7 Replies Latest reply on Mar 28, 2015 8:20 AM by whsprague

    xavc-s settings?

    Kodiak244

      Using a Sony camera capturing video in xavc-s, 24p, 50mgps, what are the best settings to use for both rendering and uploading to Vimeo with minimal compression or quality loss?

        • 1. Re: xavc-s settings?
          A.T. Romano Level 7

          Kodiak244

           

          What version of Premiere Elements and on what computer operating system is Premiere Elements running?

          Premiere Elements 12/12.1 or 13/13.1?

           

          What are the properties of your XAVC-S video @ 24 progressive frames per second

          a. Is the bitrate "50 mgps" meant to be 50 Mbps (Mbps - megabits per second).

          b. Please confirm the frame size - 3840 x 2160 pixels

          XAVCS.jpg

          Under the Advanced Button/Video Tab, you can adjust the bitrate to 50 Mbps or higher.

           

          Have you read the Vimeo Upload details for file upload to Vimeo at the Vimeo web site

          as it relates to 4K uploads.

          Uploading to Vimeo on Vimeo

           

          Please review and consider the above and then let me know if I have targeted your question. If no,

          please give more details.

           

          Thank you.

           

          ATR

          • 2. Re: xavc-s settings?
            whsprague Level 4

            Kodiak244 wrote:

             

            Using a Sony camera capturing video in xavc-s, 24p, 50mgps, what are the best settings to use for both rendering and uploading to Vimeo with minimal compression or quality loss?

            I'm doing it a little differently than ATR suggests.  I'm using a Panasonic camera for 4K, but it shouldn't be much different than your Sony.

             

            First, Vimeo is constantly changing.  Their compression guidelines are often out of date, confusing and don't seem to match current 4K capability.  They have said they are working on 4K streaming, but now stream only in their "HD" on, or off mode.  Everything you send them will be converted to that.  However, if you are a paying "Plus" or "Pro" customer you have the option of making 1080p, instead of 720p, the streaming HD default.  Plus or Pro members can also select an option allowing "Download of Original".  With those options viewers can watch your video with the streaming system or, for top quality, download a copy for viewing on 4K devices.

             

            To make what I want to upload, I choose a little different pattern.  Like ATR, I select Publish&Share > Computer > XAVC-S and pick the first choice.  Where I differ is that I push the Advanced button and choose the "Match Source" button.  ATR, in previous posts, has said that is unreliable, but I've found the opposite to be true.   Examination of the rendered output seems to be an excellent facsimile of the original despite PrE output encoding.

             

            Regardless of what Vimeo says the compression guidelines are, my XAVC-S output has been accepted without issue.   Note that it helps to have a high bandwidth internet connection!!

             

            My first 4K Vimeo video was done mostly as a test of the procedures from camera through Premier Elements 13 to Vimeo.  It was shot on the Oregon coast.  I didn't do any titles, transitions or adjustments so I could see the results of a "straight" procedure.  Apparently it is better than I thought, because it has about 500 views!  I can post a link if you want to watch it or download the original.

             

            What Sony camera do you have?  There are still only a few that do 4K.  The AX100 and AX33 seem to have happy customers.

             

            Bill

            • 3. Re: xavc-s settings?
              A.T. Romano Level 7

              Kodiak

               

              The following is some supplemental information related to Vimeo 4K side of things (dating January 3, 2015)

               

              4K Streaming is Finally Making Its Way to Vimeo (Kind Of)

               

              ATR

              • 4. Re: xavc-s settings?
                Kodiak244 Level 1

                First, let me thank you for answering my question.  My camera is a Sony a7II that captures xavc-s but only in 1080p.  I'm trying to document and preserve my children's childhood and post it for my geographically challenged family to see.   Up until now I've been using just smartphones to shoot and upload to my Vimeo Plus acct. I've decided to take it a step further and invest in equipment that will do the job better. I've just purchased a Laptop with enough power to churn out good video.  I7 Quad core, ample ram, Dedicated memory to video card, 512gb ssd, windows 8.1 64 bit, (which in my opinion is confusing as hell). Now i have to learn both camera and computer. That's the easy part, getting them to speak the same FLUENT language isn't easy for me.

                    As far as i can tell, a7ii captures video in three modes, MP4, ACHVD, And xavc-s.  The latter being the highest quality from what i've read.  After trying a few edidting programs i've decided on premiere elements 13.  Which supports xavc-s. Bitrate?  What is that?  I know the camera and computer can get the results i want, i just have to learn exactly what settings to use.   I just wish it were as easy as my iphone.  

                 

                Thanks,

                                Jeff

                • 5. Re: xavc-s settings?
                  Kodiak244 Level 1

                  First, let me thank you for answering my question.  My camera is a Sony a7II that captures xavc-s but only in 1080p.  I'm trying to document and preserve my children's childhood and post it for my geographically challenged family to see.   Up until now I've been using just smartphones to shoot and upload to my Vimeo Plus acct. I've decided to take it a step further and invest in equipment that will do the job better. I've just purchased a Laptop with enough power to churn out good video.  I7 Quad core, ample ram, Dedicated memory to video card, 512gb ssd, windows 8.1 64 bit, (which in my opinion is confusing as hell). Now i have to learn both camera and computer. That's the easy part, getting them to speak the same FLUENT language isn't easy for me.

