24 Replies Latest reply on Mar 26, 2015 7:04 AM by cameron thorp

    Indesign CS6 color problems

    albertoc42320059

      Hi there!

      I've a problem with colors and/or color profiles.

      When I import an image (rgb or cmyk) into InDesign, when I export the pdf, it change completely colors; it looses a great part of red-magenta areas.

      I tried quite all profiles suggested in the output intents (Fogra 39, Euroscale), and type of Pdf (X1, 2...).

      I tried also to synchronize all applications profile colors with Bridge, choosing Europe Prepress 3.

      I live in Italy, I own a Master Collection CS6 in English and I work with a Apple MBP 15" Mid 2014.

      I never had this problem before.

      Please help me, because i don't know what to do and because I can't export any pdf for my job!!!!

      Alberto

       

      Update:

      I tried to export from Photoshop the same image as Tiff and as Pdf. The first is ok, the second one has the same problems of InDesign.

      I tried also to print directly from Indesign and the problem persist.

        • 1. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          when I export the pdf, it change completely colors; it looses a great part of red-magenta areas.

           

          Do you have Overprint or Separation preview turned on when you view in InDesign? Have you tried exporting using the default PDF/x-4 setting?

          • 2. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
            albertoc42320059 Level 1

            Hi Rob!

            Very happy to hear you :-)

             

            So, I tried to export with all of PdfX presets and quite nothing changes...

            I haven't any separation or overprint activated.

            I thought also that probably would be the fact that I installed an english version (american?) and functions in a different way (for color profiles) than european-italian one?

            Do I to re-install again InDesign? Maybe something changes...

             

            Sorry if I don't write perfectly in english... :-)

            • 3. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
              rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              I haven't any separation or overprint activated.

               

              If you turn on Overprint Preview does the color change in InDesign?

              • 5. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                albertoc42320059 Level 1

                May change something the fact that I've added ISOnewspaper26v4 as possible and usable pdf preset?

                • 6. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Is your job printing on newsprint?

                   

                  What's the document's assigned CMYK profile (View>Proof Setup>Document CMYK)?

                  • 7. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                    albertoc42320059 Level 1

                    I own with my wife a print service. So, we mainly print digitally (on Xerox and Konica Minolta printers).

                    A client of mines asked me to design some advertising for newspapers; the typography asked me to export pdfs with Pdf-x1 with ISO newspaper profile.

                    • 8. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Is your document's assigned profile ISOnewspaper26v4, or are you setting it as the Destination profile when you export to PDF/X-1a?

                      • 9. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                        albertoc42320059 Level 1

                        No, I usually use this configuration where Output intent is Fogra 39.

                         

                        Schermata 2015-02-08 alle 16.54.32.png

                        • 10. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          A client of mines asked me to design some advertising for newspapers; the typography asked me to export pdfs with Pdf-x1 with ISO newspaper profile.

                           

                          If your document's CMYK profile is Coated Fogra and you export a PDF/X-1a with the destination set to a newsprint profile, all of the color will be forced into the newsprint profile's CMYK color. Newsprint profiles do have a smaller color gamut so you would expect to see a color shift if you convert from a coated to a newsprint profile.

                           

                          CMYK to CMYK conversions never produce the best results, so you don't want to convert your image to Coated Fogra and then again to ISO Newsprint.

                          • 11. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Preparing color for newsprint can be challenging, because newsprint profiles have the narrowest gamut and don't allow much ink coverage (ISOnewspaper26v4 limits total ink to 220%).

                             

                            If you make the conversion directly from RGB to the newsprint CMYK in Photoshop there are some options for controlling the conversion that might help. Here I'm converting AdobeRGB with some difficult reds to ISO Newspaper. The Intent and Black Point Compensation have a significant effect on the end color. Perceptual desaturates the reds more than Relative:

                             

                            Screen Shot 2015-02-08 at 11.27.39 AM.png

                             

                            Screen Shot 2015-02-08 at 11.27.57 AM.png

                             

                            Relative & Use Black point Compensation does the best job at maintaining the out of gamut reds:

                             

                            Screen Shot 2015-02-08 at 11.28.03 AM.png

                            • 12. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                              albertoc42320059 Level 1

                              First of all sorry if I bother you with my troubles again...

