1 2 Previous Next 51 Replies Latest reply on Feb 3, 2015 5:17 AM by Modesto Vega

    Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC

    Romsdalsfilm Level 1

      Hello

       

      I am getting quite the discoloration when exporting my Adobe RGB photos into SRGB with Lightroom.

       

      Some colors like blue gets heavily saturated, while reds/browns hidden inside in grass and foliage gets an ugly boost, making grass look very unatural.

       

      This color shift is visible in both Windows Explorer, XN Viewer and when i import the exported photos into Lightroom itself. Adobe RGB exports looks great. SRGB looks whacky.

       

      Is there any trick i can use to get more accurate color conversion in Lightroom? Right now its kind of Texas.

        • 1. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
          Modesto Vega Level 1

          Do you have your displays calibrated? How are you exporting? When you are exporting which profile are you embedding? Have you tried soft proofing before exporting to check for gamut warning?

          • 2. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
            Romsdalsfilm Level 1

            Thank you for the reply Modesto. My answers are numbered below.

             

            1. Yes, Datacolor i1display - but i can clearly see the color shift on the same monitor, inside the same 3 programs.

             

            2. Lightroom - Export - Export. Is there many ways? I just export directly from the Develop tab. Right click and export.

             

            3. No profile selected. I just export the photo in JPG 75% quality with SRGB.

             

            4. Im not sure exactly how this soft proofing works, but i do get a destination gamut warning in some areas of the photos, but certainly not over the whole image, and all of it gives me a whacky shift when exported to SRGB.

            • 3. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
              Romsdalsfilm Level 1

              4. So i just watched Adobes own video on Soft Proofing - http://tv.adobe.com/watch/whats-new-in-lightroom-4/soft-proofing-images/

               

              And the advice there was to either change the hue or the saturation of the affected colors. Thats a color shift - just a manual one instead of having Lightroom do it for you. I dont want to shift the color cyan over to blue like Adobe tells me to in the video. Doesnt SRGB also have cyan?

              • 4. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                Modesto Vega Level 1

                When was the monitor last calibrated?

                Romsdalsfilm wrote:

                 

                2. Lightroom - Export - Export. Is there many ways? I just export directly from the Develop tab. Right click and export.

                You could use the print module and print to JPEG, if I am sending images for printing this is the way I work. But if I am exporting for projected slideshow, I would probably use the Export dialog.

                 

                Romsdalsfilm wrote:

                 

                3. No profile selected. I just export the photo in JPG 75% quality with SRGB.

                 

                If you have selected sRGB as the colour space, then you have embedded and sRGB profile.

                 

                Romsdalsfilm wrote:

                 

                4. Im not sure exactly how this soft proofing works, but i do get a destination gamut warning in some areas of the photos, but certainly not over the whole image, and all of it gives me a whacky shift when exported to SRGB.

                I use soft proofing to get and idea of what is outside the gamut of a combination of printer and paper (left icon above the histogram when soft proofing) or the screen (right icon). Where you get gamut warnings Lr will find an approximation to translate the colour into a renderable colour.

                 

                I was wandering is most of the loses happen on gamut warning areas. I would expect that but I seem sRGB exports which are off and this is not the reason.

                • 5. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                  Romsdalsfilm Level 1

                  No, the color shift happens globally, and not really "near" the gamut warning places.

                   

                  If i use Adobe advice and desaturate to get inside safe gamut, i have to go to around 80% black and white before the gamut warning goes away.

                   

                  Left is Lightroom + Adobe RGB. Right is exported SRGB. Both images are opened in XN Viewer. No gamut warning visible in the sky area.

                  color shift.JPG

                   

                  Left image is Lightroom + Adobe RGB. Right image is SRGB with a visible red tint. No gamut warnings in the cloud, or night sky. Just a few red dots in the city street lights.

                  Color shift 2.JPG

                  • 6. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                    Modesto Vega Level 1

                    I can see the blue sky is different and a tint on the clouds.

                     

                    What type of files are you exporting RAW files, PSDs? Could you send a screenshot displaying the gamut warnings on the original image in Lr?

                    • 7. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                      Romsdalsfilm Level 1

                      Canon 5D2 raw files.

