11 Replies Latest reply on Apr 23, 2015 7:28 AM by Bill Gehrke

    5960X vs 5930K for AVCHD editing? Workstation build help request

    FuelMe Level 1

      Hi guys, getting ready to have a new custom system built (probably iBuyPower, not sure yet). I would love your input on choosing the ideal processor. I have read benchmarks and forums on both the Intel 5960X and the 5930K. Most benchmarks are only concerned about encoding times, not the actual editing and color correction processes. I realize that encoding (exporting) would be generally faster on the 8-core 5960 compared to the 6-core 5930. HOWEVER, all my source material is AVCHD and for that, higher clock speed does make a big difference during the actual editing. So let's forget about encoding/exporting right now and ONLY think about the actual editing. Let's also assume I will not overclock, or if I do then never more than 20%.* I 'm not a gamer and this workstation is ONLY for editing. I use Premiere Pro CC 2014.x and always keep it up to the latest version.

      Since the 5960X is only clocked at 3.0 Hz. I'm concerned that editing AVCHDs will be not as smooth as one would expect from a $1000 chip. The editing process is quite complex, with multiple video layers (all AVCHD, either 60p or 60i), picture-in-picture, color correction (mostly GPU-accelerated ones such as the Three Way CC and RGB Curves), and so on. It's not simple cuts and a few transitions. In fact, the work required on those AVCHD files is very much beyond what AVCHD is meant for but it is what it is.

      So, considering all that, would you STILL fork out the extra cash to get the 5960X versus the 5930K, and if so, why?

       

      I thank you in advance for your opinions and insight!

       

      Current planned system specs (highlights)

       

      - Win 8.1

      - 5930K or 5960X (help!)

      - Asus Rampage V

      - 32 Gb 2666 RAM

      - GTX 780 (possibly will invest in a Titan X 12 Gb if funds allow)

      - Intel 730 SSD (480 GB) for OS and programs

      - I will use my current set of 5-6 SSD drives for sources, scratches, misc pull files, exports

       

      Thanks again for your feedback!

       

      PS: I would like to emphasize again that the actual process of editing and color correcting AVCHD files is what matters most to me here rather than getting the absolute fastest encoding times.

       

      * I realize that both chips are unlocked and made for overclocking. I've overclocked for years but frankly, I was never that comfortable with it, lots of crashes and instability - and that was at low overlock levels of around 20% or less. I do not want manage overclocking or thermal management or worry about frying the chips. If at all possible I would like to run the chips at stock, or as close to stock as possible. However I'm also open to suggestions about that.

        • 1. Re: 5960X vs 5930K for AVCHD editing? Workstation build help request
          JEShort01 Level 4

          Seems you have a budget in mind that will be a killer system for Adobe CC.

           

          Regarding the CPU choice, when spending that much on a system, to me it would be a no-brainer to go with the 8-core (5960x) overclocked to at least 4GHz. Done right, this would be extremely reliable and very fast. You are correct, sometimes real-time playback for highly compressed media does lean heavily on the CPU.

           

          If forced to answer your question as you posed it - overclocking is not allowed - then the higher clock speed 6-core (5930k) option would be my pick.

           

          If you are paying for an assembled system, definitely consider ADK for your build. They are audio and video editing specialists as opposed to gamer centric like iBuyPower seems to be. ADK has lots of tricks to build powerful, quiet, and reliable systems and know how to optimize your system to run Adobe and other video related software applications.

           

          Regarding the GPU, I'd suggest using a GTX 980 with either of the Haswell-E CPUs you are considering.

           

          Your drive plans sound great.

           

          Good luck!

           

          Jim

          • 2. Re: 5960X vs 5930K for AVCHD editing? Workstation build help request
            Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            Jim and FuelMe

             

            I really believe that 8 cores working at even non-overclocked 3.5 GHz Turbo speed would be faster than 6 cores at non-overclocked 3.7 GHz turbo speed for editing or exporting.  Now for just editing would you see $450 worth of improvement, probably not.  I am now doing all my AVCHD editing on an AC powered 4-core 3.4 GHz (Turbo speed) laptop. And then go to my desktop for exporting and disc formating and burning.

            • 3. Re: 5960X vs 5930K for AVCHD editing? Workstation build help request
              FuelMe Level 1

              Thanks for your points. I agree, if I were more comfortable with overclocking then the 8-core would definitely be the winner. Cost is an issue and that's why I need to be pretty sure that paying extra for the 8-core is actually worth it.

              I specced out a system on ADK's site but frankly the same config came in at almost $1000 lower on CyberPower and iBuyPower, and they also have more options to choose from.

              • 4. Re: 5960X vs 5930K for AVCHD editing? Workstation build help request
                FuelMe Level 1

                Bill, I see your point but I was under the impression that turbo only kicks in during encoding, and is not likely to trigger during editing/color correction. Do you know anyone who actually has the 8-core in their rig and is editing with that on a regular basis?