                              Your last answer is very interesting for other situations that happened to me

                              About my problem, I can tell you that I use newspaper's profile only when I work for that client's job.

                              I can tell you also that, this problem happens only since I change my Mac; before I had another MBP (13" Mid 2009) with a CS6, where I installed newspaper's profile too, but it never gave me any  problem.

                              For example, that client asked me Pdf-X1, with CMYK images and ISOnewspaper and color convert to destination.

                              Usually I use the High Quality Print presets, sometimes Press Quality and Pdf-x4.

                              • 13. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                For example, that client asked me Pdf-X1, with CMYK images and ISOnewspaper and color convert to destination.

                                 

                                Try this test

                                 

                                Set your Color Settings to:

                                 

                                Screen Shot 2015-02-08 at 1.28.42 PM.png

                                Make a New document and place an RGB image (not a Coated FOGRA CMYK image) and turn on Overprint. When you make the new document make sure the Intent is Print:

                                 

                                ProofSetup.png

                                 

                                Export to the default PDF/X-1a preset without any changes:

                                 

                                Screen Shot 2015-02-08 at 1.32.03 PM.png

                                View the PDF in AcrobatPro with Output Preview turned on with the Simulation Profile set to the output intent:

                                 

                                Screen Shot 2015-02-08 at 1.43.26 PM.png

                                 

                                 

                                Do you still have a color change?

                                • 14. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                                  albertoc42320059 Level 1

                                  In InDesign:

                                  when I choose in Proof Setup CMYK newspaper instead of existing Fogra, the image get less saturated.

                                   

                                  In Acrobat Pro:

                                  when I choose in Output Preview CMYK newspaper instead of existing Fogra, the image gain a red/magenta light and get more dark

                                   

                                  (sorry again for my limited english vocabulary)

                                  • 15. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                                    albertoc42320059 Level 1

                                    I wish to underline that the problem happens when I export pdfs for my shop's activity, not for newspaper.

                                    I remember also that I have the same problem from Photoshop's pdf.

                                     

                                    I guess that "No color Conversion" means that, when a color is out of CMYK gamut, it will be "moved" into CMYK gamut without a compensation of the entire image colors. Is it right?

                                     

                                    Which is the difference between "Convert to Destination" to "Convert to Destination (Preserve Numbers)?

                                    • 16. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      when I choose in Proof Setup CMYK newspaper instead of existing Fogra, the image get less saturated.

                                       

                                      Yes that's what you would expect. When you print on newsprint in the real world all color will be less saturated and the ISO Newspaper profile is showing you that effect. The FOGRA Coated profile is for sheetfed offset printing on a coated sheet not web newsprint.

                                       

                                      The best workflow would be to make any CMYK conversions directly from RGB to ISO Newspaper CMYK–you can do that either in Photoshop or when you export to PDF/X-1a. There's nothing you can do about the smaller gamut of newsprint. Ideally you want to get the Coated FOGRA profile out of the workflow as I'm doing in the example in post #13.

                                      • 17. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        I guess that "No color Conversion" means that, when a color is out of CMYK gamut, it will be "moved" into CMYK gamut without a compensation of the entire image colors. Is it right?

                                         

                                        No, it literally means there will be no color conversions. So if your document has an RGB image that image will remain as RGB in the exported PDF. However when you view a PDF in AcrobatPro the Output Preview shows you the color through a chosen Simulation Profile. By default when you export to PDF/X the simulation profile is your document's assigned CMYK profile.

                                         

                                        That means you can place an out-of-gamut RGB image, export it with No Conversion and it will remain as an RGB object but if the simulation profile is ISO Newsprint you get an in gamut CMYK soft proof showing what will happen when the RGB finally gets converted to that CMYK space at output. If you change the simulation profile to Adobe RGB you'll see the unchanged color.

                                         

                                         

                                        Which is the difference between "Convert to Destination" to "Convert to Destination (Preserve Numbers)?

                                         

                                        Preserve Numbers means that if your destination profile is different than the Document CMYK profile your InDesign colors and swatches will have their numbers preserved, while everything else like links with embedded profiles will get converted into the chosen destination. For example if your document had a 50% Black swatch it would stay as 50% Black.

