1 2 3 Previous Next 107 Replies Latest reply on May 19, 2006 5:46 AM by Newsgroup_User
      • 1. Re: did y'all see this?
        Level 7
        You can get it for yourself - a public beta has been released....

        --
        Murray --- ICQ 71997575
        Adobe Community Expert
        (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
        ==================
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        ==================


        "Rachael Caldwell" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
        news:e4cekp$crv$1@forums.macromedia.com...
        > http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20060515/tc_pcworld/125703
        >
        >


        • 2. Re: did y'all see this?
          Level 7
          They're looking for testers.

          Download the CTP (Community Technology Preview) here
          http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/downloads.aspx

          --
          Regards

          John Waller


          • 3. Re: did y'all see this?
            Level 7
            > http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20060515/tc_pcworld/125703

            From the article:

            <quote>
            Smith also stressed Microsoft's effort to support standards such as
            Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) in Web Designer. CSS is the standard technology
            Web designers use to create modern Web-site layout. Microsoft enables Web
            designers not only to build pages using CSS but also manage the underlying
            code, which can be a hassle for developers, Smith said.
            </quote>

            Kind of funny, given how long it has taken IE itself to support CSS (I
            haven't installed the IE7 beta yet).


            David
            stiller (at) quip (dot) net
            Dev essays: http://www.quip.net/blog/
            "Luck is the residue of good design."


            • 4. Re: did y'all see this?
              Level 7
              "David Stiller" <stiller-NO-SPAM-@quip.net> wrote in message
              news:e4cgu9$fma$1@forums.macromedia.com...
              > <quote>
              > Smith also stressed Microsoft's effort to support standards such as
              > Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) in Web Designer. CSS is the standard
              > technology Web designers use to create modern Web-site layout.
              > Microsoft enables Web designers not only to build pages using CSS but
              > also manage the underlying code, which can be a hassle for developers,
              > Smith said.
              > </quote>
              >
              > Kind of funny, given how long it has taken IE itself to support CSS
              > (I haven't installed the IE7 beta yet).

              Actually, Microsoft produced the first browser with CSS support. IE7, by
              the way, is quite good - as is Expression. Just as Microsoft needed
              competition from good browsers, Dreamweaver will finally have a worthy
              competitor, which will hopefully raise the bar all around. Good stuff
              never hurts.

              --
              Al Sparber
              PVII
              http://www.projectseven.com

              "Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
              mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs
              are scheduled for next Tuesday".





              • 5. Re: did y'all see this?
                Level 7
                Al,

                > Actually, Microsoft produced the first browser with CSS
                > support. IE7, by the way, is quite good - as is Expression.

                Fair enough.

                I really should have clarified my hyperbole. What I stated was ...
                well, simply untrue -- and certainly misleading.

                What I meant was that IE (up until v7, from what I hear) has had
                relatively weak CSS support. Things that "just work" in the likes of
                Firefox et. al. have to be "worked around" in IE. I think most of the known
                CSS hacks (popular enough to have names) exist because of IE 5, 6, etc.

                > Just as Microsoft needed competition from good browsers,
                > Dreamweaver will finally have a worthy competitor,

                Agreed. I'm curious how Expression will fare.

                Al, is there a reliable way to install IE7 and keep IE6 around?


                David
                stiller (at) quip (dot) net
                Dev essays: http://www.quip.net/blog/
                "Luck is the residue of good design."


                • 6. Re: did y'all see this?
                  Level 7

                  > http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20060515/tc_pcworld/125703

                  "Smith also stressed Microsoft's effort to support standards such as
                  Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) in Web Designer."

                  There's a chilly breeze in hell this morning.

                  -Darrel


                  • 7. Re: did y'all see this?
                    Level 7
                    "darrel" <notreal@nowhere.com> wrote in message
                    news:e4ckn3$kh0$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                    >
                    >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20060515/tc_pcworld/125703
                    >
                    > "Smith also stressed Microsoft's effort to support standards such as
                    > Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) in Web Designer."
                    >
                    > There's a chilly breeze in hell this morning.

