26 Replies Latest reply on Feb 24, 2015 10:06 PM by stevee12

    authoring standard definition bluray video

    stevee12 Level 1

      Hello everyone. I downloaded adobe premiere elements 13 and have read portions of its manual that apply to my question. The manual suggests that standard definition bluray video can be created using the mpeg 2 codec. However, I tried but was unable to do this: I could only see options for high definition bluray video! Therefore, can someone explain briefly how this is done. I would also like to know whether or not the H 264 codec can be used to create standard definition bluray video and if so, what bitrate values are provided for this task.Finally, I would like to know what audio codecs could be used in creating standard definition bluray video?

        • 1. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
          whsprague Level 4

          "If a compatible burner is connected to your computer, you can create a DVD or Blu-ray Disc directly from Premiere Elements. You can play the disc that you create in either a TV or computer disc player. Premiere Elements creates video discs. (It does not create data or audio discs.) Desktop DVD burners use a recordable DVD-5 disc (DVD+/-R), which has a 4.7 GB capacity and can hold approximately two hours of high-quality standard-definition video.

          Typically, a Blu-ray Disc has a 25 GB capacity and can hold 135 minutes of high-definition video using MPEG-2 plus 2 hours of standard definition bonus material, or it can hold a total of 10 hours of standard-definition content. Blu-ray Discs come in BD-R (recordable) and BD-RE (rewritable) formats."

           

          What I think it means is that if you build a standard definition video made up of standard definition media with a standard definition project preset, then a Blu-ray disk will hold about 10 hours of video that can only be played on a Blu-ray player but without any high definition picture quality.

           

          Good luck with your project!

           

          Bill

          • 2. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
            A.T. Romano Level 7

            stevee12

             

            In Premiere Elements earlier than 13, Adobe offered for export to file MPEG presets which were described as file type MPEG2 Blu-ray. Premiere Elements 13 does not, describing the same named preset as just MPEG2.

             

            The Advanced Button/Video Tab export settings themselves are similar MPEG2 Blu-ray versus just MPEG2, while the File Type description is not. Only the File type MPEG2 Blu-ray is listed as having video codec = MainConcept MPEG Video. I find no mention of the video codec in version 13 for its File Type MPEG2. No sure what all that means behind the scenes.

             

            Many of the default presets for the export to file choices can be customized to your requirements. Please review the export settings under the Advanced Button/Video Tab, Audio Tab, and Multiplexer Tab. Also, look at the offerings under Publish+Share/Computer/AVCHD where you will see File Type H.264 Blu-ray.

             

            Also, the Premiere Elements 13 burn to Blu-ray disc will give only 1440 x 1080i or 1440 x 1080p and 1920 x 1080i or 1920 x 1080p resolution in the end product disc.

            And, in the Blu-ray disc produced, the audio is always Dolby Digital 2 channel Stereo. For this choice, the video bitrate is variable, with max. about 21 Mbps. The audio bitrate is 192 Kbps.

             

            Please review and consider and then we can discuss this further.

             

            Thank you.

             

            ATR

            • 3. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
              A.T. Romano Level 7

              steve12

               

              Add On...

               

              What are the properties of the TImeline content that you want to export to file saved to the computer hard drive -presumed by your "standard" mention, as 720 x 480 export with a File Type described by Adobe as MPEG2 or H.264 Blu-ray?

               

              Thanks.

               

              ATR

              • 4. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                stevee12 Level 1

                Many thanks for the replies so far to my enquiry. You suggested that adobe premiere elements will only burn bluray discs that have a resolution of either 1440x1080 or 1920x1080. To the best of my knowledge, these are high definition video resolutions. If this be the case, it then means that standard definition video resolutions(e.g 720x576) can not be created on bluray discs by adobe premiere elements. I am now confused because the adobe premiere elements manual states that mpeg 2 standard definition video of about 10 hours in duration can be written to a 25gb single layer bluray disc! You also mention H264  bluray video: what I would like to know is if this is for only high definition(e.g 1920x1080) or for both high and standard definition bluray video?

                • 5. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                  A.T. Romano Level 7

                  stevee12

                   

                  Thanks for the reply.

                   

                  Bottom line:

                   

                  You can get an export to file from Premiere Elements that is said to be a H.264 Blu-ray file type (in earlier version MPEG2 Blu-ray as well).

                  Before export, the export settings can be customized for various settings including Frame Size 720 x 576.

                  The Premiere Elements burn to Blu-ray process is characterized by resolution to give 1920 x 1080 16:9 display. No user customization of the burn to presets.

                   

                  Further comments...

                   

                  With regard to what you wrote (post 4)

                  it then means that standard definition video resolutions(e.g 720x576) can not be created on bluray discs by adobe premiere elements.

                  True.

