20 Replies Latest reply on Mar 20, 2015 5:04 AM by rob day

    InD 6 file color different in Acrobat

    icfives

      I set my color profile in Bridge so all programs in CS6 sync. Images I build in Pshop (RGB 6x9@300 res) retain color when imported into InD.

      If I export the InD file as jpg, image also retains color. But when I export same InD file as PDF, the color shifts slightly. This is not always this noticeable.

      But in this attached sample, you can see more of a purplish blue than in the InD window file. I can send the client the jpg with more accurate color.

      But I should be able to do same with a PDF, in case they prefer a PDF.

      The inset box shows the pref color setting in Acrobat.

      How can I get Acrobat color to match InD and Pshop?

       

      PDF vs InD.jpg

        • 1. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
          Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

          What is the color space of the images you place in InDesign?

          What is the color space of the JPG you export from InDesign? What is the purpose of the JPG?

          What is the color space of the PDF you are exporting? What are the PDF export settings? What is the purpose for the PDF?

          • 2. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            But when I export same InD file as PDF, the color shifts slightly. This is not always this noticeable.

             

            When you export to PDF, color may or may not stay as RGB—it depends on the settings you choose in the Output tab. You can choose Color>Color Conversion>No Color Conversion, or if you choose Convert to Destination, the Destination has to be an RGB profile.

             

            If you keep the color as RGB, AcrobatPro may show a simulation of how the RGB color will convert to CMYK depending on your Simulation Preview settings in Output Preview

             

            If you save as PDF/X-4 an Output Intent CMYK profile is included even when the RGB color is left unchanged. In that case Acrobat Reader will use the output intent CMYK profile for display.

            • 3. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
              icfives Level 1

              In original quere, I forgot to mention the Pshop file saved for InD is .tif  Color space is RGB. This file is imported into InD.

              The jpg color space exported from InD is RGB. Purpose was to see if this jpg retained color better than the PDF version. I didn't want to send client a faded version.

              I typically do not export jpgs from InD, mainly PDFs.

              I have attached three screen captures of the PDF export options.

              The PDF purpose is multiple.... to use as proof to client for edits etc, and final would go to printer for either digital (RGB color xerox) or offset printing (CMYK)

              • 4. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
                icfives Level 1

                Perhaps the Output tab is the issue? I've attached three screen captures of PDF export settings used for the PDF screen capture in original quere. I forgot to attach them in first response...

                 

                PDF settings.pngPDF settings2.pngPDF settings3.png

                • 5. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  If there's transparency on the page or in the placed file, you have to consider the transparency blend space. If you want everything to stay as RGB the blend space would have to be RGB. Also, set your Profile Inclusion Policy to Include All Profiles.

                  • 6. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
                    icfives Level 1

                    thanks Rob for this option. I did check and the Trans Blend space WAS CMYK. When I selected RGB, I did see a slight shift in the .tif image overall in InD. Unfortunately the subsequent saved PDF still shows the slight purplish tinge which is not present in the InD file. Perhaps its something about this color range?

                     

                    I do realize this color range of greenish-blue does not hold up well in CMYK printing.

                     

                    It appears the client is wanting to see other color options. So this may become a mute point. Still I hope to realize why this color shift. I also checked InD color swatches for text (which would not pertain to the .tif) if they were RGB or CMYK and if that made a difference in the PDF export.

                     

                    Any difference was quite faint. Appreciate any other options you may have.

                    The logo at bottom is Illust eps and does not appear to be affected by the PDF export.

                    • 7. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      You might be seeing a bug with Acrobat X and later where the conversion of document color into the OS monitor profile for soft proofing is not right. There have been a bunch of threads, here's one:

                       

                      Re: Desaturated colors in Acrobat XI vs ok colors in Acrobat 9

                      • 8. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
                        icfives Level 1

                        Thanks Rob. This forum certainly seems to have the answers.

                        Since I only have Acrobat Pro 10.1.13 (from installing CS6), I would have to download Acrobat 8 for the PDF color accuracy they discuss. Is this possible?

                         

                        I called Adobe after the CS upgrade to 6 questioning why Acrobat Pro was not also updated. They responded saying I would have to purchase Acrobat Pro 11 if I wanted newer version.

                         

                        I suppose there may come a time when the suite will no longer be available either? Selling only separate programs?

                         

                        Regardless, I appreciate your link to the bug explanation. If I can get Acrobat 8 (which should be free I would think being older version) sounds like it should run on same OS as Acrobat 10?

                         

                        iMac 27, OS 10.8.5, CS6

                        • 9. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
                          BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                          Acrobat is one of the few applications that Adobe still sells as a perpetual license.

                          • 10. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
                            icfives Level 1

                            I cannot find a trace of Acrobat Pro 8 on adobe.com other than forums indicating issues with 8. Their oldest download is 10

                             

                            So perpetual license means, since I have Acrobat Pro 10.1.13, if I could find an 8 version, I should be able to use my CS6 serial #?

                             

                            I cannot determine on the internet if 8 will even run on 10.8.5. Would you know?

                             

                            I'm still upset Adobe is forcing me to buy the latest update rather than including it in CS6 as in previous suites.  thanks

                            • 11. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
                              BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                              Acrobat 8 hasn’t been sold in quite a few years. Adobe simply doesn’t sell old versions once new ones are released.

                              • 12. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
                                icfives Level 1

                                thanks.