                    Bundle up. It's nice and warm up here.

                    • 8. Re: did y'all see this?
                      Level 7
                      It's support of CSS is damn good, for what it's worth (both IE7 and EWD).
                      It would be mighty embarrassing if EWD could build pages that IE7 cannot
                      render, no?

                      --
                      Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                      Adobe Community Expert
                      (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                      ==================
                      http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
                      http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                      http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                      http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
                      ==================


                      "darrel" <notreal@nowhere.com> wrote in message
                      news:e4ckn3$kh0$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                      >
                      >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20060515/tc_pcworld/125703
                      >
                      > "Smith also stressed Microsoft's effort to support standards such as
                      > Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) in Web Designer."
                      >
                      > There's a chilly breeze in hell this morning.
                      >
                      > -Darrel
                      >


                      • 9. Re: did y'all see this?
                        Level 7
                        > Al, is there a reliable way to install IE7 and keep IE6 around?

                        Get VirtualPC. It just rocks.

                        --
                        Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                        Adobe Community Expert
                        (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                        ==================
                        http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
                        http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                        http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                        http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
                        ==================


                        "David Stiller" <stiller-NO-SPAM-@quip.net> wrote in message
                        news:e4ckfv$k42$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                        > Al,
                        >
                        >> Actually, Microsoft produced the first browser with CSS
                        >> support. IE7, by the way, is quite good - as is Expression.
                        >
                        > Fair enough.
                        >
                        > I really should have clarified my hyperbole. What I stated was ...
                        > well, simply untrue -- and certainly misleading.
                        >
                        > What I meant was that IE (up until v7, from what I hear) has had
                        > relatively weak CSS support. Things that "just work" in the likes of
                        > Firefox et. al. have to be "worked around" in IE. I think most of the
                        > known CSS hacks (popular enough to have names) exist because of IE 5, 6,
                        > etc.
                        >
                        >> Just as Microsoft needed competition from good browsers,
                        >> Dreamweaver will finally have a worthy competitor,
                        >
                        > Agreed. I'm curious how Expression will fare.
                        >
                        > Al, is there a reliable way to install IE7 and keep IE6 around?
                        >
                        >
                        > David
                        > stiller (at) quip (dot) net
                        > Dev essays: http://www.quip.net/blog/
                        > "Luck is the residue of good design."
                        >


                        • 10. Re: did y'all see this?
                          Level 7
                          "David Stiller" <stiller-NO-SPAM-@quip.net> wrote in message
                          news:e4ckfv$k42$1@forums.macromedia.com...

                          > Al, is there a reliable way to install IE7 and keep IE6 around?

                          I I find Virtual PC the safest say and it's an indispensible webdev
                          tool, in my opinion.

                          • 11. Re: did y'all see this?
                            Level 7
                            On Tue, 16 May 2006 08:35:20 -0400, "David Stiller"
                            <stiller-NO-SPAM-@quip.net> wrote:

                            > Kind of funny, given how long it has taken IE itself to support CSS (I
                            >haven't installed the IE7 beta yet).


                            Even funnier when you consider that the page at
                            http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/default.mspx has 37
                            validation errors: http://tinyurl.com/gw9ve

                            Gary
                            • 12. Re: did y'all see this?
                              Level 7
                              "Gary White" <reply@newsgroup.please> wrote in message
                              news qlj62p63nfiv2jvambvbs0r6b6aapq602@4ax.com...
                              > On Tue, 16 May 2006 08:35:20 -0400, "David Stiller"
                              > <stiller-NO-SPAM-@quip.net> wrote:
                              >
                              >> Kind of funny, given how long it has taken IE itself to support
                              >> CSS (I
                              >>haven't installed the IE7 beta yet).
                              >
                              >
                              > Even funnier when you consider that the page at
                              > http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/default.mspx has 37
                              > validation errors: http://tinyurl.com/gw9ve

                              With all due respect, I've yet to explore a web site of medium-to-large
                              size where the validator can be aced for every page. Check a few Adobe
                              pages - especially in the devnet sections. Any time you get over 100
                              pages, with mixed content and technologies, there are going to be either
                              mistakes or compromises. I dare say our site probably has a few pages
                              that don't validate. Most of the times we know why, other times there
                              are simply oversights. Oddly enough, Microsoft's home page passes while
                              Adobe's fails.

