20 Replies Latest reply on Feb 12, 2015 5:59 AM by RikkFlohr

    Double sun images in HDR

    FWG99 Level 1

      I have recently started to take some landscapes and seascapes using the LR HDR link with Photoshop and I would say that I am having some pretty good results for a beginner in this aspect of photography BUT......

      My HDR results in the main are in perfect focus with no evidence of camera shake. I generally use my camera (Canon 5D mk3) in LIve View mode and mounted on a heavy tripod. I set the camera to take three photos automatically +/- 3 stops to the mid exposure value of the scene.

      My question / problem is that if I take a sun rise shot everything is in perfect focus but if the sun is in the frame, after applying the HDR process, the sun has a significant "ghost" up to a third of the size of the sun! Also any clouds immediately around the sun have a strange shape and a vivid orange color. Other features within the frame remain in perfect focus. In the individual frames there is no such ghost round the sun and the clouds look fine, all be it that two of the pictures are over / under exposed by intent. Why is this happening in HDR and can I stop it?

       

      To anyone who may be able to help with this I would stress that shots without the sun in the frame are sharp and have no evidence of any ghost or similar defects.

       

      My LR version is 5.7.1 and my operating system is Windows 7 pro

        • 1. Re: Double sun images in HDR
          RikkFlohr Adobe Community Professional

          It sounds like you are taking too long in-between exposures.  The sun moves approximately one diameter in four minutes (if my ancient astronomy is correct) If you take too long in between your bracketed shots, you will see a visible crescent-shaped ghost form.

           

          But, without a sample photograph, I am just guessing from your description. 

          • 2. Re: Double sun images in HDR
            ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            Can we see a screenshot of your result with the ghost?

            • 3. Re: Double sun images in HDR
              Keith_Reeder Level 4

              Uuuummm...

               

              Is this a Lightroom question?

              • 4. Re: Double sun images in HDR
                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                The HDR-merging would be done outside of LR, either PS or a third-party plug-in/app-interface, but the processing prior to sending to HDR could be in LR, so it depends on what the issue is if LR has anything to do with it or not.

                • 5. Re: Double sun images in HDR
                  FWG99 Level 1

                  IMG_0556-Edit.jpg

                  This image was processed using the built in link from LR to PS HDR so the transfer and merge should be seamless. AS I said in my question the problem ONLY affects images where the sun is present in the image. Other images convert perfectly.

                  • 6. Re: Double sun images in HDR
                    ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Can you point out where the “double-sun” is in this image? 

                     

                    The image that’s uploaded is relatively small so maybe something is lost in the details.  Can you upload something larger, a fullsize screenshot of your monitor, or at least do a screenshot of just the righthand portion zoomed in more if that’s where the double-sun is?

                     

                    And we probably need to see the same area from the individual images to understand what the HDR has to work with.  And as Rikk mentioned, how long between the first and last images?  Is the double-sun caused by the sun’s motion from the first to the last images?

                     

                    If you want a more detailed opinion maybe just zip up the three images and upload that zip to dropbox.com and post a share link to it, here.

                    • 7. Re: Double sun images in HDR
                      FWG99 Level 1

                      untitled (1 of 1).jpg

                      Image after HDR

                      IMG_0559-Edit.jpg

                      Image before HDR

                      The original files were take automatically by the camera and were within a couple of seconds so this is not the movement of the sun. All three exposures look identical to this one.

                      • 8. Re: Double sun images in HDR
                        RikkFlohr Adobe Community Professional

                        Also: Check your Lens Correction profile and see that you applied the same lens correction to both images.

                        • 9. Re: Double sun images in HDR
                          FWG99 Level 1

                          The lens correction was exactly the same for all the shots. Using Photoshop I also laid the three images on top of each other (two at a time) and erased half of the top image to see if the sun matched exactly on each photo - it did! The problem seems to something to do with the way the HDR function is working on a very bright image.

                          • 10. Re: Double sun images in HDR
                            RikkFlohr Adobe Community Professional

                            At this point, you will need to give us your original files to test on our end.  I merge HDR of sun images all the time and have never seen this.  Can you post a link to the originals you are using to create the merge?