                   

                  With regard to

                  I am now confused because the adobe premiere elements manual states that mpeg 2 standard definition video of about 10 hours in duration can be written to a 25gb single layer bluray disc!

                  What it does not say is as what. Can be taken as

                  a. You have a Timeline content of MPEG2 "standard definition widescreen - 720 x 576 16:9" and you burn it to a Blu-ray disc giving you the Blu-ray disc format on Blu-ray disc (25 GB), giving the 1920 x 1080 16:9 display

                  or

                  b. You have a Timeline content of MPEG2  10 hours "standard definition widescreen - 720 x 576 16:9", and you export it as a file 720 x 576 16:9 which is saved to the computer hard drive. Then you burn that file to a Blu-ray disc as data disc with 3rd party software to get the file on the Blu-ray disc in the same format before and after the burn to.

                   

                  I will see if I can find that quote in the program's PDF Help where I assume you found it.

                   

                  Please let me know if you have questions or need clarification on this.

                   

                  ATR

                  • 6. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                    whsprague Level 4

                    A.T. Romano wrote:

                     

                    I will see if I can find that quote in the program's PDF Help where I assume you found it.

                     

                    I put that in post #2 in quotes.  It is on page 218 of my downloaded .pdf help file.

                    • 7. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                      stevee12 Level 1

                      many thanks for the newest contributions to this discussion. I again read portions of the premiere elements 13 manual which is available on the internet as a pdf thru google web search. Therefore, I can refer you to paragraphs 1 and 2 of chapter 11 under the heading:disc burning guidelines and compatibility. these paragraphs indicate that  standard definition bluray video can  be burnt unto a bluray disc. I would have tried to find out for myself if this is correct but as my 30 day trial period for premiere elements has now expired, it is impossible to do so without first buying it. And I will not buy except I know for sure that it creates standard definition Bluray discs. Therefore, I kindly request anyone who already owns premiere elements and has been following this discussion to try and create a standard definition bluray disc and let me know what happens.

                      • 8. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                        A.T. Romano Level 7

                        stevee12

                         

                        If you still had Premiere Elements 13 and you or anyone else went to the Publish+Share/Disc/Blu-ray disc, you (they) find

                        BluRay-1.jpg

                        The above screenshot shows you choices, and there is no 720 x 576 or anything other than what you see there.

                         

                        So whatever the format is on the Timeline, when burn to Blu-ray disc in this Premiere Elements burn to, you will end up

                        with the choice you make from the list that is shown in the screenshot. See the following for the Blu-ray structure that is said (and acknowledged) to

                        be on the disc (Section Directory and file structure).

                        Blu-ray Disc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                         

                        And, if you use Publish+Share/Computer/ and any choice that says it is a Blu-ray file type and create a file saved to the

                        computer hard drive, you cannot put that file on a Blu-ray disc in the Publish+Share/Disc/Blu-ray disc so that it will end up as anything

                        more than one of the 1920 x 1080 display choices that you see in the screenshot.

                         

                        If you wanted to put that 720 x 576 file on to a Blu-ray disc, you can do that as a data disc in another program or a program that you find

                        that does what you are apparently seeking. And that seems to be putting the Blu-ray structure in a resolution of 720 x 576 on a Blu-ray disc.

                        Am I correct in that is what you are seeking?

                         

                        Please review and consider.

                         

                        ATR

                        • 9. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                          whsprague Level 4

                          stevee12 wrote:

                          ....Therefore, I kindly request anyone who already owns premiere elements and has been following this discussion to try and create a standard definition bluray disc and let me know what happens.

                          I don't have any cameras that will shoot SD.  If you can send me some SD clips, I'll give it a try.  Try DropBox maybe?  Whatever you send me, I will duplicate enough times on the time line to make a long video.

                           

                          My theory is that the SD clips have such a low amount of video data in them that the H.264 compression system will find a way to fit 10 hours on a Blu-Ray.   The playback will of course be on a Blu-Ray player, but the screen will appear to be SD picture quality.

                           

                          It will cost me a BD disk to try it, but my curiosity is high!

                           

                          Bill

                          • 10. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                            A.T. Romano Level 7

                            stevee12

                             

                            Add On...

                             

                            If I establish a Premiere Elements 13 project with a PAL DV Widescreen project preset and add 10 hours 1 min 8 seconds 10 frames of PAL MPEG2.mpg (16:9) to that Timeline and go Publish+Share/Disc/Blu-Ray, the burn dialog will show two possibilities

                             

                            BD-RE 25 GB disc used....

                             

                            1. If I do not have a check mark next to "Fit Content to Available Space", I will not be able to do the burn to because of Status = "Insufficient disc space for burning". In this case, I see in the burn dialog Space Required = 102.91 GB and Bitrate = 20.19 Mbps (megabits per second) which is about the max bitrate (for variable bitrate used by the feature).