                       

                      Heres the screen with gamut warning:

                       

                      Gamut warning.JPG

                       

                      Heres the gamut in the grass. Left Adobe RGB - right is SRGB.

                       

                      Color shift 3.JPG

                      • 8. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                        Modesto Vega Level 1

                        Ok, so the gamut warnings don't cover the entire blue sky or the grass, what is happening to the blues is the most obvious bit. AFAIK, Lr should be able to reproduce the blue sky without gamut warnings more or less the same way in Adobe RGB and sRGB.

                         

                        What are you specifying under resolution? Try doing an export at 100% quality and 300 pixels per inch, it should not make a difference but give a try anyway.

                        • 9. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                          D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          It looks to me like you have a wide gamut monitor, and are viewing your sRGB files in software that isn't color managed. The color shift is entirely consistent with that.

                           

                          Adobe RGB files will look right since the native color space of a wide gamut monitor is very close to Adobe RGB.

                           

                          Wide gamut monitors can only be used in a fully color managed environment. There are no exceptions to this. That means you must have a valid monitor profile, the image must have an embedded document profile, and you must use an application that reads both profiles and performs the necessary conversion for display, like Lightroom.

                           

                          Windows Explorer does not qualify, and apparently neither does XN view.

                          • 10. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                            D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Sorry, wrong reply button. Obviously my reply was directed at the OP, not Modesto Vega.

                            • 11. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                              Romsdalsfilm Level 1

                              Hi twenty_one and thank you for contributing.

                               

                              When i export the same image to both an Adobe RGB copy and a SRGB copy, and then import both into Lightroom - they have the exact color shift as XN view and explorer shows. Lightroom is wide gamut, is it not? Even so, XN view and Explorer shows Adobe RGB exported file with the proper colors, very much matching the Lightroom copy i have in my background.

                               

                              Thats why i dont think it has anything to do with different programs. They all show matching results.

                               

                               

                              Modesto Vega:

                              Thank you for the new reply. I exported according to your suggestions now. Same results as before.

                              • 12. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                OK. If it's the same inside Lightroom that's not it.

                                 

                                For the record, wide gamut is a property of the monitor (a few rather expensive ones at that), not the software. But software needs to be color managed to use such a monitor.

                                • 13. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                  Romsdalsfilm Level 1

                                  I just noticed that i am getting gamut errors on softproofing also from Adobe RGB onto Adobe RGB. Happens with several photos taken years apart, as i just checked some other photos of mine.

                                  • 14. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                    D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Well, according to some experts softproofing in Lightroom is a bit buggy. And it's of little value anyway unless you do have a wide gamut monitor - with a standard monitor everything you see on screen is already clipped to sRGB. Most of the useful stuff in softproofing happens outside sRGB, so you will in any case not see any differences.

                                     

                                    Back to your issue. The difference you see is exactly the difference between sRGB and Adobe RGB, fed to the same target color space. Hence my suspicion of wide gamut monitor/no display color management, which would produce exactly this effect.

                                     

                                    If you have Photoshop you can test this for yourself, by either assigning Adobe RGB to an sRGB file, or vice versa. You'll see the same color shift/saturation change. To preserve colors, you wouldn't use assign, but convert, which recalculates the RGB values to maintain color in the new color space.

                                     

                                    So what happens here, if this change is consistent when the file is reopened in Lightroom, has to be something similar. Somehow, the exported file is tagged with sRGB, but the RGB values aren't changed in the process, as they should. To my knowledge there's nothing in the Lr export dialog that could cause this.

                                     

                                    Still, I get a warning bell. If you export to Adobe RGB and view it in Windows Explorer, it shouldn't look right. It should be muted and undersaturated, because Explorer is not color managed and will interpret the Adobe RGB file as sRGB (technically, it won't interpret it as anything at all, just send it straight to the monitor unchanged, but if your monitor is a standard one it will be close to sRGB so that's the net effect).

                                     

                                    So I'd re-examine all procedures closely here before concluding that there is something odd in Lightroom. It would also help if you told us the exact make and model monitor, so that can be ruled out.

                                    • 15. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                      Romsdalsfilm Level 1

                                      Thank you for the elaboration twenty_one.

