16 Replies Latest reply on Apr 16, 2015 4:29 PM by trshaner

    Blacks have no detail--dead

    pintree3 Level 1

      Probably shouldn't be posting here but am hoping someone cold lead me as to a forum they trust where I could go to.

      I've had problems with my eyes, had surgery, long story. Anyhow, the point about my eyes is that they weren't good before but they are now.

      I am telling you this only so you could know that perhaps the problem also existed before but I could not notice it because of my eyes or the problem is new. And by before I mean before the recent re-installion of my OS and all the needed updated drivers to my video card.

      And the problem is this I get no details in my blacks. They do not go from no detail to eventually, gradually detail as the blacks become less black they are just detail-less black or not--one could see an actual outline where the black ends.

      I say that perhaps this is not the appropriate forum because the problem is not apparent when viewing images in Photoshop but only on Movies and video games. I have tried different Video players (VLC, GOM, Pot Player, Windows Media Player etc).

      All drivers to my video card are updated.

      So I am wondering if it is my monitor, or what? I have and use a Syder4 to calibrate my  monitor and perhaps I should re-use it and recalibrate before I ask this question.

      Anyhow, any opinion on the possible reasons for my dead blacks would be appreciated.

      Thank you

        • 1. Re: Blacks have no detail--dead
          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          If this is only happening when playing videos it is most likely due to your video driver settings. Try adjusting the video setting for 'Dynamic Range'  to 0-255 and not 16-235 or some other limited range. If you don't know how to do this please provide details on the OS version, system type/model, and graphics card model.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Blacks have no detail--dead
            pintree3 Level 1

            My OS : Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit

            My video card:RADEON HD 7850 - XFX DD

            Monitor: ViewSonic VX2453

            The card is controlled via the AMD Catalyst Control Center

            Everything there is set at its highest: Withing the Control Center, what you mentioned did have the 2 choices like you said BUT the box was not checked (either for one or the other) and I did so and I did see a ever so slight improvement.

            Also, where this is, "Color Settings" it is set to choose the Video Player settings and not the VGA settings and I'm wondering if this should be checked at.

            And, If I go to Control Panel -> ........->Screen Resolution ->Advanced Settings, under 'Color Management' and look at my profiles the is a huge amount of different profiles. Since I never did anything there before I assume these were done/set up via Photoshop and my Spyder4

            • 3. Re: Blacks have no detail--dead
              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              I notice the Viewsonic VX2453 has 2xHDMI and VGA inputs. If using HDMI scroll down almost to the bottom of this article and read  the section, First solution: use a DVI to HDMI cable

               

              https://pcmonitors.info/articles/correcting-hdmi-colour-on-nvidia-and-amd-gpus/

               

              The setup differs for HDMI to HDMI versus DVI to HDMI.

               

              Needless to say your Spyder 4 monitor calibration will affect both video and still images. The video settings will only affect viewing of videos. You can also search and/or post this issue here since it is a video issue:

               

              AMD Support and Game Forums - Desktop Catalyst Drivers and Software

              • 4. Re: Blacks have no detail--dead
                pintree3 Level 1

                I've done all that the website suggests (with the exception of the DVI-HDMI cable since I am using HDMI to HDMI) and I see no change. I will however take your suggestion in regards to the AMD support forums.

                . There is a question which still holds though. Without doing anything (as I have done now) the problem did not exist before therefore I would have to assume is that either -a- newer drivers actually screwed things up, or, -b- my monitor is losing its pizzaz (which it only being 3 years old I would hope not), or, -c- my newer and supposedly better video card is the problem (though I think I had not noticed this in the beginning when I first got this card).

                thank you

                • 5. Re: Blacks have no detail--dead
                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  You say this only happens with videos, but what about LR and images in your Web browser? What settings are you using with the Spyder4 for Luminance, Gamma and White Point? Also make sure the Spyder4 Preferences are set for 'Matrix' and 'ICC v2'.

                   

                  Go to this page:

                   

                  http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

                   

                  Tell me the lowest level patch that stands out in the Black Level test? Next download the ZIP file here to a folder on your hard drive.

                   

                  http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/lagom-lcd-test.zip

                   

                  Extract the files and import the folder named 'img' into LR. Following the instructions at the Lagom website tell me the results for the Gamma Calibration, Black Level, and White Saturation test images as viewed in the LR Library module.

                  • 6. Re: Blacks have no detail--dead
                    pintree3 Level 1

                    Wow, thanks for your continuing help .