                            • 11. Re: Double sun images in HDR
                              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Try doing Open Layers in Photoshop instead of Merge to HDR and then select all the layers and do a Edit / Align Layers and see if PS is misaligning things by turning the layer-visibility eyes on and off.

                               

                              And please upload your original raw images to dropbox, post a link here, so we can experiment with them.  If there is a problem maybe Adobe would want to experiment with them as well.

                              • 12. Re: Double sun images in HDR
                                FWG99 Level 1

                                Dropbox - LR PS photos for HDR

                                 

                                This link should take you to two sets of original RAW files and the HDR conversions that I did.

                                • 13. Re: Double sun images in HDR
                                  RikkFlohr Adobe Community Professional

                                  The photos do not match each other. I am guessing you uploaded 0553 when you meant to upload 0558

                                  • 14. Re: Double sun images in HDR
                                    ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    It’s been about an hours and so far there are only two raw photos in the folder specified by the dropbox link, and they seem to be the first EV+0 photo of a different bracketed sequences.  If they’re still uploading, then ok, but otherwise you might need to try again, or at least don’t put your computer to sleep until after the photos have finished uploading.

                                     

                                    Here is what I see at the Dropbox link an hour after your e-mail saying the photos where there:

                                    • 15. Re: Double sun images in HDR
                                      FWG99 Level 1

                                      I thought I had nested the three shots but it seems that you only got the basic image for each. I have run out of time at the moment but I will send the missing files via a new link later tonight. You have got the right basic images but two of each are missing! Thanks for your interest in this issue.

                                      • 16. Re: Double sun images in HDR
                                        FWG99 Level 1

                                        The link below should give you a full set. I have also chaged the tiff's to JPEG as the tiff file was very large.

                                         

                                        Dropbox - LR PS photos for HDR

                                        • 17. Re: Double sun images in HDR
                                          RikkFlohr Adobe Community Professional

                                          Looks fine here when I do it.

                                           

                                          I suspect you don't have your lens profile applied to all three images you are merging. 2-11-2015 3-49-47 PM.jpg

                                          • 18. Re: Double sun images in HDR
                                            ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            What version of PS CC 2014 are you using?  There was an issue with a couple earlier versions some months ago where auto layer alignment was messed up.  I remember it affecting focus stacking, but maybe it affected HDR creation as well.

                                             

                                            Also, the first time I tried to work with your second set of images, using File / Automate / Merge to HDR Pro in Photoshop and selecting the individual files on disk, the alignment didn't work, either.  Then I opened the three images in ACR and enabled lens corrections, clicked Done in ACR, then when I tried the Merge to HDR Pro a second time things were fine.  The original CR2s had no ACR settings whatsoever and I don't have a D7000 to have enabled lens profile corrections by default, so no lens corrections were performed, originally, the time the alignment didn't work.

                                             

                                            The current version is PS CC 2014.2.2 from Help / About Photoshop...

                                             

                                            The metadata in the saved JPGs only says PS CC 2014, not the precise version.

                                            • 19. Re: Double sun images in HDR
                                              FWG99 Level 1

                                              Thanks for your advice. I have reprocessed my image with lens correction applied. I reloaded the master photo from the camera (I had not deleted it)  but could not find any issue with image size variation. Given the number of copies and trials I have done it is possible that the images I up loaded were not "clean". However my final image was better in that the ghost has gone but I am still left with some very odd colour fringes in the immediate area of the sun (a bit like Saturn's rings on the sun itself). I also noticed on the image you loaded which you processed that there is in fact almost a complete sun just above the real one. Your "extra" sun is yellow.

                                               

                                              You also have similar odd chromatic effects in your clouds so am I looking for something beyond the current capability of PS /LR? My versions are all up to date as I subscribe to CC so any updates are immediately available.

                                              • 20. Re: Double sun images in HDR
                                                RikkFlohr Adobe Community Professional

                                                That 'extra' sun is present on the originals as well.  It is likely an internal reflection of your lens, a back image reflection from any screw on filter you have or other artifact.  In any case it is not an HDR processing induced ghost.

                                                 

                                                The odd chromatic artifacts in the clouds to which you are referring likely represent a limitation of your image capture (camera sensor most likely). Not uncommon in these type of captures.