                                       

                                      My monitor is this one: NEC 24" 4K LED Multisync EA244UHD


                                      PRODUCT HIGHLIGHTS

                                      • 3840 x 2160 UHD Resolution
                                      • 99.3% Adobe RGB, 94.8% NTSC, 146.4% sRGB

                                       

                                      Its not a pro grade monitor, but its really close. The 4K resolution really helps viewing sharp images too. They pop like theyve never done on 1920x.

                                       

                                      --

                                       

                                      How do you assign a color space to a photo in Lightroom? I have looked for this option to test "live".

                                       

                                      If Explorer cannot view Adobe RGB correctly, would that mean that the SRGB profile is perhaps bugged, while the Adobe RGB gets correctly converted into a healthy SRGB? Sounds odd, but just maybe.

                                      • 16. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                        Modesto Vega Level 1

                                        It is not a professional monitor but it should be good enough.

                                         

                                        Just a quick question, when you are soft proofing do you have the icon on the left top corner (the monitor) active (with a white box around it)? The soft proofing warnings you are getting are for paper (they are red) and not for the display. Just disable the paper warnings, enable the monitor warnings and post again a screenshot of your soft proofing gamut warnings.

                                         

                                        The monitor gamut warnings should be dark blue.

                                        • 17. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                          Romsdalsfilm Level 1

                                          Yes i tried that too, but i recieved no warnings so i disabled it eventually.

                                          • 18. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                            D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            Well, that monitor is wide gamut according to the specs (99.3% Adobe RGB)...

                                             

                                            So my first post applies. You cannot use applications that aren't fully color managed, because sRGB files will be oversaturated. There's nothing you can do about that.

                                             

                                            Wide gamut is a nice bonus, but it does have some inescapable implications that few people are aware of. These units should really be sold with a huge red sticker across the screen, with a warning to this effect.

                                            • 19. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                              Romsdalsfilm Level 1

                                              But why is Lightroom also showing the same color effect?

                                              • 20. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                This could happen if you have the wrong monitor profile on system level. The Windows default is sRGB, which is workable with a standard monitor, but very wrong with a wide gamut one.

                                                 

                                                The proper solution is to calibrate and profile the unit with a calibrator. If you don't have one, use Adobe RGB, not sRGB.

                                                 

                                                Go to Control Panel > Color Management > Devices:

                                                 

                                                display_profile_5b.png

                                                • 21. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                  Modesto Vega Level 1

                                                  Agree with the wide gamut comment but the bit I am having a problem understanding is that the OP does not get monitor gamut warnings.

                                                   

                                                  I always thought that if Lr is going to perform a colour approximation when translating between profiles, it throws a gamut warning. Always thought that this what soft proofing is all about.

                                                  • 22. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                    Romsdalsfilm Level 1

                                                    I use the profile created by my Datacolor i1Display color correction hardware unit.

                                                     

                                                    Its a little old now, so i need to redo it very soon, but is that really the issue?

                                                     

                                                    color management.JPG

                                                    • 23. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                      Modesto Vega Level 1

                                                      Would you be able to share one of those files via Dropbox and I'll give it a go?

                                                      • 24. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                        D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        There shouldn't be much gamut warning with an Adobe RGB file on a modern wide gamut monitor. Most of them are beyond Adobe RGB in two or even all three primaries - like this one, reported as 99.3 %. That probably means one primary is very slightly short, but the other two well beyond.

                                                        • 25. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                          Romsdalsfilm Level 1

                                                          Yes, thats what my color profiler also says after correcting the monitor. It shows the monitor pretty much on top of the Adobe RGB color triangle.

                                                           

                                                          Modesto: I have sent you a private message with the link to the photo.

                                                          • 26. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                            D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                            OK, that profile should work.

                                                             

                                                            A little confusion here, though. Datacolor makes Spyders. i1Display, however, is made by a different company, X-rite (formerly Gretagh Macbeth). So which one is it?

                                                             

                                                            If your sensor is an old generation one, either the original i1 Display or the DTP-94, these sensors don't perform well with modern LED or wide gamut panels. The resulting profile could be inaccurate. The first sensor specifically made for these panels is the current i1 Display Pro, or i1D3 as it is also known as. The first reliable Spyder was the Spyder3.