                              --
                              Al

                              • 13. Re: did y'all see this?
                                i watched a couple of the videos, looks pretty impressive. VERY similar interface to DW. The dynamic content video only mentions asp.net but surely it supports the other languages too.
                                One nice touch i noticed - you can preview in browser and choose what resolution to preview in.

                                Andy
                                • 14. Re: did y'all see this?
                                  Level 7

                                  "FreakyJesus" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                  news:e4cog9$pgd$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                  >i watched a couple of the videos, looks pretty impressive.

                                  First time I watched them all the way through also and have to agree, does
                                  look impressive....


                                  --
                                  Nadia
                                  Adobe� Community Expert : Dreamweaver
                                  --------------------------------------------
                                  http://www.csstemplates.com.au - CSS Templates | Free Templates
                                  --------------------------------------------
                                  http://www.DreamweaverResources.com - Dropdown Menu Templates|Tutorials
                                  http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/dreamweaver/css.html - CSS Tutorials
                                  -------------------------------------------------


                                  • 15. Re: did y'all see this?
                                    Level 7
                                    > One nice touch i noticed - you can preview in browser and choose what
                                    > resolution to preview in.

                                    Why is this nice? It still doesn't show you what you need?

                                    --
                                    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                    Adobe Community Expert
                                    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                    ==================
                                    http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
                                    http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                    http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                    http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
                                    ==================


                                    "FreakyJesus" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                    news:e4cog9$pgd$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                    >i watched a couple of the videos, looks pretty impressive. VERY similar
                                    > interface to DW. The dynamic content video only mentions asp.net but
                                    > surely it
                                    > supports the other languages too.
                                    > One nice touch i noticed - you can preview in browser and choose what
                                    > resolution to preview in.
                                    >
                                    > Andy
                                    >


                                    • 16. Re: did y'all see this?
                                      Level 7

                                      "FreakyJesus" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                      news:e4cog9$pgd$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                      >i watched a couple of the videos, looks pretty impressive. VERY similar
                                      > interface to DW. The dynamic content video only mentions asp.net but
                                      > surely it
                                      > supports the other languages too.

                                      I wouldn't hold my breath.


                                      • 17. Re: did y'all see this?
                                        Level 7
                                        Well .. I would .. but I get this:

                                        We are encountering technical difficulties.

                                        We are working on this problem right now
                                        and hope to have it resolved soon.

                                        Please check back again tomorrow morning PST.

                                        .. oops ...
                                        Unfortunately, I'll be on a plane tomorrow morning. Ah well .. there is
                                        always next week.


                                        --
                                        Nancy Gill
                                        Adobe Community Expert
                                        BLOG: http://www.dmxwishes.com/blog.asp
                                        Author: Dreamweaver 8 e-book for the DMX Zone
                                        Co-Author: Dreamweaver MX: Instant Troubleshooter (August, 2003)
                                        Technical Editor: DMX 2004: The Complete Reference, DMX 2004: A Beginner's
                                        Guide, Mastering Macromedia Contribute
                                        Technical Reviewer: Dynamic Dreamweaver MX/DMX: Advanced PHP Web Development









                                        "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                        news:e4cf5i$dh7$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                        > You can get it for yourself - a public beta has been released....
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                        > Adobe Community Expert
                                        > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                        > ==================
                                        > http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
                                        > http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                        > http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                        > http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
                                        > ==================
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > "Rachael Caldwell" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
                                        > news:e4cekp$crv$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                        >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20060515/tc_pcworld/125703
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >


                                        • 18. Re: did y'all see this?
                                          Level 7
                                          Heading to TODCON? 8)

