12 Replies Latest reply on Feb 8, 2015 7:02 AM by D Fosse

    Black and White conversion issues going from LR to PS

    ctoalson

      When I take a black and white image directly from Lightroom to Photoshop using "Edit in Photoshop", the black and white conversion doesn't stay true. My image, once opened in PS, is mostly black and white, but has green and magenta casts running throughout. Anyone know how to resolve this without just gray scaling the image again once in PS?

       

      Screen grab from LR on the left, and PS on the right.

      Screen Shot 2015-02-04 at 10.03.58 PM.pngScreen Shot 2015-02-04 at 10.05.15 PM.png

       

      Thanks.

        • 1. Re: Black and White conversion issues going from LR to PS
          Geoff the kiwi Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Sounds like a screen calibration issue....

          But is the image Black + White in Lightroom or Colour with desaturation and/or a preset.

          Does the image change with  a greyscale conversion in PS???

          • 2. Re: Black and White conversion issues going from LR to PS
            ctoalson Level 1

            Thanks for your interest Geoff.

             

            I'm not sure that it is a screen calibration issue. I just calibrated with my Spyder Pro last week.

             

            To clarify, the images are RAW .dng files that I have converted to black and white via LR and made other adjustments as well (sharpening, contrast, etc.).

             

            Once in PS, if I take the messed up files and greyscale them, I see a visible desaturation occur in the images. The green and magenta casts are no longer present. It works, but I don't think this is really an ideal solution.

             

            Investigating a bit more, I noticed that this issue only happens when LR assigns a Profoto RGB profile to the images as it brings them into PS. If I tell it to instead assign an Adobe RGB 1998 profile or an sRGB profile, Photoshop handles the files correctly. So I found a workaround, but still not sure why this is happening.

             

            Any insight from you Geoff or anyone else?

            • 3. Re: Black and White conversion issues going from LR to PS
              Geoff the kiwi Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Chris, I cannot replicate your issue....

              First try setting your monitor profile to sRGB as a test... if that gives a clean result your monitor profile is either corrupt or the wrong variety... (I'm not sure how you tell but there are different profile versionings)

              I sent a DNG to Black and White in Lightroom and opened it in PSCC2014... The resulting DNG file in PS is prophotoRGB and 16bit. Using the Info eyedropper it is neutral all over as expected and is visually the same as in Lightroom. I'm testing this on a MBP 15" with 10.10.2 and Lr5.7.1 with PSCC2014.

              Here is a screen shot with Lr and PS overlaid:

              Screen Shot 2015-02-07 at 8.11.41 pm.png

              • 4. Re: Black and White conversion issues going from LR to PS
                D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Yes, I recognize this one. It's a known bug in Photoshop's OpenGL rendering, it's been going on for years, reported several times in the PS forum. And yes, it only affects ProPhoto files.

                 

                The workaround is to disable the graphics processor in PS preferences, or set it to Basic mode. Considering the nature and longevity of this bug, you might consider that a permanent setting if you use ProPhoto a lot.

                 

                It shows up as cyan/red banding in the shadows. It happens in the conversion from ProPhoto to the monitor profile, using the GPU for color management, but to varying degree with different monitor profiles from different calibrators. Even sRGB is affected by this. Disabling the GPU shifts color management back to the CPU, and the issue disappears.

                • 5. Re: Black and White conversion issues going from LR to PS
                  Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

                  You could set LR to Edit in the External Editor, External Editing tab in the LR preferences, to the AdobeRGB (1998) and see if that cures your problem when working on B&W converted files.

                  • 6. Re: Black and White conversion issues going from LR to PS
                    D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Shootistbond007 wrote:

                     

                    ... AdobeRGB (1998) and see if that cures your problem

                    Yes, only ProPhoto is affected. Adobe RGB works fine.

                     

                    The "Basic" setting is also a viable workaround if you want to use ProPhoto, although of course for B&W there's no reason to.

                     

                    This is probably just a very small inaccuracy in the OpenGL implementation, otherwise negligible, but the highly compressed shadows in 1.8 ProPhoto brings it over the threshold.

                    • 7. Re: Black and White conversion issues going from LR to PS
                      Geoff the kiwi Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      How does the OP's green/magenta colouring equate to your stated red/cyan?

                      Let us see what is produced if the OP sets sRGB as the monitor profile.

                      • 8. Re: Black and White conversion issues going from LR to PS
                        Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

                        Geoff the kiwi wrote:

                         

                        How does the OP's green/magenta colouring equate to your stated red/cyan?

                        Let us see what is produced if the OP sets sRGB as the monitor profile.

                        How would setting the Monitor profile to sRGB change what PS is doing to a grey scale image brought to it from LR?

                        I for one would never change my Monitor Profile to sRGB. That would defeat the calibration I have done.

                        • 9. Re: Black and White conversion issues going from LR to PS
                          Geoff the kiwi Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Edward Chatlos wrote:

                           

                          Geoff the kiwi wrote:

                           

                          How does the OP's green/magenta colouring equate to your stated red/cyan?

                          Let us see what is produced if the OP sets sRGB as the monitor profile.

                          How would setting the Monitor profile to sRGB change what PS is doing to a grey scale image brought to it from LR?

                          I for one would never change my Monitor Profile to sRGB. That would defeat the calibration I have done.

                          It would see if the calibration is part of the problem, it is quite simple to switch from one profile to another and if no result change back. As I said I don't see this and Lightroom and PS use profiles differently.

                          Lightroom doesn't send a grayscale at all to PS. It sends a colour image with neutral tones.

                          • 10. Re: Black and White conversion issues going from LR to PS
                            john beardsworth Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            In PS, are you viewing the image at 100% or less than 100%?

                            • 11. Re: Black and White conversion issues going from LR to PS
                              D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Geoff the kiwi wrote:

                               

                              How does the OP's green/magenta colouring equate to your stated red/cyan?

                               

                              Well, it looks cyan to me. Here it is with saturation boost - assuming the OP made the screenshot correctly, assigning the display profile:

                               

                              cyan_2.png

                               

                              In any case, the Photoshop bug is well known and well documented, showing up as cyan shadow banding in ProPhoto files, when GPU is set to "Normal" or "Advanced" mode.

                               

                              I'm not saying the display profile isn't involved, it most certainly is. The whole issue is the conversion into the display profile. And it also shows to varying degree with different display profiles - sometimes just subtle cyan bands, easily missed until you look for it, other times more pronounced and with secondary red banding (like here).

                               

                              It also happens with sRGB as display profile. So the bug is real, no question about that.

                               

                              What's different here is that there's cyan also in the highlights. But that could be the screenshot - or it could be "just" a bad display profile. I'm not ruling that out, just pointing out that there is a more likely explanation in this case.

                              • 12. Re: Black and White conversion issues going from LR to PS
                                D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                I just tried to reproduce the PS bug, and it's still there - but this time much more pronounced with LUT profiles than matrix. Both are v2.

                                 

                                I'm using an Eizo CX240 for this test, calibrated with ColorNavigator 6. The last time I was involved in this I used an NEC P232W calibrated with Spectraview II.

                                 

                                Here are screenshots, each assigned the display profile used and then converted to sRGB:

                                 

                                test PP LUT_2.png

                                test PP matrix_2.png

                                (a little extra banding may be added by the 8-bit conversion to sRGB, and of course any "native" banding on the viewing display)