                    In your 1st link I could see all blacks. As to LR (Assuming you mean LIghtroom) I don't have it. I have Photoshop.

                    And yes I see blacks better there then on videos but still, not as I recall them to be.

                    As to my Spyder4 I'm wondering if you are confusing it with other products since when you ask, "What settings are you using with the Spyder4 for Luminance, Gamma and White Point?" I have no such choice. And when you say, "make sure the Spyder4 Preferences are set for 'Matrix' and 'ICC v2'"  Again I have no such choice.

                    • 7. Re: Blacks have no detail--dead
                      D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      If this is a Spyder 4 Express there is no luminance setting IIRC. I think you're just asked to set a "comfortable" brightness level. Of course this defeats a large part of the purpose of display calibration (simple can be too simple), but that's how it is.

                       

                      But you have to set a white point temperature and gamma, if you don't the software uses default values.

                       

                      I find it hard to believe that the Viewsonic separates all blacks down to 1 in the Lagom test, unless the monitor is at full blazing brightness. Even on my Eizo CG246 I need optimal conditions to see all the way down. The question isn't whether you see them, but whether you can distinguish them against the black background.

                       

                      This could be another case of a bogus monitor profile coming through Windows Update. That shouldn't override the Spyder profile, but who knows. Recalibrating would fix that. It could also be that the Spyder profile is corrupted.

                       

                      Oh, and this is the Lightroom forum. The Photoshop forum is >here<

                      • 8. Re: Blacks have no detail--dead
                        trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        pintree3 wrote:

                        In your 1st link I could see all blacks.

                        You can clearly distinguish the Patch labeled 1 from the Black background, which is the top-most patch on the left below? As D Fosse mentioned only a properly calibrated high-end monitor will properly display down to patch #1. Since the Spyder4 doesn't have a user Luminance setting you most likely have the monitor's Brightness control set too high, or your Spyder4 calibration profile was hijacked by a Windows Update. Please scroll down..

                         

                         

                        Look at the White Saturation pattern at Lagom and in the downloaded folder (img) 'whitetest.png' from inside Photoshop. Tell us the highest patch level you can distinguish. Here's mine:

                         

                        Next go to Windows 7 Control Panel> Color Management and select your display in the 'Device' list. Tell us the name of the profile assigned and if it appears to be your most recent Spyder4 calibration profile. The one assigned has the word (default) at the end of its name. Here's mine:

                         

                        • 9. Re: Blacks have no detail--dead
                          pintree3 Level 1

                          blacktest.png

                          Photoshop:  1 very hard to see, had to look very carefully (my sister had problems seeing it)

                          XnView: Could not see 1, 2, 3 seemed equal

                          Web Browser, Cyberfox:  Better than both above

                          whitest png.

                          Photoshop: Could not see anything on 254, could see all the rest

                          XnView: Same as Photoshop

                          Web Browser, Cyberfox:  Better than both above, Can see some detail on the top of 254 but lose all about 1/2 down

                           

                          colorbands.png

                          Photoshop:  Can see difference on all colors from 1 to 32  (Blue 1 to 2 being hardly noticeable, had to look carefully)

                          XnView: Same as Photoshop

                          gradient-h.png

                          Photoshop: Can see difference clearly from Black to white and wite to black

                          XnView: Same as Photoshop

                           

                          Color Management ICC Profiles: There were 2 listed. The SpyderExpress (default) and below it was the one with my Monitor's name. The file name is SpyderExpress.icm

                          The above is under the Devices tab. If I click on the ''All Profiles'' tab  there is an endless list of profiles with extensions such as, 'cdmp, .camp, .gmmp, with most having .icc,  .icm,

                           

                          Under the Advanced tab

                          Windows COlor System Defaults

                          Device Profile: System Default (SRGB IEC61966.2.1)

                          Viewing Conditions profile: System Default (WCS for sRGB viewing conditions)

                           

                          ICC Rendering Intent to WCS Gamut Mapping

                          Default rendering intent: ,Perceptual (photo images):,Relative Colorimetric (line art) ,Absolute Colorimetric (simulate paper) ,Business Graphics (charts and graphs)

                          Were all Default

                          • 10. Re: Blacks have no detail--dead
                            pintree3 Level 1

                            D Fosse 

                            My Monitor is set at  68% Contrast and 75% Brightness.   Spyder4's suggestions regarding this while calibrating are either not doable on my monitor or don't make sense (They suggest 100%)

                            You say "The question isn't whether you see them, but whether you can distinguish them against the black background."  Not sure I understand: If not for the background then how would you see them? And as mentioned above, though extremely faint, yes, I do see it. If I look at that area for a second, no I can't see it. But if I wait then it appears. Viewing the blacks and whites through my Browser seemed best

                            • 11. Re: Blacks have no detail--dead
                              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              pintree3 wrote:

                               

                              blacktest.png

                              Photoshop:  1 very hard to see, had to look very carefully (my sister had problems seeing it)

                              XnView: Could not see 1, 2, 3 seemed equal

                              Web Browser, Cyberfox:  Better than both above

                              whitest png.