                                          --
                                          Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                          Adobe Community Expert
                                          (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                          ==================
                                          http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
                                          http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                          http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                          http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
                                          ==================


                                          "Nancy *ACE*" <nancy@webwish.com> wrote in message
                                          news:e4cq7g$rqk$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                          > Well .. I would .. but I get this:
                                          >
                                          > We are encountering technical difficulties.
                                          >
                                          > We are working on this problem right now
                                          > and hope to have it resolved soon.
                                          >
                                          > Please check back again tomorrow morning PST.
                                          >
                                          > .. oops ...
                                          > Unfortunately, I'll be on a plane tomorrow morning. Ah well .. there is
                                          > always next week.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --
                                          > Nancy Gill
                                          > Adobe Community Expert
                                          > BLOG: http://www.dmxwishes.com/blog.asp
                                          > Author: Dreamweaver 8 e-book for the DMX Zone
                                          > Co-Author: Dreamweaver MX: Instant Troubleshooter (August, 2003)
                                          > Technical Editor: DMX 2004: The Complete Reference, DMX 2004: A
                                          > Beginner's
                                          > Guide, Mastering Macromedia Contribute
                                          > Technical Reviewer: Dynamic Dreamweaver MX/DMX: Advanced PHP Web
                                          > Development
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                          > news:e4cf5i$dh7$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                          >> You can get it for yourself - a public beta has been released....
                                          >>
                                          >> --
                                          >> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                          >> Adobe Community Expert
                                          >> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                          >> ==================
                                          >> http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
                                          >> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                          >> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                          >> http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
                                          >> ==================
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> "Rachael Caldwell" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
                                          >> news:e4cekp$crv$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                          >>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20060515/tc_pcworld/125703
                                          >>>
                                          >>>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >
                                          >


                                          • 19. Re: did y'all see this?
                                            Level 7
                                            On Tue, 16 May 2006 09:55:18 -0400, "Al Sparber- PVII"
                                            <hiding@nospam.net> wrote:

                                            >With all due respect, I've yet to explore a web site of medium-to-large
                                            >size where the validator can be aced for every page. Check a few Adobe
                                            >pages - especially in the devnet sections. Any time you get over 100
                                            >pages, with mixed content and technologies, there are going to be either
                                            >mistakes or compromises. I dare say our site probably has a few pages
                                            >that don't validate. Most of the times we know why, other times there
                                            >are simply oversights. Oddly enough, Microsoft's home page passes while
                                            >Adobe's fails.


                                            No argument there, Al. It's just that they're touting standards
                                            compliance and the page is missing a doctype. I tried to download it,
                                            but I get an error message:

                                            We are encountering technical difficulties.

                                            We are working on this problem right now
                                            and hope to have it resolved soon.

                                            Please check back again tomorrow morning PST.


                                            My work is all PHP/MySQL, so I doubt it will work for me anyway.

                                            Gary
                                            • 20. Re: did y'all see this?
                                              Level 7
                                              There is no built-in support for PHP.

                                              They had a glitch in the digital certificate of the download file. It's
                                              being fixed as we speak.

                                              --
                                              Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                              Adobe Community Expert
                                              (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                              ==================
                                              http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
                                              http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                              http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                              http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
                                              ==================


                                              "Gary White" <reply@newsgroup.please> wrote in message
                                              news:njrj625c8gvrhaicgco148vemijtikkp6r@4ax.com...
                                              > On Tue, 16 May 2006 09:55:18 -0400, "Al Sparber- PVII"
                                              > <hiding@nospam.net> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >>With all due respect, I've yet to explore a web site of medium-to-large
                                              >>size where the validator can be aced for every page. Check a few Adobe
                                              >>pages - especially in the devnet sections. Any time you get over 100
                                              >>pages, with mixed content and technologies, there are going to be either
                                              >>mistakes or compromises. I dare say our site probably has a few pages
                                              >>that don't validate. Most of the times we know why, other times there
                                              >>are simply oversights. Oddly enough, Microsoft's home page passes while
                                              >>Adobe's fails.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > No argument there, Al. It's just that they're touting standards
                                              > compliance and the page is missing a doctype. I tried to download it,
                                              > but I get an error message:
                                              >
                                              > We are encountering technical difficulties.
                                              >
                                              > We are working on this problem right now
                                              > and hope to have it resolved soon.
                                              >
                                              > Please check back again tomorrow morning PST.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > My work is all PHP/MySQL, so I doubt it will work for me anyway.
                                              >
                                              > Gary