                                                            • 27. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                              Modesto Vega Level 1

                                                              Forget Adobe RGB, the Op is soft proofing into sRGB and getting no gamut warnings (sorry about the directness)

                                                               

                                                              Just to oversimplify a bit,

                                                              • soft proofing is in the develop module, so we assume ProPhoto RGB (Lr pseudo interpretation of it)
                                                              • Soft proof into sRGB, so we are translating ProPhoto RGB into sRGB
                                                              • No monitor gamut warnings must mean that all colours within the ProPhoto RGB for that photo are in the sRGB profile

                                                              Please do let me know where I have gone wrong.

                                                               

                                                              P.S.: I know is more complicated than this but lets confirm the principles first.

                                                              • 28. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                                Romsdalsfilm Level 1

                                                                Twenty_one:

                                                                 

                                                                Its the X-rite i1Display Pro. I also have the Datacolor Spyder 3, but purchased the X-rite after mixed experience with the Spyder. Hence the confusion. Sorry.

                                                                 

                                                                Modesto: Sounds right to me. Thats how ive understood things as well now. The original photo is taken in the Adobe RGB from the Canon 5D2.

                                                                • 29. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                                  D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                  Modesto Vega wrote:

                                                                   

                                                                  sorry about the directness

                                                                  Don't worry. I do it myself and expect no less from others

                                                                   

                                                                  I think I'll just sit back and consider this one for a while. Usually there's a pretty simple explanation for these things - and in 90% of the cases it boils down to a break in the normal color management chain. Either a non-color managed application, or a bad/wrong display profile. But this one doesn't seem to fit.

                                                                   

                                                                  Let's just keep in mind the wide gamut gotchas.

                                                                  • 30. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                                    Modesto Vega Level 1

                                                                    I have put your file through my Lr setup and this what I found.

                                                                     

                                                                    1) Paper gamut warnings are very different from yours, noticeably I don't get any warning on the top left corner of the blue sky and get warnings is less of your backpack than you do

                                                                    sRGB_Paper.jpg

                                                                    2) I virtually get no monitor warnings (just some gamut warnings on the backpack)

                                                                    sRGB_Monitor.jpg

                                                                    3) This is a screenshot of an AdobeRGB export and sRGB export (100% quality and 300 pixels per inch) [I have sent you the originals via Dropbox, please see private message]

                                                                    AdobeRGBvssRGB.jpg

                                                                     

                                                                    Perhaps the sRGB is a bit darker but the there isn't a huge difference between the sky.

                                                                     

                                                                    It could be your profile and/or your wide gamut display (as @twenty_one has said). My display is a Samsung S27B970, calibrated 2 days ago with an i1 Display Pro from x-Rite.

                                                                     

                                                                    Have a read through Tony Jay replies to this recent thread Soft proofing sRGB on wide gamut monitor - Lightroom Forums. It might be worth to soft proof using your monitor profile, which is what Tony Jay is doing for image 5 in his 1st reply to that thread.

                                                                     

                                                                    Edit: Tony Jay replies are a year old, so not that recent.

                                                                    • 31. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                                      Romsdalsfilm Level 1

                                                                      I cant see much difference in Lightroom between the files you exported. But i have to use Lightroom to get a proper reading. XN view still shows differences, so finally things are abit like they should be.

                                                                       

                                                                      Is Lightroom using my profiles to add or substract in the images?

                                                                      • 32. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                                        Modesto Vega Level 1

                                                                        Romsdalsfilm wrote:

                                                                         

                                                                        I cant see much difference in Lightroom between the files you exported. But i have to use Lightroom to get a proper reading. XN view still shows differences, so finally things are abit like they should be.

                                                                         

                                                                        Is Lightroom using my profiles to add or substract in the images?

                                                                        I am not sure about this but XN view might not be a colour managed application, Lr is. Personally, I will take XN view out the equation until you get Lr to export 2 files, with Adobe RGB and another with sRGB, which are very similar. In other words, you should be able to replicate the results of the 2 files I sent you with your system.

                                                                         

                                                                        You said earlier on the thread that if you view the 2 files you exported with Lr, a similar difference was there. Is this correct?

