6 Replies Latest reply on Apr 14, 2015 1:20 PM by Display:10

    Why do Sony DSC-RX100M3 raw files look strange in PE9 when flash has been used in the shot?

    Display:10 Level 1

      I have just bought a Sony DSC-RX100M3 camera and use it to shoot raw + jpeg.  I want to use the raw files in my Photoshop Elements 9, which has the Camera Raw plug-in version 6.5.0.216 installed. I have downloaded the Adobe DNG converter version 8.7.1.311 so I can import my Sony raw files into PE 9 as they cannot be used directly. Most of the time these raw files look OK, but when I use the flash on my camera and then look at the raw files in PE9 they look far more pink than the corresponding jpeg files. The jpeg files look more or less as I remember the scene when I shot the picture.

       

      When I look at the same raw and jpeg files in Sony's own Image Data Converter software (version 4.2.04.17270) the raw and jpeg files look very similar to one another, and there is no pink colour cast in the raw file.

       

      What am I doing wrong in Photoshop Elements? I though the DNG converter keeps all the information from the original raw file and makes no changes to it, so why does the raw file look so different when flash has been used?

       

      Thanks for any help you can give!

       

      AVM

        • 1. Re: Why do Sony DSC-RX100M3 raw files look strange in PE9 when flash has been used in the shot?
          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          First can you show us a screenshot of what you’re seeing, and then, if you don’t mind sharing one of your photos, upload the raw and jpg to http://www.dropbox.com/ and post a public share link, here.

           

          To answer some of your other questions, the Sony software knows what the camera is doing and does the same thing so the raw and jpg would look very similar using the Sony software.

           

          The DNG Converter does preserve all the raw data, but Adobe doesn't know what Sony does with the raw data and does its own thing, which will undoubtedly look different in some way--that's the point of shooting raw, so you can go beyond what the camera is doing.

           

          Now pink in the highlights only can be a white-point specification problem that has occurred in a couple cameras over the past few years that I am aware of.  A pink cast over the entire photo could be a difference in white-balance interpretation between Adobe and Sony or it could be a bug.  Seeing a screenshot and having the actual photos to experiment with would help in determining what is wrong if anything.

          • 2. Re: Why do Sony DSC-RX100M3 raw files look strange in PE9 when flash has been used in the shot?
            Display:10 Level 1

            Thank very much for your prompt reply to my questions. I want to use the raw (DNG) files to process my pictures, but had assumed that PE9 would make a very good first stab at them, using the camera data embedded in the original Sony raw (ARW) file.

             

            Below is a screenshot of the files displayed side by side in the PE9 editor window. The raw (DNG) file on the left shows the colour cast, while the jpg on the right shows the colour of the table cloth and vanilla ice cream as I remember it. The cast seems to be everywhere; not just in the highlights.

             

            As requested, I have uploaded the relevant files so you can examine them in detail. Here are the links:

             

            Sony ARW raw file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7le2td3ool24kvv/DSC00475.ARW?dl=0

            Sony JPG file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0ozqi49u33ksff/DSC00475.JPG?dl=0

            Adobe DNG file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mlcynqxibw4m6q5/DSC00475.DNG?dl=0

             

            I look forward to hearing your verdict. Many thanks,

             

            AVM

             

            DNGvsJPEG.PNG

            • 3. Re: Why do Sony DSC-RX100M3 raw files look strange in PE9 when flash has been used in the shot?
              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              I interpret the differences you're seeing as the difference between the Adobe Standard camera profile and what Sony is doing with the colors.

               

              I can get things to look more like what you're seeing in the camera jpgs by merely changing the camera profile from Adobe Standard to Camera Neutral over in the Camera Calibration tab.  I don't remember if PSE9/ACR6 has those camera-simulation profiles available or if you only has Adobe Standard.  If you have those others, then switch to using one of them.

