11 Replies Latest reply on Jan 28, 2017 9:13 PM by johnrellis

    Face image region data written according to XMP-mwg-rs, but NOT read by LR.

    Gintonic Level 1

      Great to see that LR CC writes face data to XMP-mwg-rs tags (jay!), according to Metadata Working Group (i.e. Adobe, Microsoft, Sony, Nokia, and others) extension of XMP. See  Image Region Metadata, Section 5.9 in the Metadata Working Group Spec.

       

      ---- XMP-mwg-rs

      RegionAppliedToDimensionsW      : 1768

      RegionAppliedToDimensionsH      : 2656

      RegionAppliedToDimensionsUnit   : pixel

      RegionRotation                  : -1.43512

      RegionName                      : Benoit Gindele

      RegionType                      : Face

      RegionAreaH                     : 0.04897

      RegionAreaW                     : 0.03262

      RegionAreaX                     : 0.59858

      RegionAreaY                     : 0.72477

      RegionRotation                  : -1.52229

       

      However, LR does NOT read and process existing XMP-mwg-rs written by other software, e.g. Picasa  (Nooooooo!).

       

      Picasa in turn reads and shows XMP-mwg-rs tags created by LR CC flawlessly.

       

      With large collections this is obviously a severe limitation for moving to LR, as well as for general interoperability. Adobe went half the way.

       

      Thousands and thousands of clicks to go, again...

        • 1. Re: Face image region data written according to XMP-mwg-rs, but NOT read by LR.
          johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

          Upload to Dropbox or similar a sample pic from Picasa that shows the problem and post the link here.  That will let us identify the specific issue and file a bug report/feature request.

          • 2. Re: Face image region data written according to XMP-mwg-rs, but NOT read by LR.
            Gintonic Level 1

            This image has a named face image region applied through Picasa:

            https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13499200/IMG_0903.JPG

             

            Exiftool output:

             

            ---- XMP-mwg-rs

            RegionAppliedToDimensionsW      : 3264

            RegionAppliedToDimensionsH      : 2448

            RegionAppliedToDimensionsUnit   : pixel

            RegionName                      : Nicoletta S.

            RegionType                      : Face

            RegionAreaX                     : 0.778799

            RegionAreaY                     : 0.18076

            RegionAreaW                     : 0.0649509

            RegionAreaH                     : 0.10335

            RegionAreaUnit                  : normalized

             

            When importing the file, LR CC does not seem to read and process the XMP-mwg-rs tags.

            Neither does the name show up in the People list, nor does it show the region area and the associated name in the corresponding interface.

             

            As mentioned in opening post, going the other way works: Images with named regions added through LR CC are recognized by Picasa, added to its list of people and can be processed through its face region overlay interface, i.e. renamed, moved, deleted etc.

            • 3. Re: Face image region data written according to XMP-mwg-rs, but NOT read by LR.
              johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

              When I import that sample pic, LR imports the face region and the name applied to that region ("Nicoletta Stanescu"), and it creates a keyword "Nicoletta Stanescu", but it doesn't apply that keyword to the photo:

              Untitled.png

              It doesn't apply the keyword to the photo because it wasn't specified in the photo's XMP:Subject or IPTC:Keywords fields. 

               

              The core issue is that LR represents named faces using both MWG regions and keywords, whereas Picasa apparently just uses MWG regions.  When LR imports a Picasa photo, it correctly imports the region and the name attached to the region.  But because Picasa didn't also record a keyword for that person, LR didn't attach any keyword to the photo on import.   I don't see anything in the MWG Guidance that prefers the behavior of one program over the other in this situation.

               

              To work around this incompatibility, you could use Exiftool to copy values in the Region Name field into the XMP:Subject field before you import the photos into LR.

              • 4. Re: Face image region data written according to XMP-mwg-rs, but NOT read by LR.
                Gintonic Level 1

                Ah ok, thanks very much for testing, johnrellis, I think now I understand what's going on here.

                 

                So mwg regions are recognized when importing.

                 

                However, they are not recognized as such in images which are already in the library.

                 

                See, this is what I got:

                LRCC-faceregionimporttest.jpg

                 

                I had to go and tell Lightroom to read the metadata again - then it showed me the imbedded mwg region and it's name.

                 

                The good news is you can go "Metadata > Read metadata from file" on a single image and LR will eventually show it's embedded regions. (Even then I had to go to the next image and back to have the interface actually update.)

                 

                The bad news is you cannot use the "Synchronize folder..." dialog in the Navigator. It will not detect existing face regions in images that were already imported.

                 

                Unless there is another way that means in the end you have to go through each image and click "Metadata > Read metadata from file".

                 

                I'm praying there is another way...

                • 5. Re: Face image region data written according to XMP-mwg-rs, but NOT read by LR.
                  johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                  you cannot use the "Synchronize folder..." dialog in the Navigator. It will not detect existing face regions in images that were already imported

                  Did you select the option Scan For metadata Updates in the Synchronize Folder window?  

                   

                  If that doesn't work (it should), you can use the Library Filter bar to identify all files whose metadata on disk is newer than what's in the catalog.  In the Metadata browser, use the Metadata Status column.  Then select all the displayed files and do Metadata > Read Metadata From File.  (You can make filter preset if you do that a lot.)

