23 Replies Latest reply on Apr 30, 2015 8:33 PM by Scitech

    Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film

    Scitech Level 1

      I have a Progressive Scan HD Dual-8 telecine machine that I use to capture the film to an AVI file. After capturing the film I use a program to change the frame rate to 16 FPS for regular 8 and 18 FPS for super 8.  The AVI file isn't the same aspect ration as 16:9 HDTV, because the film frame is 4:3 shape.

      I'm trying to decide on which preset to use.  I have been using the Hard Disk Standard 48kHz since it has the 4:3 aspect ratio.

      However, I would like to fill the entire frame when watching on a TV.  Is there another preset that would work without distorting the image or affecting the resolution?

      My final project will be rendering it out to a DVD.

      I'm currently using Adobe Premiere Elements 11 as my editing software.

      Any suggestions are welcomed.

        • 1. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          If you want to fill a 16:9 video frame, you should choose a widescreen project setting -- but then you'll have to manually scale your video to fill the frame, which will mean you'll lose the top and bottom of your video.

           

          But if that's what you want, that's how you do it.

          • 2. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
            A.T. Romano Level 7

            scitech

             

            My suggestion would be to stay with what you are doing, that is, processing a 4:3 source in a 4:3 project. And, then I would let the player settings do the rest when viewing the end product.

             

            What out for text cut offs in this maneuvering.

             

            Depending on the Premiere Elements content and artistic plan, you could experiment with 4:3 source imported into a 16:9 project (with default scale to frame size disabled in preferences) and then set up to go with black borders, fill ins for black borders, or picture in picture frame (in this case video in video frame).

             

            ATR

            • 3. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
              Scitech Level 1

              ATR,

               

              That was helpful.

               

              Did some experimenting, and I also tried this.

              I applied "Interpret Footage" and change the Pixel Aspect Ratio to "D1/DV

              NTSC Widescreen 16:9 (1.2121).

               

              Would this work as a solution or is it going to give me some problems in

              final output?

               

               

              www.savethosephotos.com <http://www.savethosephotos.com>

               

              On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 9:48 AM, A.T. Romano <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

              • 4. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                A.T. Romano Level 7

                scitech

                 

                Thanks for the follow up.

                 

                What is your source 720 x 480 @ 29.97 interlaced frames per second (pixel aspect ratio = 0.9091) or 640 x 480 @ 29.97 progressive frames per second (pixel aspect ratio = 1.0)?

                 

                For 720 x 480

                 

                Premiere Elements NTSC DV Widescreen project, I see horizontal stretching when you apply the Interpret Footage to change the Pixel Aspect Ratio to 1.2121.

                Before Interpret Footage

                BeforeIF.JPG

                After Interpret Footage

                AfterIF.JPG

                After Interpret Footage and Timeline Export to Publish+Share/Computer/AVI with Presets = DV NTSC Widescreen

                 

                avexport.JPG

                Please give this a mini test run with your specific footage to see what that looks like.

                 

                Thanks.

                 

                ATR

                • 5. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                  Scitech Level 1

                  ATR,

                   

                  I just ran some footage from the Telecine machine. It is a Progressive Scan

                  High Definition machine. It outputs an avi file.

                   

                  Here are the details:

                   

                   

                   

                  Thanks for all of your help.

                   

                  scitech

                   

                   

                  www.savethosephotos.com <http://www.savethosephotos.com>

                   

                  On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 12:21 PM, A.T. Romano <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

                  • 6. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                    A.T. Romano Level 7

                    scitech

                     

                    Thanks for the reply. Somehow the details did not post.

                     

                    When you get a chance, could you try again.

                     

                    ATR

                    • 7. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                      Scitech Level 1

                      I took a screen shot of the properties of the avi file.

                      Here they are again.

                       

                      Frame width: 1280

                      Frame height: 960

                      Data rate: 36137kbps

                      Total bitrate: 36137kbps

                      Frame rate: 22 frames/second

                       

                      The telecine uses progressive Scan and HD.

                       

                      Thanks,

                      Dennis

                       

                      www.savethosephotos.com <http://www.savethosephotos.com>

                       

                      On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 1:36 PM, A.T. Romano <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

                      • 8. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                        Scitech Level 1

                        ATR.

                         

                        I looked at the properties through Premiere instead of right clicking on

                        the file and choosing properties.