                                              • 21. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                Level 7
                                                On Tue, 16 May 2006 11:49:13 -0400, "Murray *ACE*"
                                                <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote:

                                                >There is no built-in support for PHP.

                                                Then there's no danger of it replacing DW as my tool of choice.


                                                >They had a glitch in the digital certificate of the download file. It's
                                                >being fixed as we speak.

                                                Thanks.

                                                Gary
                                                • 22. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                  Level 7
                                                  In article <e4cgu9$fma$1@forums.macromedia.com>,
                                                  "David Stiller" <stiller-NO-SPAM-@quip.net> wrote:

                                                  > <quote>
                                                  > Smith also stressed Microsoft's effort to support standards such as
                                                  > Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) in Web Designer. CSS is the standard technology
                                                  > Web designers use to create modern Web-site layout. Microsoft enables Web
                                                  > designers not only to build pages using CSS but also manage the underlying
                                                  > code, which can be a hassle for developers, Smith said.
                                                  > </quote>
                                                  >
                                                  > Kind of funny, given how long it has taken IE itself to support CSS (I
                                                  > haven't installed the IE7 beta yet).
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > David
                                                  > stiller (at) quip (dot) net
                                                  > Dev essays: http://www.quip.net/blog/
                                                  > "Luck is the residue of good design."

                                                  Okay David, you're making this up <LOL!> Microsoft AND support CSS in
                                                  the same paragraph????????? Maybe the key is the word "effort".
                                                  • 23. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                    Level 7
                                                    >> Kind of funny, given how long it has taken IE itself to
                                                    >> support CSS (I haven't installed the IE7 beta yet).

                                                    > Okay David, you're making this up <LOL!> Microsoft AND
                                                    > support CSS in the same paragraph????????? Maybe the key
                                                    > is the word "effort".

                                                    I admit, I was going for a laugh (glad I got one!) -- but as Al Sparber
                                                    correctly pointed out, IE certainly does support CSS. It's just that the
                                                    support has historically been less W3C-compliant than than the CSS support
                                                    of other browsers.


                                                    David
                                                    stiller (at) quip (dot) net
                                                    Dev essays: http://www.quip.net/blog/
                                                    "Luck is the residue of good design."


                                                    • 24. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                      Level 7
                                                      Rachael Caldwell wrote:
                                                      > http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20060515/tc_pcworld/125703
                                                      >

                                                      I'm amazed the open source community hasn't created a kick-*** web
                                                      design program yet. At any rate, it will be interesting to see how
                                                      loudly all the Microsofties on this forum cheer for Dreamweaver's newest
                                                      competition.

                                                      Regarding IE7, I think some of the definitions at UrbanDictionary.com
                                                      sum it up: It's an awesome tool for downloading Firefox.

                                                      Let's face it, Bill Gates' elves had to work their butts off to come up
                                                      with a browser that's almost as good as Firefox. By the time Wista
                                                      (Windows Vista) is released (June 2007???), the folks at Mozilla will
                                                      probably have released several more Firefox upgrades.

                                                      Remember: There's no free lunch (unless you're Bill Gates)
                                                      • 25. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                        Level 7
                                                        > Regarding IE7, I think some of the definitions at UrbanDictionary.com sum
                                                        > it up: It's an awesome tool for downloading Firefox.
                                                        >
                                                        > Let's face it, Bill Gates' elves had to work their butts off to come up
                                                        > with a browser that's almost as good as Firefox. By the time Wista
                                                        > (Windows Vista) is released (June 2007???), the folks at Mozilla will
                                                        > probably have released several more Firefox upgrades.