                  • 6. Re: Face image region data written according to XMP-mwg-rs, but NOT read by LR.
                    Gintonic Level 1

                    Did you select the option Scan For metadata Updates in the Synchronize Folder window? 

                    Yes, confirmed, with "Scan for metadata updates" selected LR doesn't see the XMP-mwg-rs info. (Perhaps it's just checking for a newer file date?)

                     

                    Your idea basically works, thank you for the tip. I can select multiple files and go "Read metadata from file" for all of them. I would have to try that for the whole library - a bit scared right now, for a single folder that's already taking some time.

                     

                    Even when LR performs its own face recognition on an image it won't look if there's already an XMP-mwg-rs tag. And so it will suggest faces for which regions are already defined and named.

                    • 7. Re: Face image region data written according to XMP-mwg-rs, but NOT read by LR.
                      johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                      In another thread, tfau wrote:

                      found a setting i Picasa "Store Name Tags in Photo" New facetags made in Picasa now is visible i LR.

                      That's a great tip for other Picasa users!

                      But all my old tags who not only are from before I activated this setting, but also generated i WLPG,but visible in Picasa, are still not visible in LR. If there had been a way to make Picasa store facetags on all my pictures in the JPG file, then that would be the way to do it, I hope. I have 15.000 pictures, many of them with facetags.

                      To handle your old pictures, a quick Google search brings up in its first result page how to write named face regions for your old pics.

                       

                      But beware that when you import these pics into Lightroom, you'll get the results that are discussed above in this thread. You'll be able to see the named face regions, but LR won't assign person keywords to the photos.

                      • 8. Re: Face image region data written according to XMP-mwg-rs, but NOT read by LR.
                        Mywayout Level 1

                        Building on all of this - I found http://www.mysysadmintips.com/windows/home-and-media/424-copy-windows-photo-gallery-face-t ags-to-google-picasa to get Window Photo Gallery into Picassa, which would then allow LR to read the face tags

                        • 9. Re: Face image region data written according to XMP-mwg-rs, but NOT read by LR.
                          Mywayout Level 1

                          Here is what I found that fixed the problem for me

                           

                          Below is the solution to get face tags from windows photo gallery to Lightroom for me. Be sure to backup your files.


                          *** Backup your files ***

                           

                          Move people names to keywords for Lightroom. Do this if you're using lightroom, do not do it if you're using picassa. I haven't yet been able to check to see but I'm guessing I will have to "convert it to a person tag" in lightroom keywords since they show as descriptive tags but I have tested everything else.

                           

                          With Exiftool, open the command prompt and navigate to the folder with exiftool in it:


                          Add the people names to the keywords

                           

                          exiftool "-xmp:subject+<regionname" FolderName -overwrite_origional_in_place -m -r


                          This came from:

                          Migrating from WPG to Lightroom 6 - People Tags

                          • 10. Re: Face image region data written according to XMP-mwg-rs, but NOT read by LR.
                            curt_a Level 1

                             

                            johnrellis wrote:

                            ...

                            The core issue is that LR represents named faces using both MWG regions and keywords, whereas Picasa apparently just uses MWG regions. When LR imports a Picasa photo, it correctly imports the region and the name attached to the region. But because Picasa didn't also record a keyword for that person, LR didn't attach any keyword to the photo on import. I don't see anything in the MWG Guidance that prefers the behavior of one program over the other in this situation.

                            If Picasa didn't record a keyword for that person, then why does Lr create a keyword for that person?  As shown in the screenshot above, Lr created a Person Keyword for Nicoletta Stanescu, but didn't associate the keyword to the photo from which it got the metadata for the keyword.  To be consistent with your explanation, it seems like Lr should not create a keyword at all.  However I would prefer it create the keyword AND associate it to the photo

                             

                            IMO, Lr should either not create a keyword at all, or ... create the keyword AND associate it with the photo. Seems like they went halfway which is causing this confusion.

                            • 11. Re: Face image region data written according to XMP-mwg-rs, but NOT read by LR.
                              johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                              What you and the others have requested -- for LR to be able to read Picasa's face metadata -- is an entirely reasonable feature request. You might wish to add your me-too vote and detailed opinion to this existing feature request in the official Adobe feedback forum: Lightroom feature request - Import Picasa face recognition data | Photoshop Family Customer Community

                               

                              It would be straightforward to implement: LR is already creating the keyword for an imported face name, and it would be simple to also assign that keyword to the photo, regardless of whether the keyword appears in the XMP:Subject or IPTC:Keywords fields.

                               

                              To be consistent with your explanation, it seems like Lr should not create a keyword at all.

                              LR's behavior matches my explanation.  When LR encounters a Metadata Working Group region with a face name, it creates the face rectangle in the LR catalog and a keyword for the face name, associated with that face rectangle.   When LR encounters a keyword in the XMP:Subject or IPTC:Keywords fields in an imported photo, it assigns that keyword to the photo. This behavior is entirely consistent with the MWG standard, but it clearly isn't desirable for people trying to import Picasa photos, since Picasa doesn't put the face names into XMP:Subject or IPTC:Keywords.

                               

                              The core issue here is that LR and Picasa use the metadata fields in different ways to represent faces and people, and the MWG standard doesn't have anything to say about that (unfortunately).