                        The pixel aspect ration is 1.0

                        Frame Rate: 22.40  (I will need to change this to 18.0 for super 8 film)

                         

                        scitech

                         

                         

                         

                        www.savethosephotos.com <http://www.savethosephotos.com>

                         

                        On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 1:36 PM, A.T. Romano <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

                        • 9. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                          A.T. Romano Level 7

                          scitech

                           

                          Thanks for the additional details.

                           

                          You are starting out with square pixels for your 1280 x 960 (4:3) and I am not seeing how Interpret Footage's widescreen pixel aspect ratio is going to help you in this. It is likely that you will run into horizontally stretched video issues.

                           

                          Right now, consider

                          a. Import with project preset

                          NTSC

                          FLIP

                          Flip MIno and Ultra 29.97p

                           

                          With or without Default Scale to Frame Size enabled (Edit Menu/Preferences/General or right click of file and selection of Scale to Frame Size), click on monitor to bring up bounding box with handles around monitor image. Drag on right bottom handle to scale the image just to fill the monitor space.

                           

                          Export as 1280 x 720 16:9 using Publish+Share/Computer/AVCHD or other. We can talk about other. The end results should not have distortion, maybe a bit zoomed in, but good. You can customize the export settings under the Advanced Button/Video Tab, Audio Tab, and, if applicable, Multiplexer Tab) for frame rate and other.

                           

                          Please update us on your progress.

                           

                          ATR

                          • 10. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                            Scitech Level 1

                            ATR,

                             

                            You have been VERY helpful.  I will update you on my progress.

                            Thanks for sharing your expertise.  It is appreciated.

                             

                            scitech.

                             

                            www.savethosephotos.com <http://www.savethosephotos.com>

                             

                            On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 4:39 PM, A.T. Romano <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

                            • 11. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                              Scitech Level 1

                              ATR

                               

                              Thanks for your advise again.   I setup the project with your suggested

                              settings.

                               

                              NTSC

                               

                              FLIP

                               

                              Flip MIno and Ultra 29.97p

                               

                              However, I don't see 1280 x 720 16:9 as an option for exporting.

                              Specifically, I don't see the 16:9 option listed.  Is this assumed?

                               

                              I'm currently using Premiere Elements 11.

                               

                              Dennis

                               

                               

                              www.savethosephotos.com <http://www.savethosephotos.com>

                               

                              On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 4:39 PM, A.T. Romano <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

                              • 12. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                                Scitech Level 1

                                ATR

                                 

                                Running some tests with your suggested settings.  One detail I should add

                                might be important.

                                 

                                When the telecine machine captures the video, it includes framelines,

                                portions of adjacent film frames, and excess width including sprocket holes

                                if visible. Therefore I have to crop the image.  I'm guessing this may mean

                                I'm scaling the image more than you had anticipated to fill the monitor.

                                 

                                Scitech

                                 

                                www.savethosephotos.com <http://www.savethosephotos.com>

                                 

                                On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 4:39 PM, A.T. Romano <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

                                • 13. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                                  A.T. Romano Level 7

                                  scitech

                                   

                                  You can export your 1280 x 960 which you have scaled to fit the 1280 x 720 Edit area monitor space that you created by setting the project preset to that 1280 x 720 set.

                                   

                                  Some examples of export settings...

                                   

                                  For AVCHD.mp4

                                  Publish+Share

                                  Computer

                                  AVCHD

                                  with Presets = MP4 - HD720p24....then under the Advanced Button/Video Tab, you customize the MP4 - HD720p24 to MP4 - HD720p29.97

                                   

                                  MPEG4.JPG

                                   

                                  For MPEG2.mpg

                                  Publish+Share

                                  Computer

                                  MPEG

                                  with Presets = HDTV 720p29.97 High Quality

                                   

                                  If the choice has an Advanced Button, you will have lot of opportunities to customize the default preset set by Adobe.

                                  Most of the time those presets are optimized, but there are times when you need to customize the preset for your purposes.

                                   

                                  As for the cropping, as long as your image is scaled to fill the 1280 x 720 16:9 space in the Edit area monitor, you should be OK provided

                                  you did not have to scale resulting in an extreme zoomed in look. There is also a Zoom option in fx Effects/Transform/Crop feature - See

                                  Applied Effects Tab/Applied Effects Palette/Crop Panel expanded after you have dragged the Crop into your Timeline file.