                                                        I suppose the big difference is that Bill knows he's developing the next
                                                        version of the world's most popular browser and, when released, there's
                                                        little doubt in my mind that IE's marketshare will increase markedly again.

                                                        There will be few reasons to migrate to FF - I don't actually know many
                                                        people who have done so without me suggesting it to them. The reasons for
                                                        migration today are clear enough but they'll disappear.

                                                        Don't get me wrong: I love FF but I very much like what I'm seeing in IE7
                                                        too.

                                                        --
                                                        Regards

                                                        John Waller


                                                        • 26. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                          Level 7
                                                          In article <e4de3c$o0k$1@forums.macromedia.com>,
                                                          "John Waller" <johnw@REMOVETHISpinnacleweb.com.au> wrote:

                                                          > There will be few reasons to migrate to FF - I don't actually know many
                                                          > people who have done so without me suggesting it to them. The reasons for
                                                          > migration today are clear enough but they'll disappear.

                                                          Same on the Mac I'd say. Most stick with Safari for the same reason --
                                                          it comes with the OS. What bugs me is when they never update it!!
                                                          Not sure if Windows updates include updating IE like Mac OS does (Safari
                                                          that is) or if it's separate in which case, many don't bother.

                                                          We're creatures of habit
                                                          • 27. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                            Level 7
                                                            John Waller wrote:
                                                            >> Regarding IE7, I think some of the definitions at UrbanDictionary.com sum
                                                            >> it up: It's an awesome tool for downloading Firefox.
                                                            >>
                                                            >> Let's face it, Bill Gates' elves had to work their butts off to come up
                                                            >> with a browser that's almost as good as Firefox. By the time Wista
                                                            >> (Windows Vista) is released (June 2007???), the folks at Mozilla will
                                                            >> probably have released several more Firefox upgrades.
                                                            >
                                                            > I suppose the big difference is that Bill knows he's developing the next
                                                            > version of the world's most popular browser and, when released, there's
                                                            > little doubt in my mind that IE's marketshare will increase markedly again.

                                                            Well, of course...but I'd wager it won't be as respectable as IE6's
                                                            market share.

                                                            > There will be few reasons to migrate to FF - I don't actually know many
                                                            > people who have done so without me suggesting it to them. The reasons for
                                                            > migration today are clear enough but they'll disappear.

                                                            No, the reasons to migrate will increase as one browser leaves the other
                                                            in the dust - and IE isn't going to be leading the pack.

                                                            > Don't get me wrong: I love FF but I very much like what I'm seeing in IE7
                                                            > too.
                                                            >

                                                            I like what I'm NOT seeing in IE7.
                                                            • 28. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                              Level 7
                                                              > Not sure if Windows updates include updating IE like Mac OS does (Safari
                                                              > that is) or if it's separate in which case, many don't bother.

                                                              Windows Update has been updated :-) and is now known as Microsoft Updates.

                                                              They've centralised all MS updates so Windows, Office, IE etc etc can be
                                                              updated from one place.

                                                              So when IE7 goes Gold, those who have updates set to Automatic may wake up
                                                              to a brand new browser.

                                                              --
                                                              Regards

                                                              John Waller


                                                              • 29. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                                Level 7
                                                                >> There will be few reasons to migrate to FF - I don't actually know many
                                                                >> people who have done so without me suggesting it to them. The reasons for
                                                                >> migration today are clear enough but they'll disappear.
                                                                >
                                                                > No, the reasons to migrate will increase as one browser leaves the other
                                                                > in the dust - and IE isn't going to be leading the pack.

                                                                Your loyalty and enthusiasm is admirable but I cannot see reasons for
                                                                migration increasing.