                                                                         

                                                                        AFAIK Lr should be translating between profiles. I always assumed that it would translate from pseudo PhotoRGB to Adobe sRGB or sRGB without taking your screen profile into consideration. The screen profile is only used for rendering.

                                                                        • 33. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                                          Romsdalsfilm Level 1

                                                                          Yes, Lightroom shows the same differences between my own exported files.

                                                                           

                                                                          Yours however does not exhibit the same differences in color.

                                                                           

                                                                          XN view is out of the equation now. It shows differences in your files while Ligthroom does not. Lightroom is ofcourse the correct viewer now that we have established some difference in the exported files between two different systems.

                                                                          • 34. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                                            Modesto Vega Level 1

                                                                            This suggests a profile problem, the wide gamut could be the problem as @twenty_one suggested (although I do not understand why because there is nothing to loose in translation).  Possibly an issue with the sRGB profile used by Lr.

                                                                             

                                                                            While soft proofing, click on the list of profiles and then other and see if you can find any other profiles with a name starting with sRGB, make a note of their location, ticked them and check which results you are getting with each one of them. By the way, when you do this tick the profile for your monitor.

                                                                            • 35. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                                              Romsdalsfilm Level 1

                                                                              Now heres a funny thing: Lightroom does not show differences between fresh exports anymore.

                                                                               

                                                                              I have not done any changes, so this is indeed odd.

                                                                               

                                                                               

                                                                              When soft proofing my monitor profile i get fewer gamut errors than with Adobe RGB profile.

                                                                               

                                                                              I can only select SRGB or Adobe RGB inside the Lightroom menu. I have to choose "other" to have a look at a more concurrent list.

                                                                              • 36. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                                                Modesto Vega Level 1

                                                                                Romsdalsfilm wrote:

                                                                                 

                                                                                Now heres a funny thing: Lightroom does not show differences between fresh exports anymore.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I have not done any changes, so this is indeed odd.

                                                                                So, it is fixed but we don't know how. Isn't that great?

                                                                                 

                                                                                Romsdalsfilm wrote:

                                                                                 

                                                                                When soft proofing my monitor profile i get fewer gamut errors than with Adobe RGB profile.

                                                                                AFAIK, that should tell you what colours your monitor is not capable of rendering. It is odd behaviour because your monitor cover 99.3% of the Adobe RGB profile (but has a size of 108.6% which I am not sure what it means).

                                                                                 

                                                                                Romsdalsfilm wrote:

                                                                                 

                                                                                I can only select SRGB or Adobe RGB inside the Lightroom menu. I have to choose "other" to have a look at a more concurrent list.

                                                                                That is default behaviour, did you carry out the fresh exports after or before clicking on "other"?

                                                                                • 37. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                                                  Romsdalsfilm Level 1

                                                                                  I exported before trying the profiles.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  The only thing i have done is selected "Adobe RGB" under System Default Profile under "Advanced" tab in Windows Color Correction menu. But i have not restarted my machine, and i see no visible difference happening on-screen. I changed it back to system default SRGB and yet again no change. Lightroom still shows correct colors.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                                                    Modesto Vega Level 1

                                                                                    Romsdalsfilm wrote:

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I exported before trying the profiles.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    The only thing i have done is selected "Adobe RGB" under System Default Profile under "Advanced" tab in Windows Color Correction menu. But i have not restarted my machine, and i see no visible difference happening on-screen. I changed it back to system default SRGB and yet again no change. Lightroom still shows correct colors.

                                                                                    You might not need a reboot for that to take effect. What was it before?

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Adobe RGB to SRGB export Lightroom CC
                                                                                      Romsdalsfilm Level 1

                                                                                      Yeah but i never observed a difference.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      It was SRGB (system default bla bla bla).

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I changed it to Adobe RGB and saw no difference in Lightroom. No difference in XN View either.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      So i changed it back to SRGB (system default bla bla bla) and still no difference, or anything.

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Maybe i should add that i use XN View because Windows Picture Viewer is unusable now that i have a monitor calibrated profile active. All my photos viewed through Picture Viewer becomes incredibly dark and saturated. XN View negates this issue and thus, i use that instead of the default program.

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