                                   

                                  Please consider. Any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

                                   

                                  Thank you.

                                   

                                  ATR

                                  • 14. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                                    Scitech Level 1

                                    AT

                                    Thank you for all of your help. I appreciate your detailed suggestions and

                                    quick responses.  I will give this a try.

                                    Scitech

                                    • 15. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                                      Scitech Level 1

                                      ATR,

                                      I have been busy with my other jobs, so just now had time to try your suggustion.  It worked great.  I tried:

                                       

                                      a. Import with project

                                      NTSC
                                      FLIP

                                      Flip Mino and Ultra 29.97p

                                       

                                      With or without Default .......

                                       

                                      Then you suggusted to Export as 1280 x 720 16.9 using Publish+Share/Computer/AVCHD or other.  We can talk about other. The end results should not have distortion, maybe a bit zoomed in, but good.  You can customize the export settings under the Advanced Button/Video Tab, Audio Tab, and if applicable, Multiplexer Tab) for frame rate and other.

                                       

                                      This produced a .m2t file. 

                                      My question is how do I burn this to a DVD with the same 16.9 format?

                                      When using Publish+Share - I usually choose Disc (Burn DVD, Blu-ray and AVCHD discs?

                                       

                                      Thanks again for all of your great help.

                                      Scitech

                                      • 16. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                                        A.T. Romano Level 7

                                        Scitech

                                         

                                        Thanks for the follow up.

                                         

                                        Premiere Elements 11

                                         

                                        If you have a 1280 x 720 16:9 @ 29.97 progressive frames per second as a .m2t file, then your burn to disc opportunities will not necessarily reflect that resolution but can be 16:9 aspect ratio.

                                         

                                        1. Publish+Share/Disc/DVD disc with the preset = NTSC_Widescreen_DVD Dolby.

                                        That will give you your content in DVD-VIDEO format @ 29.97 interlaced frames per second. The resolution is not going to be 1280 x 720 16:9 but rather 720 x 480 which is stretched by a 16:9 flag to about 856 x 480 16:9 for display after encoding.

                                         

                                        2. Publish+Share/Disc/AVCHD with the preset = H.264 1920 x 1080i NTSC Dolby. That will give you your content in AVCHD format on DVD disc. The resolution will be 1920 x 1080 16:9 instead of 1280 x 720 16:9, but you have 16:9.  And, the frame rate will be 29.97 interlaced frames per second and not 29.97 progressive frames per second. The AVCHD on DVD disc needs a blu-ray player or one of the multi format players that supports AVCHD DVD.

                                         

                                        3. Publish+Share/Disc/Blu-ray with the preset = H.264 1920 x 1080iNTSC Dolby. That will give you your content in Blu-ray disc format on Blu-ray disc. The resolution will 1920 x 1080 16:9 instead of 1280 x 720 16:9, but you have 16:9. And, the frame rate will be 29.97 interlaced frames per second and not 29.97 progressive frames per second. The Blu-ray disc format on Blu-ray disc needs a blu-ray player.

                                         

                                        Depending on your player and video viewing goals....

                                         

                                        Consider placing a file on a memory card or USB Flash Drive and then inserting the memory card or USB Flash Drive into the player that is going to support your particular file format on a memory card or USB Flash Drive. In Premiere Elements, you should be able to export the Timeline directly to the USB Flash Drive inserted into a computer USB port. See Save In location in the Publish+Share/Computer/..... export settings.

                                         

                                        Just a note about 1920 x 1080 16:9 versus 1440 x 1080 HD anamorphic 16:9.....use the 1920 x 1080 16:9 instead. Both will give a final display of 1920 x 1080 16:9, but the 1440 x 1080 one depends on a 16:9 flag to stretch the 1440 x 1080 to 1920 x 1080 for display after encoding. Players can have problems recognizing the 16:9 flag.

                                         

                                        Please review and consider. We can go over any of the above the needs clarification.

                                         

                                        Thanks.

                                         

                                        ATR

                                        • 17. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                                          Scitech Level 1

                                          ATR,

                                           

                                          I'm currently in a science workshop, so I don't have much time to look over this in detail.

                                          However, the bottom line for me, is that I need to produce the final project to play on a standard DVD player, since I do not know if my customers own a Blu-Ray player.