               

              Here is what the image looks like in the latest Camera Raw 8.7.1 plug-in for PSE13 after choosing the Camera Neutral profile which looks more green like the JPG and less magenta:

               

              I think part of your issue is that you have mixed lighting where the bluer flash lighting is mixing in with some slightly warmer (incandescent) or greener (fluorescent) color so the right side is warmer than the left side.  Aside from the color differences, there is also a shadow in the foreground, perhaps caused by your lens shade that should have been removed or your lens is too long for using a flash that close or something.

              • 4. Re: Why do Sony DSC-RX100M3 raw files look strange in PE9 when flash has been used in the shot?
                Display:10 Level 1

                I can see that this simple change of camera profile from Adobe to standard does the trick in PSE13! In PSE9 the camera calibration tab looks different. It has no "Process" drop-down menu, but I can set the camera profile to "Camera Neutral" and the picture changes, but not by very much. It looks like the latest Camera Raw plug-in is a big improvement over the one used in PE9. Is this plug-in also used by PE13, and not just PSE13? If so, I will definitely upgrade and buy PE13.

                 

                As for the shadow, I had not noticed it yet: I was rather preoccupied by the colour cast! The on-camera flash is right above the lens so it is a plausible explanation. This is the first time I've used it (I bought the camera a few weeks ago). I'll experiment with using the flash at some greater distances and see if that gets rid of the shadow. When you say that the shade should have been removed, do you mean by me in Photoshop? I'm afraid I haven't advanced to that stage yet, but if I know it's possible I'll read up on it and see how it's done...

                 

                Thanks very much for the trouble you've taken in helping me with this problem; it is much appreciated!

                 

                AVM

                • 5. Re: Why do Sony DSC-RX100M3 raw files look strange in PE9 when flash has been used in the shot?
                  ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Looking at the pictures of the camera online, I'd say there is no lens shade--a device to keep light from the sides from causing lens flare--and the camera lens, itself, was just too far extended and there was a lens shadow.  You probably can't use the flash that close up and should back off and zoom in further.  Experimenting would give you a sense of what situations will have a shadow of the lens or not.

                   

                  Your ACR plug-in is old enough not use have Process Version 2012, yet, only 2010 and 2003 so Adobe didn't have the idea to put the selector down next to the camera profile. The toning options are better with Process 2012 so that would be a reason to upgrade, but I am not sure that the Camera Neutral profile in PSE9 would be different than PSE13.  If Adobe changed the camera profiles then people's pictures would look different once they upgraded to a new version and that's not something that's supposed to happen.

                   

                  You can certainly download the PSE13 trial and see if things look any different, but they may not:  Download a free trial or buy Adobe products | Adobe downloads   There would be newer minimum OS version requirements for the newer versions of Adobe software so check those out before trying to install, unless you're on Windows 7+ or OSX 10.8+ then it should be fine.

                   

                  One more thing, the White-Balance tint is set to +10 by the camera:

                   

                  This As Shot WB is more magenta and even when using the Adobe Standard profile, moving the Tint down to +0 makes things a little more green like your camera JPG.  So there is more than just changing the camera profile that you can do:

                  • 6. Re: Why do Sony DSC-RX100M3 raw files look strange in PE9 when flash has been used in the shot?
                    Display:10 Level 1

                    You're right, there is no shade attached to the (fixed) lens on the DSC-RX100MK3, and I will need to be more careful in future when I take pictures!

                     

                    I appreciate your comment that the Camera Neutral profile needs to remain the same from one version to the next so photos will look the same if the same profile is applied. I managed to get the correct colours by applying both Camera Neutral and Tint=0 in PSE9. Still, I've taken the plunge and bought PSE13; there is currently an offer on and I had been thinking about upgrading anyway. I can now use my Sony raw files without the need to convert to DNG first. My hardware is up to it and, as you predicted, using the same Camera Neutral and Tint=0 settings in PSE13 gives the same picture with the right colours so I'm very happy with the result. Plus, I now have quite a few additional features that I look forward to using!

                     

                    I would like to thank you again for all the time you've taken answering my question and much more besides. I have learnt a lot from your comments; it would have taken me a lot longer to discover this all by myself!