                                                                Feature for feature IE7 may not match FF to the nth degree (and IE7 is
                                                                certainly a catch-up project for MS as they've admitted many times) but then
                                                                that's never been the sole hallmark of a successful product other than for
                                                                geeks. Widespread adoption and greater security is more important for Bill.
                                                                I think he'll achieve that.

                                                                --
                                                                Regards

                                                                John Waller


                                                                • 30. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                                  Level 7
                                                                  Open source is falling on hard times lately. I don't expect things to
                                                                  improve for it....

                                                                  --
                                                                  Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                                  Adobe Community Expert
                                                                  (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                                  ==================
                                                                  http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
                                                                  http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                                  http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                                  http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
                                                                  ==================


                                                                  "David Blomstrom" <david_blomstrom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
                                                                  news:e4ddhs$na9$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                  > Rachael Caldwell wrote:
                                                                  >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20060515/tc_pcworld/125703
                                                                  >>
                                                                  >
                                                                  > I'm amazed the open source community hasn't created a kick-*** web design
                                                                  > program yet. At any rate, it will be interesting to see how loudly all the
                                                                  > Microsofties on this forum cheer for Dreamweaver's newest competition.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Regarding IE7, I think some of the definitions at UrbanDictionary.com sum
                                                                  > it up: It's an awesome tool for downloading Firefox.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Let's face it, Bill Gates' elves had to work their butts off to come up
                                                                  > with a browser that's almost as good as Firefox. By the time Wista
                                                                  > (Windows Vista) is released (June 2007???), the folks at Mozilla will
                                                                  > probably have released several more Firefox upgrades.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Remember: There's no free lunch (unless you're Bill Gates)


                                                                  • 31. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                                    Level 7
                                                                    Murray *ACE* wrote:
                                                                    > Open source is falling on hard times lately. I don't expect things to
                                                                    > improve for it....
                                                                    >

                                                                    If "hard times" means Microsoft manipulation (e.g. SCO, Preston Gates &
                                                                    Ellis, secret deals with the federal government, etc.), then, yes, open
                                                                    source in general has indeed fallen on hard times.

                                                                    But I really don't think PHP and MySQL are doing so badly, and Firefox
                                                                    is still chugging along quite nicely.

                                                                    But it isn't just open source. M$ is now getting some stiff competition
                                                                    from Google, Apple and others. Moreover, Apple and Google are pouring a
                                                                    lot of resources into open source, which is one reason why I do expect
                                                                    things to improve for it.

                                                                    Bill Gates is also losing the public relations battle, and that can be a
                                                                    significant economic factor.
                                                                    • 32. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                                      Level 7
                                                                      > Bill Gates is also losing the public relations battle

                                                                      You think so?

                                                                      Which "public" is being referred to here?

                                                                      :-)

                                                                      --
                                                                      Regards

                                                                      John Waller


                                                                      • 33. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                                        Level 7
                                                                        go run for the school board again. rant rant rant.

                                                                        • 34. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                                          Level 7
                                                                          John Waller wrote:
                                                                          >> Bill Gates is also losing the public relations battle
                                                                          >
                                                                          > You think so?
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Which "public" is being referred to here?
                                                                          >
                                                                          > :-)
                                                                          >

                                                                          The general public. That's what Bill Gates' "philanthropy" is all about;
                                                                          he can't whitewash Microsoft's reputation for corruption, so he tried to
                                                                          separate himself from Microsoft by 1) *officially* stepping aside as CEO
                                                                          and 2) continuing his public relations assault, which hinges largely on
                                                                          his so-called philanthropy.

                                                                          A few years ago, discussions of Microsoft on political forums typically
                                                                          transformed into spirited flame wars. Over time, it changed, with fewer
                                                                          and fewer Microsofties supporting Microsoft; instead, they rallied
                                                                          behind Bill Gates' philanthropy. But I've noticed an increasing number
                                                                          of people pegging his philanthropy for what it is - public relations
                                                                          with a new coat of paint.

                                                                          I've also noticed a few articles discussing the relative values of
                                                                          corporate names and noting that "Microsoft" is an anchor around Bill
                                                                          Gates' neck, while Google and Apple are among the most respected and
                                                                          trusted names.

