23 Replies Latest reply on May 11, 2015 3:44 PM by ophello

    Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away

    ophello Level 1

      This appears to be a problem with InDesign in general. For reasons I won't get into, this is an image asset that is being printed at 700dpi. When I export a JPEG from InDesign, I'm getting really strange image artifacts that won't go away no matter what I do.

       

      Normal image detail JPEG at 72dpi:

      Screen Shot 2015-05-05 at 10.33.09 AM.jpg

       

       

      InDesign export JPEG at 72dpi:

      Screen Shot 2015-05-05 at 10.33.21 AM.jpg

       

       

      Any ideas? When I export at higher than 72dpi, I still get these bands, they're just spaced farther apart due to the higher resolution. But they're always there.

        • 1. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
          John Mensinger Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          There are (a few) times when raster image export from InDesign can be justified in some workflow or other, but the application is really neither intended nor designed to do it well.

          ophello wrote:

           

          Any ideas?

          Yes. Don't export to JPEG from InDesign.

           

          If for some reason you truly must have a raster image of an InDesign layout, export to PDF using a suitable recipe, then open the PDF in Photoshop. From there, save in the format of choice.

          • 2. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
            ophello Level 1

            I'm well aware of the fact that I can rasterize a PDF. My question involves how to make InDesign play nice when exporting JPEGs.

            • 3. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
              Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

              Why do you need a JPG when you wan to print the INDD, is there a reason why you are not exporting a PDF?

              • 4. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                ophello Level 1

                I have a production workflow that uses an applescript droplet to export a reference JPG from every print file to be included in packages sent to print, in addition to a press PDF. I believe this is so they have a quick screen reference to refer to when working with the files (Anyway, it's not by choice. This is what happens when you work with printers). This is a high-volume production workflow and it isn't viable to have to add several extra steps to the process in order to get a clean image. I'm not interested in workarounds -- I'm interested in getting InDesign to export a clean image. If this is not possible, then that's that.

                • 5. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                  John Mensinger Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  My question involves how to make InDesign play nice when exporting JPEGs.

                  My reply clearly addressed that. InDesign is simply the wrong tool for producing JPEG's.

                   

                  JPEG compression (and control over it) is best done by an application that was designed from the ground up to read and write raster image data; i.e., Photoshop.

                   

                  If you drive a screw with a hammer, the result will not be a cleanly driven screw. It's that simple.

                  • 6. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                    Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                    Make your JPGs in Photoshop which can output better JPGs.

                    • 7. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                      ophello Level 1

                      I am aware that photoshop is the better tool for this. I'm not asking how to do it in Photoshop. I'm asking how to do it in InDesign. If the answer is "it can't be done" then just say that.

                      • 8. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                        John Mensinger Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        ophello wrote:

                        I'm asking how to do it in InDesign. If the answer is "it can't be done" then just say that.

                        It can't be done.

                         

                        But here's the thing...maybe it can. Experienced professionals who need quality JPEG output simply don't pursue it via InDesign export, and as such perhaps the process hasn't been explored and optimized by anyone who is concerned and knowledgeable enough to nail it down.

                         

                        Some context you may not have:

                        For the forum regulars, sometimes it feels like there is an unending parade of relatively inexperienced users who expect one application to do it all, or they come here to express their dismay over the fact that "even Microsoft Word has this or that automatic feature...I never would have expected a powerhouse like InDesign to be so far behind..." There is no shortage of weird and convoluted workflows based on "it lets me do this, so that means I should..." Troublesome JPEG export from InDesign, and workflow built around it are common themes in the recurring nightmare.

                         

                        So please forgive us for not expecting this:

                        I have a production workflow that uses an applescript droplet to export a reference JPG from every print file to be included in packages sent to print...

                        While this is yet another example of misguided workflow (automated yet), I believe you would have received more sympathetic responses had we known, even if the outcome was no different.

                        • 9. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                          ophello Level 1

                          You make a mistake in assuming I am not an experienced professional. In fact, I am probably qualified to moderate this entire forum.

                           

                          >While this is yet another example of misguided workflow

                           

                          Misguided how? There is nothing wrong with the workflow. In the vast majority of cases, these artifacts are not visible. It is only happening on images with higher-than-usual effective DPI (this is for a big client, these DPIs are not negotiable.) It would be trivial to code an Applescript subroutine to handle exporting perfect JPGs via photoshop but rather than spend the time doing that, I thought I'd ask if there was a way to do it in InDesign. Fewer running applications and lower complexity means a faster automation and fewer opportunities for the script to fail, which is why InDesign is preferred in this instance.

                          • 10. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                            John Mensinger Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            ophello wrote:

                             

                            You make a mistake in assuming I am not an experienced professional.

                            I made no such mistake. You obviously made considerable inferences when reading my post, which was intended to be apologetic.

                            Misguided how? There is nothing wrong with the workflow.

                            You should probably chalk that up as nothing more than my opinion. I just have trouble resolving the notion of destructive auto-export of a page layout composed largely of vector data (presumably) to a lossy raster format for use as reference. Reference of what? It can't be used to match color, preview separations, check spelling. It would make a lot more sense (to me) to use a properly exported PDF for the entire process; printing, reference, everything...one step, one file, all-in all-purpose. Again, just my opinion.