                • 5. Re: 5960X vs 5930K for AVCHD editing? Workstation build help request
                  JEShort01 Level 4

                  Bill and FuelMe,

                   

                  When you are not running overclocked and all cores are being utilized, then Intel will throttle you back to the CPU base speed rating, NOT the Turbo speed (in this case 3.0 GHz for the 5930k and 3.5 GHz for the 5960x).

                   

                  I am using a non-OC'd Intel 8-core processor now that has a 3.4 GHz base clock and a 4.0 GHz Turbo rating (e5-2687w v2). And while it can push 4.0 GHz at times, the 3.4 GHz base frequency is the maximum clock speed I ever see when playing back 4k and doing renders and all cores are maxed out. The rest of the system is quite fast (no weak links), so I do see 99% to 100% CPU utilization on all cores and hyperthreads pretty often. Again, I am cutting 4k as opposed to HD and that does make a big difference.

                   

                  I will likely do a Haswell-E OC'd build in the next year to gain some additional speed (3.4 GHz now with Xeon to 4.4 GHz OC for Haswell-E, plus the DDR4 RAM speed improvements on the x99 platform).

                   

                  Regards,

                   

                  Jim

                  • 6. Re: 5960X vs 5930K for AVCHD editing? Workstation build help request
                    FuelMe Level 1

                    So this confirms that basically I would edit/color correct at either base 3.0 Ghz with 8 cores, or 3.5 Ghz with 6 cores. Considering how important clock speed is with AVCHD, I'm starting to lean toward the 6 Core. UNLESS I get the overclocking down but I'm just really not sure this is a viable option for me. Shame, really. 8 core at 3.5 Ghz stock speed would have been incredible.

                    • 7. Re: 5960X vs 5930K for AVCHD editing? Workstation build help request
                      ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                      Actually the 5960X will clock the turbo speed for all cores if you set it that way which is one of the things we do with our systems. All Intel chips that are not locked can clock to their turbo rating for all cores if set that way. Even without setting all cores to the peak turbo ratio they will turbo to a clock speed higher than base when all cores are active. It's just not the peak turbo ratio. That has to be manually set. Turbo occurs anytime the system load reaches beyond a low level regardless of what your doing. The system boards and bios effect that. You can also disable a setting in the bios and the system will always stay at it's peak clock ratio. The 5960X clocked at 3.9 will easily outperform the 5930K with all codecs due to the cores and cache.

                       

                      We can configure the systems with any hardware available in the market. However we cant include all those items on the website right now without making it far harder for people to configure systems. The hardware options we list are there because they are tested to work with the video and audio hardware/software and the reliability. We also support the systems as a solution for the life of the system. We have price the systems for that support which is part of the price difference. The options you are looking at wont have near the same support or expertise with the hardware and software together hence why your asking the questions here.

                       

                      Eric

                      ADK

                      • 8. Re: 5960X vs 5930K for AVCHD editing? Workstation build help request
                        Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        If you would like to what a X99-E WS overclocked i7-5960X system can really do with the PPBM8 benchmark and do not mind registering at our web site, look a the first two top scores on our PPBM Results Page.  My second place RAID-less system is only topped by Gabriel's X99 system with RAID. Those two scores top out over many dual Xeon systems

                        • 9. Re: 5960X vs 5930K for AVCHD editing? Workstation build help request
                          FuelMe Level 1

                          Thank you for the info Eric, this is helpful. I'm happy to give ADK another look. Final cost is, of course, an issue but if we can get close, it's definitely worth a look.

                          • 10. Re: 5960X vs 5930K for AVCHD editing? Workstation build help request
                            FuelMe Level 1

                            What does it rate though - encoding times and throughput? Can your benchmark test for smoothness of editing/color correcting? The greatest benchmarks in the world won't help if theoretical high numbers don't match the real world experience.

                            • 11. Re: 5960X vs 5930K for AVCHD editing? Workstation build help request
                              Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              FuelMe wrote:

                               

                              What does it rate though - encoding times and throughput? Can your benchmark test for smoothness of editing/color correcting? The greatest benchmarks in the world won't help if theoretical high numbers don't match the real world experience.

                              That is very true but our tests are designed to test in real Premiere usage the CPU performance, GPU performance, Disk/SSD drive performance.  I have tried repeatedly to be able to test smoothness of play by using the  Frames Dropped Indicator but the consistency/repeatability is not satisfactory for meaningful benchmarking.  Just going for low total score is not what we really are suggesting.  But if you use the data to find your weakness then you can intelligently use that to fix your problem. 

                               

                              The media we use is immaterial it was only chosen as optimum to test specific functions.  For instance who still uses DV media?  But since it is the Windows native mode of Premiere it does make an ideal Disk/SSD transfer rate test.

                               

                              After testing and then referring to Harm's famous Video Codec's page you can see what are the demands of your specific media.