                      As far as i can tell, a7ii captures video in three modes, MP4, ACHVD, And xavc-s.  The latter being the highest quality from what i've read.  After trying a few edidting programs i've decided on premiere elements 13.  Which supports xavc-s. Bitrate?  What is that?  I know the camera and computer can get the results i want, i just have to learn exactly what settings to use.   I just wish it were as easy as my iphone.  

                   

                  Thanks,

                                  Jeff

                  • 6. Re: xavc-s settings?
                    A.T. Romano Level 7

                    Jeff

                     

                    Based on what I have read, with your Sony a711, look at recording with the XAVC-S video codec, 1920 x 1080p60, bitrate 50 Mbps (megabits per second).

                    http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54222787

                    Make the comparison yourself between AVCHD 2.0 and XAVC-S. As you pointed out you have no recording for XAVC-S for 3840 x 2460.

                    Sony A711 user groups and reviews

                     

                    Assuming Premiere Elements 13/13.1 on Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 64 bit...

                    Project preset (either you manually or the project automatically)

                    NTSC

                    AVCHD

                    AVCHD 1080p60

                    If you (manually) or the project (automatically) has set the project preset, you should see the following in the workspace Edit Menu/Project Settings/General.

                    p60projectsettings.JPG

                     

                    For export

                    Publish+Share

                    Computer

                    XAVC-S

                    with Presets = MP4 - H.264 3840 x 2160 23.976p 30 Mbps

                    Under the Advanced Button/Video Tab of the preset, customize the preset for XAVC-S with .mp4 file extension 1920 x 1080 @ 59.94 progressives frames per second. See screenshot below...

                    XAVCS.JPG

                    Note that Premiere Elements 13/13.1 offers VBR for only 1 pass.

                    Until you are sure that Match Settings is working for you and while you are establishing your workflow,

                    please manually set the Video Tab settings yourself as shown in the screenshot.

                     

                    If you want to use the camera recordings with the AVCHD 2.0 codec, then please look at

                    Publish+Share

                    Computer

                    AVCHD

                    with Presets = MP4 H.264 1920 x 1080p30

                    and under the Advanced Button of the preset customize the preset for AVCHD with .mp4 file extension 1920 x 1080 @ 59.94 progressive frames per second.

                    See screenshot below.

                    AVCHD.JPG

                    From the Sony articles, it looks like AVCHD 2.0 file uses the bitrate of 28 Mbps rather than the 50 Mbps used for the XAVC-S file.

                    In this second screenshoot, I have the bitrate 32 Mbps Target/40 Mbps Maximum for the VBR, 1 pass.

                    If necessary, explore the compromise between bitrate, file size, and quality.

                     

                    Please explore and experiment and then, as your schedule permits, let us know what works best for you. If you have questions about

                    any of what I have written or need clarification, please do not hesitate to ask.

                     

                    Best wishes

                     

                    ATR

                     

                    Add On...You had asked about bitrate in general - just one reference for informational purposes for now

                    http://help.encoding.com/knowledge-base/article/understanding-bitrates-in-video-files/

                    • 7. Re: xavc-s settings?
                      whsprague Level 4

                      Jeff,

                       

                      Your new camera is on my "watch and wish" list.  Good choice.

                       

                      On a video equipment forum the discussion of XAVC-S development and use has been interesting to follow.  Basically, Sony and Panasonic partnered to develop AVCHD to go along with Blu-Ray specs.  It has served them well.  With demand for higher quality from by using higher bit rates to collect more "data" and a need for a 4K codec, Sony is now including XAVC-S as a "higher quality" choice.  (Note the "S" is for Sony).

                       

                      Apparantly, Adobe has bought rights to XAVC-S and put it in Premier Elements and created presets to use it for 4K.  There are no provided presets for XAVC-S in 1920x1080.  But, that's not a problem at all.

                       

                      ATR has provided the steps to making your own XAVC-S preset and I almost entirely agree with her suggestion.   My only difference is to suggest you use the "Advanced" and then the "Match Source" button.  So far, it has worked perfectly for me when I want my output to be as close to my input as possible.  ATR never responds to anything I suggest or ask, so I don't know why she does not suggest it.  And (oddly) here screen shot leaves the button out!  So, I've provide one so that you know what it looks like:

                      Capture.JPG

                       

                      Regarding the final upload to Vimeo, there may be no visible difference between using the lower bit rate and smaller file size of the AVCHD output.  If you have a fast internet connection, it may make no difference.  Nor is there anything I can find at Vimeo that provides a definite answer to how the the viewing quality will be affected.   No matter what you do, Vimeo transcodes what you send them to make them viewable in their streaming formats.  If it matters a lot, you may have to do some test clips with your camera, your software, your internet connection and your Vimeo account.

                       

                      Good luck!  If you don't mind and it is not an invasion of your privacy, I would enjoy seeing your Vimeo work.  There is a system here where you can privately send me a note with a Vimeo link.  I will send you one in return!

                       

                      On an edit, I have one more thought.  I have a similar computer in that I am using a SSD for my video projects.  SSD are always too small!  I've developed some personal work patterns to take advantage of the SSD speed and still be able to move projects to external storage in ways they can be brought back for future work.   Start a topic on "How to use an SSD" and I'll pass on what I think I've learned.

                       

                      Bill