                                                                          I think part of the reason is that Bill Gates has become so closely
                                                                          associated with the Republican Party. As George Bush's public approval
                                                                          rating sinks into the 20's, Bill Gates is sure to follow. And wherever
                                                                          Bill Gates goes, Microsoft follows.
                                                                          • 35. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                                            Level 7
                                                                            Alan wrote:
                                                                            > go run for the school board again. rant rant rant.
                                                                            >

                                                                            I wasn't aware Murray had run for school board. How'd he do?
                                                                            • 36. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                                              Level 7
                                                                              That's a fantastic piece of conspiracy theory and over-analysis there,
                                                                              David.

                                                                              You should run for President.

                                                                              :-)

                                                                              --
                                                                              Regards

                                                                              John Waller


                                                                              • 37. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                                                Level 7


                                                                                >> go run for the school board again. rant rant rant.
                                                                                >>
                                                                                >
                                                                                > I wasn't aware Murray had run for school board. How'd he do?

                                                                                ?? Why bring murray's name into this?

                                                                                that has no context in this conversation. You- school board- run again.
                                                                                That's what i said. I want you to stand in free election.

                                                                                Why divert to someone else like murray in this?

                                                                                You are a Johnny One Note. correction, two note.

                                                                                Using thunderbird for an email client, but it's still running on the dark
                                                                                overlord's operating system because you can't fire up linux or mac.

                                                                                http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22david+blomstrom%22

                                                                                http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&newwindow=1&safe=off&c2
                                                                                coff=1&q=%22david+blomstrom%22+election

                                                                                http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&newwindow=1&safe=off&c2
                                                                                coff=1&q=%22david+blomstrom%22+death4bush

                                                                                You know that google has given their search info? And all the phone
                                                                                companies are giving in? your tin foil hat won't protect you for long.......

                                                                                • 38. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                                                  Level 7
                                                                                  John Waller wrote:
                                                                                  > That's a fantastic piece of conspiracy theory and over-analysis there,
                                                                                  > David.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > You should run for President.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > :-)
                                                                                  >

                                                                                  Ah, the C-card. Whenever someone makes an observation you don't like,
                                                                                  just cry "conspiracy theory."

                                                                                  Nice try.
                                                                                  • 39. Re: did y'all see this?
                                                                                    Level 7
                                                                                    Alan wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >>> go run for the school board again. rant rant rant.
                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                    >> I wasn't aware Murray had run for school board. How'd he do?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > ?? Why bring murray's name into this?

                                                                                    Because he rants.

                                                                                    > that has no context in this conversation.

                                                                                    You mentioned ranting.

                                                                                    > You are a Johnny One Note. correction, two note.

                                                                                    I'm certainly not alone. (see Murray and any of the other Microsofties
                                                                                    on this forum)

                                                                                    > Using thunderbird for an email client, but it's still running on the dark
                                                                                    > overlord's operating system because you can't fire up linux or mac.

                                                                                    Oh, please. What will your excuse be after I get a Mac?

                                                                                    > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22david+blomstrom%22
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&newwindow=1&safe=off&c2
                                                                                    > coff=1&q=%22david+blomstrom%22+election
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&newwindow=1&safe=off&c2
                                                                                    > coff=1&q=%22david+blomstrom%22+death4bush

                                                                                    So what's the point of posting a link to Death4Bush? If you want to help
                                                                                    me publicize it, thanks.

                                                                                    > You know that google has given their search info? And all the phone
                                                                                    > companies are giving in? your tin foil hat won't protect you for long.......

                                                                                    It's amazing how much criticism Google gets for doing things Microsoft
                                                                                    did first - especially when Microsoft is guilty of so much more. Why do
                                                                                    you suppose that is? Is it evidence of yet another Microsoft conspiracy,
                                                                                    or is it just mass stupidity?

                                                                                    Finally, you play the "tin foil hat" card. You ought to be a politician.
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