                                 

                                So perpetual license means, since I have Acrobat Pro 10.1.13, if I could find an 8 version, I should be able to use my CS6 serial #?

                                 

                                I cannot determine on the internet if 8 will even run on 10.8.5. Would you know?

                                • 13. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
                                  Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                                  No, even if it was sold together with the CS programs, Acrobat had always a different serial #.

                                  But with CS6 only Acrobat Pro X or XI was or is sold.

                                  • 14. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
                                    BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                    Originally, I think that might have been the case but not anymore. If you buy a perpetually licensed CS6 suite Acrobat X Pro is included and uses the same installer and serial number.

                                    • 15. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
                                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      Since I only have Acrobat Pro 10.1.13 (from installing CS6), I would have to download Acrobat 8 for the PDF color accuracy they discuss. Is this possible?

                                      This is only a display softproof issue, it has no affect on output or conversions.

                                      • 16. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
                                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        if I could find an 8 version

                                         

                                        I think you want to be careful about trying to avoid a fairly benign bug by installing old software. You maybe seeing the monitor profile bug, but it could also be the assigned profiles interacting with the chosen simulation profile in AcrobatPro.

                                         

                                        If you want to include RGB objects in a print workflow it's essential that all of the RGB objects have embedded profiles—you would never want DeviceRGB (RGB without a profile). So whatever version of AcrobatPro you use check the RGB profiles via Acrobat's Output Preview>Object Inspector.

                                         

                                        The best way to ensure that the correct profiles are included  is to use the PDF/X-4 preset. Here in InDesign I can see that a sample RGB image has AdobeRGB embedded via the Links panel—it's not DocumentRGB:

                                         

                                        Screen Shot 2015-03-18 at 11.43.44 AM.png

                                         

                                         

                                        If I export to PDF/X-4, Object inspector will show the image as RGB with the embedded AdobeRGB profile when I click on it. The preview however depends on the Simulation Profile. Here I have it as the CMYK output intent, but I could also choose Abobe RGB and get an RGB preview:

                                         

                                        Screen Shot 2015-03-18 at 11.49.10 AM.png

                                         

                                         

                                        If you don't use the PDF/X-4 preset it would be possible to lose the embedded profile (depending on your settings) and that would cause both an output and a softproof problem. You don't want DeviceRGB:

                                         

                                        Screen Shot 2015-03-18 at 12.15.55 PM.png

                                        • 17. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
                                          icfives Level 1

                                          thanks much Rob for all the feedback. I'm making sense of most of it. I've tried the options above as best I could find them. However, I'm still baffled as to why I cannot cause the PDF to match the InD file color.

                                           

                                          Staying with the RGB discussion, not CMYK.

                                           

                                          Here's a better example than the original blue import above. In this instance, the yellow-gold bkgd is also Pshop / RGB / tif 300 res. Same computer & program versions as stated above.

                                           

                                          I also, as suggested earlier, verified the InD transparency blend space was RGB.

                                           

                                          In this example, using Output Preview & Transparency Blender Color Space options, I can see changes in the bkgd tif, but nothing I try will match the InD blue text. The blue text in PDF never shifts regardless of settings in the PDF OP & TBCS windows.

                                           

                                          I went back to InD thinking the text blue was CMYK. It was. I then picked another RGB blue to match it and used that in the next PDF export. Still no shift in the PDF display.

                                           

                                          I've noticed when I test other PDFs from InD for these color spaces, the TBCS is always default DeviceRGB which was not recommended. I was not even aware of this setting being there. Is there any way I can change this default setting in case I overlook this setting in a future PDF output? I cannot see how to do this.

                                           

                                          Also after making the TBCS change to Adobe RGB (1998) then click Apply, after the process bar disappears, the preview image never reappears in the large white box.

                                           

                                          Perhaps this is part of the color bug mentioned above in this Acrobat version. Which also leads me to sense whether all our efforts are of any help if the bug is preventing any color accuracy anyway. I just can't afford a latest version of Acrobat purchase which appears to be overcoming the bug issue.

                                           

                                          Appreciate any insights with this. There are just too many options for color adjustments   :-)

                                           

                                          PDF color.pngPDF color2.png

                                          • 18. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
                                            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            Why are you using spot colors for the white and blue? Do you really plan on outputting 5th and 6th colors?

                                            • 19. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
                                              icfives Level 1

                                              Apologize for not clarifying. No. This will be for digital output like Staples etc. Most of the work I've had past couple years have all required digital printers because of low quantities - under 500. Way to expensive for offset.

                                               

                                              So I've discovered, I can do all the files and color swatches in RGB which look richer and to the client. And because of no dot patterns etc, the final printer output is richer than CMYK offset.

                                               

                                              I don't know if powders vs inks affects this or not.

                                               

                                              That said, I do realize the equipment uses CMYK powders. But for some reason, their RIP units are able to retain difficult colors, like PMS 3242, which is virtually impossible with CMYK.

                                              • 20. Re: InD 6 file color different in Acrobat
                                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                There's no reason to set your swatches as spot—your just adding another conversion variable.

                                                 

                                                If you look at an object with a spot color fill in Acrobat's Object inspector you'll see that there's no color space info—it shows as a separation with one color value:

                                                 

                                                Screen Shot 2015-03-20 at 7.58.32 AM.png

                                                If I change the spot to process and export as PDF/X4 the color space, values, and profile are there:

                                                 

                                                Screen Shot 2015-03-20 at 8.00.18 AM.png