28 Replies Latest reply on Mar 17, 2015 3:55 PM by redbourn

    Initial page setup

    redbourn Level 1

      Hi,

       

      just watched some tutorials and wonder if this is a correct setup for an 8"x8" book.

       

      I know the margins are a question of taste, or believe that to be the case ;-)

       

      I set them top and bottom 1" and sides 1/2"

       

      Once this is correct I can start to work on my book.

       

      Many thanks for any feedback,

       

      Michael

       

      page layout.jpg

        • 1. Re: Initial page setup
          MW Design Level 4

          For an 8" x 8" book, your page dimensions need to be 8" x 8".

          Your inside margin is too small at 1/2" for all but a small page count, and even then it should be wider because your book is going to be perfect bound.

          Your outside margin is narrow as well. For a cookbook, even with relatively sparse type and two columns, the page will appear cramped.

          The bottom margin may be a bit tall. Dunno. Depends on what you plan on doing with it.

          The columns and gutter. The gutter is probably OK if you want columns. Keeps them apart I suppose. Your text frames should hit the column and margin guides.

          The point size in your sample text seems very large.

           

          I would recommend taking a trip to your nearest book store and perusing current cookbooks. Look at the margins, the layout (two columns? One column?), look at the relative page density (the amount of type and their relative point sizes), and the types of images and their placement.

           

          Mike

          • 2. Re: Initial page setup
            redbourn Level 1

            Thanks for the nice full reply.

            I got the impression looking at the publisher's notes that the page needs to be bigger than 8x8 because of the bleed and it seemed strange to me.

            lightningsource

            How do you understand it.

            Michael

            bleed.jpg

            • 3. Re: Initial page setup
              MW Design Level 4

              I've used LS before. Most all the POD places are the same/similar. The page size is to equal the measurement of the trim size. The bleed is setup in the dialog under the bleed section you show in your first screen shot.

               

              Mike

              • 4. Re: Initial page setup
                Derek Cross Level 6

                I sugggest you make your extent 48 pages. By the way, you need to decude whether you are going to have a "self cover" or separately printed 4pp cover printed on heavier stock.

                • 5. Re: Initial page setup
                  redbourn Level 1

                  Thanks for the reply.

                   

                  So I set the page to 8x8 and add the bleed size as in my first image?

                   

                  Do the bleed sizes look correct to you?

                   

                  The bleed chart caused me to think that I had to make the page bigger, but I think I understand the concept now.

                   

                  Only started on the publishing side of my cookbook three days ago, which is obvious ;-)

                   

                  Michael

                  • 6. Re: Initial page setup
                    redbourn Level 1

                    Thanks for the reply.

                     

                    Lightningsource have several pages on setting up the cover and I haven't even started to think about that.

                     

                    Only started with InDesign 2 days ago and am watching tutorials.

                     

                    The book won't be ready to go for several months yet. I have all the recipes but am getting two other people to test them and give feedback.

                     

                    Just bought a Nikon and will have to recook and photograph every meal again since I used my smartphone first time around.

                     

                    The book is aimed at novices who want to cook interesting and tasty food.

                     

                     

                    The portion sizes and timings will be as accurate as possible, have both pounds and metric, and will feature tips, tricks and substitutes.

                     

                    Each recipe will give a tip and a trick and list alternative spices and herbs.

                     

                    Not doing it for money and or fame but for fun and to hopefully help people cook tasty and healthy food without too much fuss.

                     

                    Why try to limit to 48 pages?

                     

                    Michael

                    • 7. Re: Initial page setup
                      Derek Cross Level 6

                      Bleed is normally 1/8" / 3mm

                      Why not typeset a few pages, include pics, and print them out on your desk-top printer and mock up a 4 page section. It will give you a good idea how the book will look (margins, type size etc).

                      To print out your pages, Export your InDesign file to PDF high quality print, print separate pages, and tick to include trim marks (to help you cut the pages to size).

                      Derek

                      • 8. Re: Initial page setup
                        redbourn Level 1

                        That's a very good idea.

                         

                        Will spend a lot more hours viewing and reviewing tutorials first ;-)

                         

                        Does it seem correct that I don't need a bleed on the inside?

                         

                        Thanks

                         

                        P.S. I see you're in Kent. My parents had a pub in Broadstairs.

                        • 9. Re: Initial page setup
                          Derek Cross Level 6

                          I'm not limiting your book to 48pp, it's just that 50pp is not feasible on a saddle stitched booklet. Keep to units of four pages.

                          Note, your pics should be 300ppi, which means that a full page 8"x8" photograph should have a dimension of around 2400 x 2400px.

                          • 10. Re: Initial page setup
                            BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                            300ppi is, for most purposes overkill. For a job like this, I've seen 200 work well.

                            • 11. Re: Initial page setup
                              redbourn Level 1

                              Was thinking of Perfect Bound but haven't got into the cost thing yet.

                               

                              Good that you mentioned about the photos because I intend to have the recipe on one page and the photo facing on the other.

                              • 12. Re: Initial page setup
                                redbourn Level 1

                                I understand that 300 ppi is higher quality than 200 ppi but does 300 push up the printing cost a lot?

                                • 13. Re: Initial page setup
                                  Derek Cross Level 6

                                  it doesn't make any difference to the cost it's just if you were printing to the highest quality litho 300ppi would be best, 200 is fine for what yr doing.

                                  not sure you can perfect bind a 48pp booklet. Check with yr printer.

                                  going to lunch now !

                                  • 14. Re: Initial page setup
                                    BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                    If they’re already at 300 it’s fine. I just wanted you to be aware that 300, is more or less, an old wives tale.