                                        • 18. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                                          albertoc42320059 Level 1

                                          Aaaaahhhh! I'm getting mad!!!!

                                          Stupid question: when I create a new document, have i the possibility to tell InDesign if it will be used in Fogra or (for example) newspaper?

                                          I ask you this, because I just noticed this:

                                           

                                          Schermata 2015-02-08 alle 22.40.41.png

                                           

                                          Seem that I can only produce documents for newspapers? I noticed also that when I export pdf, the summary always (with high quality, press quality, pdfx1, pdfx2...) give me this warning:

                                           

                                          Schermata 2015-02-08 alle 22.45.12.png

                                           

                                          Is this useful?

                                          • 19. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                                            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            when I create a new document, have i the possibility to tell InDesign if it will be used in Fogra or (for example) newspaper?

                                             

                                            Yes, you do that via Color Settings.

                                             

                                            With my Color Settings set as the below screen capture, any new documents I make will have the ISO Newspaper CMYK profiled assigned. Keep in mind this will be applied to any new documents you make and not existing documents. For existing documents you have to use Edit>Assign Profiles... or Edit>Convert to Profile to change the document's profile.

                                             

                                            The Color Settings' Working Spaces are always assigned to new documents unless the Color Management Policy is set to Off.

                                            Screen Shot 2015-02-08 at 5.03.12 PM.png

                                            Also, you don't need to use Proof Colors if the document has the correct profile assigned—just turn on Overprint Preview.

                                            • 20. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                                              albertoc42320059 Level 1

                                              Hi Rob! I'm your italian nightmare!

                                               

                                              So I create a new document with this profile:

                                               

                                              Schermata 2015-02-09 alle 11.28.15.png

                                               

                                              and exported in this way:

                                               

                                              Schermata 2015-02-09 alle 11.28.38.png

                                               

                                              The image inserted has SRGB Calibrated20090131 (8bpc)

                                               

                                              These are:

                                              1) the image

                                              2) the scan of the image

                                              3) the scan of the pdf

                                               

                                              I know that scanning don't display colors as they are.

                                              I can tell you that pdf displays colors like the image visualizers.

                                               

                                              01 image.jpg04 scan pdf print.jpg03 scan image print.jpg

                                              • 21. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                In this case the CMYK profile is never used. You've placed an sRGB image and exported it with No Color Conversion (PDF/X-3). In Acrobat the image remains as sRGB, so the conversion to CMYK or the printer profile would happen during output.

                                                • 22. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                                                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  Here's a page with a placed sRGB image exported via PDF/X. Using Object Inspector I can see it is still an sRGB image, and if I set the Simulation Profile to sRGB the full color gamut is displayed:

                                                   

                                                  Screen Shot 2015-02-09 at 9.02.21 AM.png

                                                   

                                                  If I change the Simulation Profile to ISONewsprint the preview simulates the expected color shift if the sRGB image were to be output as separations and printed on newsprint. Note that the image hasn't changed, if I send this page to a newspaper it would be up to them to use the proper CMYK destination profile at output.

                                                   

                                                  That's the difference between PDF/X-4 and PDF/X1-a. With X-1a you are forced to make the conversion at export, with X-4 the conversion can be delayed until output.

                                                   

                                                  Screen Shot 2015-02-09 at 9.02.49 AM.png

                                                  • 23. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                                                    albertoc42320059 Level 1

                                                    Hi Rob!

                                                    Sorry for the late...

                                                    I've just to tell you thanx for all your suggestions.

                                                    I understood everything we talked about just trying and trying to print on my digital printers.

                                                    In these days I've corrected all color profiles and my prints are perfect (if it could be possible...).

                                                    Thank you and have a nice sunday!

                                                     

                                                    • 24. Re: Indesign CS6 color problems
                                                      cameron thorp

                                                      Try adjusting your images for the proper gamut of Newsprint using a curves adjustment layer. A black point suitable for glossy stock will be significantly different for newsprint. Since this will be an adjustment layer, you can turn it on or off in InDesign. Ask your printer for ink percentages for your black and white points then use those for your curve adjustments. I should mention to keep everything RGB. CMYK will lose a lot of data that you can never get back.