                             

                            2. If I do have a check mark next to "Fit Content to Available Space", I will now get a Status = Ready so that I can go ahead with the burn to Blu-ray disc, but under the condition of Space Required 22.55 GB and Bitrate = 4.41 Mbps. But, what I will have on that disc is 1920 x 1080, not 720 x 576, Blu-ray disc format on a Blu-ray disc. And, since the program had to lower the bitrate from 20.19 to 4.41 Mbps to lower the file size to make the fit, the 1920 x 1080 quality would be expected to be poor.

                             

                            Consequently, if I use Premiere Elements 13 under these circumstances, the outcome is poor quality 1920 x 1080 Blu-ray disc format...no 720 x 576 at any quality, and you have not achieved your goal as I understood it from the onset, that goal being  to obtain a Blu-ray disc with 720 x 576 16:9 content from the Premiere Elements burn to disc process.

                             

                            How are you expecting to get a Blu-ray disc format on Blu-ray disc as 720 x 576 16:9 when the preset does not exist for it in Premiere Elements?

                             

                            I continue to look forward to your clarification.

                             

                            ATR

                            • 11. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                              stevee12 Level 1

                              Many thanks for accepting to try and create a standard def. bluray disc. The other contributor to this discussion has very recently posted a screenshot of the premiere elements bluray presets and there is no option there for standard def(720x576,720x480,640x480). Therefore, I am now convinced that premiere elements 13 does not allow the creation of standard def. bluray discs. However, if you still want to satisfy your curiosity, I can send some standard def. clips to you.Please let me know how to do this.

                              • 12. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                                stevee12 Level 1

                                If you still want the standard def. clips, let me know if I could use google drive to send them to you.

                                • 13. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                                  stevee12 Level 1

                                  Many thanks for the very detailed reply to my contributions. I was particularly happy to see the bluray preset screenshot for premiere elements 13. That screenshot has convinced me that it is impossible to create a bluray file structure using 720x576 which I can clarify is what I was seeking to do: my desire was never to create a 720x576 data file. my very first contribution to this discussion included questions about  audio and video codecs/bitrates used to create standard def. bluray discs. since premiere elements 13 does not allow the creation of standard def. bluray discs, the matter of codecs/bitrates is now not important.

                                  It is very clear from all the contributions so far to this discussion that on the issue of standard def. bluray creation, the premiere elements 13 manual does not agree with the premiere elements 13 software.Therefore, someone needs to inform adobe about this. I would have done so but since I do not own the premiere elements 13 software( the 30 day trial period has now expired), I would not be entitled to customer service. I would be very grateful if you or any other person following this discussion would make contact with adobe.

                                  • 14. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                                    whsprague Level 4

                                    stevee12 wrote:

                                     

                                    If you still want the standard def. clips, let me know if I could use google drive to send them to you.

                                    I want to try it because the book says, "or it can hold a total of 10 hours of standard-definition content",

                                     

                                    Bill

                                    • 15. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                                      stevee12 Level 1

                                      I do not use dropbox so please inform me another way to send the standard def. clips to you

                                      • 16. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                                        whsprague Level 4

                                        Google, Amazon, DropBox, Microsoft and other "cloud storage" services have a way to create a "public" folder.  When you have it uploaded, you give me the link here.  If this is not convenient for you, I understand and will pass on the project.  But, I'm still curious as to why the book might say you can and the output settings seem to suggest a challenge!

                                        • 17. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                                          stevee12 Level 1

                                          Hello.  I am now about to place a google drive link to a standard def. video file that is about 6 min duration. I hope you can download it.https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzgNmfGhvJZ3UzloWXNUVnFPYW8/view?usp=sharing

                                          • 18. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                                            whsprague Level 4

                                            I retrieved the file, created a project, put it on the timeline, let it set a project preset automatically and duplicated it enough times to make it 10 hours long.  Attached is a screen shot showing the calculation that it will fit.  It only fits if the "Fit to Available Space" is checked.   It says it needs 23GB and the disk is 25GB.  I've started the burn.  I suspect rendering 10 hours of video will take awhile, maybe a long while.   It is 7 am on the west coast of the USA.  It will be interesting to see if my computer lives through it. 

                                             

                                            SD BD Test.jpg

                                            • 19. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                                              A.T. Romano Level 7

                                              steve12

                                               

                                              Replying to your post 13...

                                               

                                              Thank you for your reply and reviewing the considerations that I brought to your attention.

                                              The results that I posted in post 10 for my PAL MPEG2.mpg (16:9) are the same for the sample 4:3 AVCHD.mp4 (640 x 480 @ 15 progressive frames per second) that you decided to send. (Please refer back to my post 10.)