                                    • 15. Re: Initial page setup
                                      redbourn Level 1

                                      Not going to get between you and Derek on this one ;-)

                                      • 16. Re: Initial page setup
                                        redbourn Level 1

                                        This is 8x8 and has 65 pages.

                                         

                                        Interesting that she printed it in China.

                                         

                                        http://www.amazon.com/Tagine-Spicy-Morocco-Ghillie-Basan/dp/1845974794

                                         

                                        I'm kind of modelling my book style and layout on hers.

                                        • 17. Re: Initial page setup
                                          Derek Cross Level 6

                                          It would be 64pp not 65pp

                                          And, to be clear, 64 pages is 64 sides, i.e. 32 leaves. It's imporant to get the correct nomenclature!

                                          • 18. Re: Initial page setup
                                            redbourn Level 1

                                            Thanks!

                                             

                                            I'm learning as fast as I can!

                                             

                                            “My dear, here we must run as fast as we can, just to stay in place.

                                             

                                            And if you wish to go anywhere you must run twice as fast as that.”

                                             

                                            -- Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

                                            • 19. Re: Initial page setup
                                              MW Design Level 4

                                              BTW, that book on Amazon you link to? The "Look Inside" feature for it is a preview of the eBook version, not the print version. They will be different. It also is a 64-bage book.

                                               

                                              As Derek mentions, your page count when finished needs to be wholly divisible by 4, or you will need to add blank pages at the end (or within it) to make it so. Think of a landscape piece of paper folded in half. Count the sides. One cannot slip in a loose piece of paper and have it bound with the others.

                                               

                                              Mike

                                              • 20. Re: Initial page setup
                                                Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                                                Make your frames complete align with the border guides, it is importing that they are not flpating around. If you need later to make changes, layout adjustment works only if these frames are aligned.

                                                • 21. Re: Initial page setup
                                                  redbourn Level 1

                                                  Glad you mentioned adding blank pages.

                                                   

                                                  Haven't yet come across that it any tutorial.

                                                   

                                                  It's a Brave New World for me  ;-)

                                                  • 22. Re: Initial page setup
                                                    redbourn Level 1

                                                    A new ball game!

                                                     

                                                    My recipes are very precise and I can't fit them into one side of an 8x8 book when using a font size of 11 - even when reducing the margins to 1/2".

                                                     

                                                    So am now planning on an 8.5x11 book which will work.

                                                     

                                                    With some recipes the text will need to continue on part of the second side, so the image will be truncated.

                                                     

                                                    Which margin size would you recommend?

                                                     

                                                    The text in the left and right column are showing the same font and size but they look different.

                                                     

                                                    And Ingredients and The Method don't line up,

                                                     

                                                    Will change the photo later.

                                                     

                                                    Just work in progress and maybe not bad for day four working with the program for a few hours a day.

                                                     

                                                    Left side would probably be better if moved down.

                                                     

                                                    I thought with all the recipes close to ready and my new camera that this would be a cinch.

                                                     

                                                    But I recall a friend in the oil business who used to say, "There's many a slip twixt the tank and the bank".

                                                     

                                                    Michael

                                                     

                                                    new book reduced photo.jpg

                                                    • 23. Re: Initial page setup
                                                      Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                                                      As I said, align your text frame exactly with the page borders.

                                                      I would use only a single column on the master page (use master page for pages) and use instead a 2 column text frame.

                                                      Use paragraph styles. Never use 2 returns or more to force space between paragraphs. This is an absolute NO-GO.

                                                      • 24. Re: Initial page setup
                                                        redbourn Level 1

                                                        I went online to find out how to create text frame and can now make them.

                                                         

                                                        And will now check out how to do paragraphs.

                                                         

                                                        And then learn about styling.

                                                         

                                                        I still have to learn even the simplest things one at a time.

                                                         

                                                        Just so I know why I'm doing it, why use text frames and not columns?

                                                         

                                                        If I paste in text from MS Word it may have two carriage returns. So I need to get rid of them?

                                                         

                                                        Thanks,

                                                         

                                                        Michael

                                                        • 25. Re: Initial page setup
                                                          Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                                                          A single frame with 2 colums (you should set up it in the text frame’s object style) gives you more flexibility than 2 frames. It allows to span text across all columns or change the number of columns only by changing the settings in the frame’s object style.

                                                          2 or more carriage returns should not be used in InDesign nor in MS Word as it causes a lot of more work and a lot of problems, like failing keep options or uneven column edges and many other things. Set up paragraph styles with space above and below, set up paragraph styles for Headlines which have also keep settings to keep together with next paragraph, set up paragrph styles for titles which have spanning colums. But never use multiple returns to make space between 2 paragraphs.

                                                          • 26. Re: Initial page setup
                                                            redbourn Level 1

                                                            Thanks for all the help.

                                                             

                                                            InDesign is a bit overwhelming at the very beginning but I know Photoshop and Premiere which is helping me,

                                                             

                                                            Michael

                                                            • 27. Re: Initial page setup
                                                              MW Design Level 4

                                                              Michael--in some respects ID's complexity is due to more "moving parts" It isn't a single input, single output type of application. There are many means of getting info into ID, many for getting it out to multiple different intents.

                                                               

                                                              The basics you will learn as outlined by Willi are absolutely fundamental. Things like the paragraph and character styles, how to adjust the paragraph styles to suit the purpose, using the character styles to override aspects of the paragraph style, both provide consistency in the publication. Adding Object Styles in order to efficiently alter everything that uses that Object style is powerful.

                                                               

                                                              Mike

                                                              • 28. Re: Initial page setup
                                                                redbourn Level 1

                                                                Thanks very much.

                                                                 

                                                                I will succeed in learning what I need to know about InDesign to correctly publish my book ;-)

                                                                 

                                                                Thanks to some very good tutorials and so many kind people here.

                                                                 

                                                                Michael