ATR

                                     

                                    Also details to the details which we will put on hold until we sort out the above as written.

                                    • 15. Re: MTS/MPEG Clip- Quality reduced after rendering?
                                      LMVideo Level 1

                                      Actually, I have been able to drop video into the TL without the orange (to be rendered) line appearing regardless of Project Preset.

                                       

                                      (HDV or AVCHD).  Only when I apply a transition or flicker removal does the orange line appear.

                                      • 16. Re: MTS/MPEG Clip- Quality reduced after rendering?
                                        A.T. Romano Level 7

                                        LMVideo

                                         

                                        If you have no colored line or green (the no rendering needed indicators) and then edit that video, then you get the orange line over the content.

                                        That is the program telling you that you no longer have a best possible preview for the new edit. Thereafter you go through cycle as indicated - edit already rendered Timeline = orange line and render that to get green line indicating you now have an updated best possible preview and so on.

                                         

                                        Did you do better with the Motion Panel expanded's Anti-flicker filter than with the Field Options' Flicker Removal?

                                         

                                        ATR