                                          I'm assuming that most consumers today tend to have TVs with a 16:9 display.

                                           

                                          I will get back to you with more later.  Hopefully this makes since.

                                           

                                          Scitech

                                           

                                           

                                          Sent from my iPad

                                          • 18. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                                            A.T. Romano Level 7

                                            Scitech

                                             

                                            Thanks for the update.

                                             

                                            It looks like your product is going to be DVD-VIDEO Widescreen on DVD disc.

                                             

                                            Would it be to any advantage to survey your clients to determine what the majority player would be for your disc products?

                                             

                                            ATR

                                            • 19. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                                              Scitech Level 1

                                              ATR,

                                               

                                              Most of my clients who would like Regular 8mm and Super 8mm digitized to DVD will be in the age range of 60+.  Therefore, they are slower to adapt to the newest technology.  The most likely will still have VHS/DVD machines and are likely to share the DVD with friends who are also in the same age range.  o, it is safer to go with the lower end technology to ensure satisfied customers.

                                              You mention going with DVD-Video Widescreen on DVD.

                                              So does this mean I still use the settings you suggested earlier (Flip etc ....) render the file and then render again with the DVD-Video Widescreen you suggested?

                                               

                                              Scitech

                                              Sent from my iPad

                                              • 20. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                                                A.T. Romano Level 7

                                                Scitech

                                                 

                                                Thanks for the follow up.

                                                 

                                                If those FLIP settings are matching the properties of your Timeline source, then use the set up with FLIP project preset described.

                                                When it comes to burn to...then Publish+Share/Disc/DVD with preset = NTSC_Widescreen_Dolby DVD.

                                                 

                                                There is no DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc for 1280 x 720p29.97. So, your end product display is going to be about 856 x 480 after the 16:9 is recognized by the DVD player and stretches the video to 856 x 480 16:9. (Note: Both NTSC DVD-VIDEO standard 4:3 and NTSC DVD-VIDEO widescreen 16:9 have the same frame size (720 x 480); it is that 16:9 flag for the widescreen that is responsible for the stretched display (856 x 480 16:9).

                                                 

                                                Most of the TV DVD players do come with adjusts for 4:3 and 16:9. Those that still have 4:3 only, you need to think about.

                                                 

                                                Reminder: with that 1280 x 720 (16:9) p29.97 on the Timeline of a 1280 x 720 (16:9) p29.97 project, you can export that Timeline again to another type of 16:9 export once the previous export finishes.

                                                 

                                                The mini test run before the grand project is important.

                                                 

                                                Are you OK with the above?

                                                 

                                                ATR

                                                • 21. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                                                  Scitech Level 1

                                                  ATR,

                                                   

                                                  I guess my question is, when the DVD player stretches the video will the

                                                  image be distorted?  If so, I may be better off having the image on the

                                                  screen pillarboxed.

                                                   

                                                  Thanks for all of your explanations.  You are educating this middle school

                                                  science teacher.

                                                   

                                                  Scitech

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  by the DVD player and stretches the video to 856 x 480 16:9. (Note: Both

                                                  NTSC DVD-VIDEO standard 4:3 and NTSC DVD-VIDEO widescreen 16:9 have the

                                                  same frame size (720 x 480); it is that 16:9 flag for the widescreen that

                                                  is responsible for the stretched display (856 x 480 16:9).

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Most of the TV DVD players do come with adjusts for 4:3 and 16:9. Those

                                                  that still have 4:3 only, you need to think about.

                                                   

                                                  www.savethosephotos.com <http://www.savethosephotos.com>

                                                   

                                                  On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:53 PM, A.T. Romano <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

                                                  • 22. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                                                    A.T. Romano Level 7

                                                    Scitech

                                                     

                                                    You should do alright going 1280 x 720 16:9 to 740 x 480 Widescreen. Please give it a try to prove it to yourself for wanted quality as well as aspect ratio.

                                                     

                                                    ATR

                                                    • 23. Re: Need advice for post production of regular and super 8mm film
                                                      Scitech Level 1

                                                      ATR,

                                                       

                                                      Will do, I will give it a try this weekend.  Thanks again for all of your

                                                      help.

                                                       

                                                      Scitech

                                                       

                                                      www.savethosephotos.com <http://www.savethosephotos.com>

                                                       

                                                      On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 8:31 PM, A.T. Romano <forums_noreply@adobe.com>