                                               

                                              Since the Blu-ray end product display is for 1920 x 1080 16:9, any use of the 4:3 source (as is) will result in black borders in the end product disc display if the burn is successful.

                                               

                                              And, we are already at a mutual agreement that 720/480 or 640/480 resolution is not to be gotten from a Premiere Elements 13 burn to Blu-ray disc no matter  how much is or is not on the Timeline.

                                               

                                              Thank you for considering the comments.

                                               

                                              Best wishes

                                               

                                              ATR

                                              • 20. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                                                whsprague Level 4

                                                I abandon the computer for several hours, so I don't know precisely how long it took to encode the Blu-Ray.   My estimate is 5 hours of encoding for the 10 hours of footage.  I have an i7 laptop with 16GB of memory and use a SSD for my video projects.

                                                 

                                                I had two false starts.  I let the software pick a project setting and when I put the clip on the timeline the yellow "render me" line showed up.  I ignored it and went straight to the output.  After about 10 minutes, it locked up and quit.  Twice.  On the third try I rendered the preview before the output encoding and all was fine.

                                                 

                                                The playback of the Blu-Ray looks like a mostly square old TV displayed in the middle of my large flat screen HD TV.  It has very standard definition look and mediocre, but useful, picture quality. 

                                                 

                                                Stevee12, I can mail the disk to you if you want to see for yourself.

                                                 

                                                Bill

                                                • 21. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                                                  whsprague Level 4

                                                  A.T. Romano wrote:

                                                   

                                                  ....the Blu-ray end product display is for 1920 x 1080 16:9, any use of the 4:3 source (as is) will result in black borders in the end product disc display if the burn is successful.

                                                   

                                                  And, we are already at a mutual agreement that 720/480 or 640/480 resolution is not to be gotten from a Premiere Elements 13 burn to Blu-ray disc no matter  how much is or is not on the Timeline.

                                                   

                                                  In the spirit of a user based forum where we learn from each other, regardless of the resolution ratios, the H.264 codec seems to figure out how to display a SD format on a HD screen through a Blu-Ray player.  Rocket science can be a fun thing. 

                                                  • 22. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                                                    stevee12 Level 1

                                                    Hello. I am so grateful you took the time to download my standard def. file and then used it to burn a bluray disc. Thanks for offering to mail it to me. But this is not necessary. What I would like is to see a screenshot of  the properties of the Bluray disc. You can get the properties by using the media player classic software. During file playback, click:file,properties,mediainfo. I make this request because I am amazed that premiere elements was able to turn a standard def. file into an HD file. I never knew this could happen! I have known for a long time that Bluray players do upscale standard def. dvd's to HD so that they are displayed properly on an HDTV set that has a resolution of 1920x1080. But this type of upscaling does not in anyway change the standard def. dvd file resolution of 720x480 or 720x576. What premiere elements has done, if indeed it has( the screenshot should confirm this), is turn my 640x480 file into a 1440x1080 file. Another thing that amazes me is premiere elements ability to create an HD Bluray disc using what I suppose would be a very low video bitrate value:to fit 10 hours into a 25gb bluray disc would need a bitrate of between 4 and 5mbp/s. I always thought that HD videos required much higher bitrates than standard def.ones.

                                                    • 23. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                                                      whsprague Level 4

                                                      I don't have Media Player Classic.  I do have MediaInfo.  Here is a screen shot:

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Capture.JPG

                                                      • 24. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                                                        stevee12 Level 1

                                                        Thanks for the screenshot. it confirms what I expected about the bitrate but the resolution turned out to be 1920x1080 not 1440x1080. I expected 1440x1080 because the earlier screenshot you posted just before the project began indicated this or maybe I did not see clearly as the picture was a bit blurred.That same screenshot indicated a 4:3 aspect ratio but the bluray file now has 16:9. could you explain.

                                                           finally I would like to know if you are willing to contact adobe and inform them that premiere elements does not support the creation of standard definition bluray video and to request the inclusion of this feature in future versions of the premiere elements software

                                                        • 25. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                                                          whsprague Level 4

                                                          "could you explain."

                                                          I have no idea how, or even why, it works.  What I see on the TV is a what looks like a standard old SD TV.  It is enlarged to fit a big screen.  Enlargement emphasizes the relatively low quality of the standard definition picture.  I think it is made worse by squeezing 10 hours on the disk forcing a low bit rate.

                                                           

                                                          ".... if you are willing to contact adobe "

                                                          I have no contacts at Adobe.  I am a curious user that enjoys what can be learned here. 

                                                           

                                                          Bill

                                                          • 26. Re: authoring standard definition bluray video
                                                            stevee12 Level 1

                                                            Many thanks for all your contributions to this discussion. I have learned alot about premiere elements from them. And eventhough I am not ready to buy premiere elements now, I may do so in the future.