                              Photoshop: Could not see anything on 254, could see all the rest

                              XnView: Same as Photoshop

                              Web Browser, Cyberfox:  Better than both above, Can see some detail on the top of 254 but lose all about 1/2 down

                               

                              Other than the last sentence above ("lose all about 1/2 down") everything looks good. So you're color manged still apps (LR, PS, etc) appear to be displaying normally. This point us back to video player issues and the graphics card video mode settings. One last thing to try is to import some video files in LR and see if they have the same compressed Blacks on playback.

                               

                              At this point I suggest searching and/or post this issue at the AMD Support Forum below. If a solution is found please post it back here as well.

                               

                              AMD Support and Game Forums - Desktop Catalyst Drivers and Software

                              • 12. Re: Blacks have no detail--dead
                                pintree3 Level 1

                                trshaner I did post on the AMD forums and no reply. I will see if I can find a way to politely remind readers for their help.

                                Also, you wrote, ''to import some video files in LR" Just to remind you I do not have Lightroom (I've tried their trial on a few occasions and still can not find a use for it--at least not one to justify it's cost--seeing that Photoshop and Bridge do quite fine )

                                 

                                [Side note: I am wondering why I am never told when a comment here is being made having to discover it myself, by luck like I have done now-hence my late replies. It seems to be happening to this thread only}

                                • 13. Re: Blacks have no detail--dead
                                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  Sorry forgot this is a PS playback issue. As D Fosse suggested, "Oh, and this is the Lightroom forum. The Photoshop forum is >here<"


                                  Posting the issue in the Photoshop forum with a link back to this thread may help to find a solution. From everything presented so far it appears to be an HDMI graphics driver settings issue.

                                   

                                  The quickest way to prove/disprove this is to try another external monitor with a DVI input and connect your laptop using a DVI to DVI cable (preferred). If your laptop doesn't have a DVI connector use an HDMI to DVI cable. Just keep in mind an HDMI to DVI cable is single-link and will only support up to 1920 x1080 resolution at 60Hz.

                                  • 14. Re: Blacks have no detail--dead
                                    trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Sorry I forgot to answer this:

                                    Michael Campa wrote:

                                    [Side note: I am wondering why I am never told when a comment here is being made having to discover it myself, by luck like I have done now-hence my late replies. It seems to be happening to this thread only}

                                    In the upper right-hand corner of this page click on 'Follow.' It should have been checked by default unless you changed your user Preferences settings.

                                     

                                    • 15. Re: Blacks have no detail--dead
                                      pintree3 Level 1

                                      trshaner: I never placed this question in the lightroom forum: I think it was transferred here somehow. I will post it in PS and figure out a way to link it here (I guess just the URL would do).  As to testing it with another monitor, you referred to a laptop. I would like to connect my PC monitor to my laptop and look at things through its monitor since I have no other monitor except my TVs however my video card has only one HDMI port, 2 DVI ports and no VGA port while my laptop has HDMI, VGA and no DVI and I don't feel like buying a DVI/HDMI cable just to test this out. My remaining option is to go from HDMI (PC) to HDMI (laptop) directly except I sort of no a little (and only a little) on how to connect the 2 and this usually requires both monitors to be on and not just one.

                                      (As to the "Following" I am following, as I said all other stuff gets me told except this one.)

                                      • 16. Re: Blacks have no detail--dead
                                        trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Sorry for any confusion. Not sure how your post landed here if you entered it on the PS forum site. Normally Adobe staff leaves a reply in the post, such as "Moving to Lightroom forum."

                                         

                                        You should be able to get the HDMI to HDMI connection working properly with the right graphics control panel and monitor calibration settings. No need to experiment with a DVI to HDMI cable. Below is the link to this post. Just copy and paste it into the post in the PS forum. I suggest also posting the PS post URL link back here in case someone else has the same problem. Good luck!

                                         

                                        Blacks have no detail--dead