                            ..DPI (this is for a big client, these DPIs are not negotiable.

                            Seems opposed to your opening statement.

                            • 11. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                              ophello Level 1

                              >Experienced professionals who need quality JPEG output simply don't pursue it via InDesign export

                               

                              Since that is what I am trying to do, it implies that I am not an "experienced professional." Sometimes experienced professionals have to do things they don't want to do.

                               

                              Again, there is nothing wrong with the workflow. That's what the client wants. If the workflow delivers that, it by definition isn't misguided. I don't question why a client wants something, especially a client as large as the one I'm working for. For some reason, they want both a PDF and a JPEG.

                               

                              I'm not able to make sense of your last comment reply to my statement about DPIs.

                              • 12. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                I believe this is so they have a quick screen reference to refer to when working with the files (Anyway, it's not by choice. This is what happens when you work with printers.

                                 

                                If the script is creating the JPEG for screen review why does the quality matter—the JPEG won't be printed?

                                 

                                It would be trivial to code an Applescript subroutine to handle exporting perfect JPGs via photoshop but rather than spend the time doing that, I thought I'd ask if there was a way to do it in InDesign

                                 

                                Artifact problems with ID JPEG exports have come up in other threads. Here is an AppleScript that imitates the JPEG dialog but runs the export via PDF. It's surprisingly fast, might even be faster than the built-in JPEG export

                                 

                                http://www.zenodesign.com/forum/ExportPDFtoJPEG.zip

                                • 13. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                                  ophello Level 1

                                  If the script is creating the JPEG for screen review why does the quality matter—the JPEG won't be printed?

                                   

                                  I'd like the jpeg not to have blatant artifacts that lead the printer to question whether there is a problem with original asset.

                                   

                                  Artifact problems with ID JPEG exports have come up in other threads. Here is an AppleScript that imitates the JPEG dialog but runs the export via PDF. It's surprisingly fast, might even be faster than the built-in JPEG export

                                   

                                  Thanks!

                                  • 14. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    whether there is a problem with original asset.

                                     

                                    It's hard to imagine that you could make any meaningful judgement of placed images from either a JPEG export or a ID>PDF>PS>JPEG export. In either case you are essentially ripping the entire page to a set resolution and color space, so you would get a color conversion and transparency flattening that may or may not match the final output, and all of the placed images would be either up or down sampled to the exported res and you would no longer see the actual pixels or know the effective scaled resolution.

                                    • 15. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                                      John Mensinger Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      rob day wrote:

                                      It's hard to imagine that you could make any meaningful judgement of placed images from either a JPEG export or a ID>PDF>PS>JPEG export. In either case you are essentially ripping the entire page to a set resolution and color space, so you would get a color conversion and transparency flattening that may or may not match the final output, and all of the placed images would be either up or down sampled to the exported res and you would no longer see the actual pixels or know the effective scaled resolution.

                                      That's exactly what I was getting at in post 10.

                                       

                                      Big Client wants it.

                                      • 16. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                                        ophello Level 1

                                        Like I said, not my call.

                                        • 17. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          I get that, but since a JPEG isn't particularly useful for preflight, maybe the less perfect export isn't really a problem. What would they do if they saw the artifact, check the actual PDF?

                                          • 18. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                                            ophello Level 1

                                            To be honest, I have no idea. This is the kind of client we want to impress with our attention to detail, even if it's never noticed.

                                            • 19. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                                              ophello Level 1

                                              I got an answer today that you all might be interested in:

                                               

                                              JPEGs are required with each package instead of a PDF so the printer can quickly preview the InDesign package without being tempted to print the file directly. Some printers have mistakenly printed a low-resolution preview PDF, even when it was clearly labeled "PREVIEW_DO-NOT-PRINT." No printer would ever print a JPEG by mistake.

                                               

                                              So there you have it. A perfectly reasonable request, if you ask me.

                                              • 20. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                                                so the printer can quickly preview the InDesign package

                                                 

                                                Sounds like there wouldn't be a problem with ID's JPEG export if it's an easier workflow.

                                                • 21. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                                                  ophello Level 1

                                                  It's not their workflow -- it's ours. We can change it if we need to, but for now, I thought I'd see if there was another solution.

                                                  • 22. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                                                    M. Griswold Level 1

                                                    Ophello wrote:

                                                    Some printers have mistakenly printed a low-resolution preview PDF, even when it was clearly labeled "PREVIEW_DO-NOT-PRINT." No printer would ever print a JPEG by mistake.

                                                     

                                                    I'm a printer and I would be embarassed to ask that of my cients. It's essentially saying that they can't find a better way to control their own mistakes. And then to be concerned about artifacts in a position only preview???

                                                     

                                                    You guys have a lot more time on your hands than I do. Wow!

                                                    • 23. Re: Exporting JPEGs: image artifacts won't go away
                                                      ophello Level 1

                                                      I should have said printers. The client is asking for us to do this on behalf of the printers -- the printers are not asking for this themselves.

                                                       

                                                      These artifacts didn't happen until recently with this particular project. It wasn't a concern until now.