14 Replies Latest reply on May 10, 2015 11:15 AM by jim_st

    "Copy as DNG" not working on Leica M .DNG files

    jim_st

      Hi-

       

       

      In the past I've always imported files from the Leica M digitals into LR using "Copy as DNG" as the Adobe DNG's compress the cameras files losslessly and this saves about 40% on file size with no downside I've yet encountered.

       

       

      In LR6 the new Copy as DNG is not working with files from my Leica M9. I have Prefs set to change the file extensions from the ".DNG" the camera produces to ".dng" , but what is coming into LR is the full-size .DNG files, and at the end of the import routine I get the "Non-raw files were not converted to DNG" notice pops up.

       

       

      Am I missing a trick here? Does LR6/CC require an add-on DNG converter or something? Or is there some reason it is not recognising the Leica files as raws? I shoot just raw, not raw + jpeg, so that's not the issue.

       

       

      Can anyone suggest what's going on?

       

       

      Jim

        • 1. Re: "Copy as DNG" not working on Leica M .DNG files
          JoeKostoss Level 4

          Based on the message you are getting, you are not shooting in raw.

          • 2. Re: "Copy as DNG" not working on Leica M .DNG files
            jim_st Level 1

            Thanks for the suggestion, Joe, but I am most definitely shooting raw. The Leica M cameras produce .DNG files when set to raw, and only when set to raw (or raw + jpeg)

             

            Jim

            • 3. Re: "Copy as DNG" not working on Leica M .DNG files
              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Can you supply a sample file that doesn't import, for others to test?  Upload to www.dropbox.com and post a public download link, here.

              • 4. Re: "Copy as DNG" not working on Leica M .DNG files
                jim_st Level 1

                Hi ssprengel

                 

                Can I just clarify that it is not the case that the files "do not import". The files do import, but unlike in LR1 through LR5.7.1, they do not "Copy as (compressed, Adobe) dng" files. They just "Copy" and come into my HD and into LR as uncompressed Leica dng files. A typical file from the M9 is around 35MB in uncompressed, Leica dng file format. Once imported using "Copy as dng" in versions of LR prior to LR6/CC, the M9 files would be typically around 18-20MB.

                 

                Hope that clarifies the issue. I will be happy to provide link to my Dropbox on request, but I don't really want to publish that link here

                 

                Thanks for responding

                 

                Jim

                • 5. Re: "Copy as DNG" not working on Leica M .DNG files
                  JoeKostoss Level 4

                  It is possible to publish a link in dropbox for that particular photo only.  Others will have access only to that photo, not to your restricted dropbox account.

                  • 6. Re: "Copy as DNG" not working on Leica M .DNG files
                    ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Upload a test photo of something non-descript like a blank wall or the sky or some such thing.

                    • 7. Re: "Copy as DNG" not working on Leica M .DNG files
                      jim_st Level 1

                      I don't see the usefulness of me sharing files or test photos around. Nothing has changed about the files the camera produces: it's how LR's "Copy as DNG" has changed in LR6/CC that is the issue here...

                       

                      If I'm missing something, please explain

                       

                      Jim

                      • 8. Re: "Copy as DNG" not working on Leica M .DNG files
                        ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        I don't have your camera, so I'd like to test things for myself, to see if I can determine why the file is not being reported as raw and therefore rejected for DNG conversion.

                        • 9. Re: "Copy as DNG" not working on Leica M .DNG files
                          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          No need to supply a DNG, I found some sample files on the internet.

                          • 10. Re: "Copy as DNG" not working on Leica M .DNG files
                            ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            I found some test M9 DNGs from 2009 on the internet and imported them into LR 6 and observed the behavior that you're describing:

                             

                            My interpretation is that everything is working as designed, although it is working differently in LR 6.

                             

                            I would guess that Adobe decided it is better to copy these camera-DNGs as is, to keep their compatibility with native camera software.  If the DNGs were "converted' and compressed losslessly to new DNGs then they might be unreadable to the native camera software supplied by the camera manufacturer or a third party and just looking at the files on disk it would be impossible to know which ones are camera-native-DNGs and which ones are Adobe-created-DNGs.  Of course you lose the lossless compression due to this change in Import behavior.

                             

                            As far as the pop-up message goes, only the rationale for not doing the conversion is wrong:

                             

                            The message indicates "We didn't do DNG Conversion on some of these files...because they aren't raw"

                             

                            The message could have more specifically correctly indicated "We didn't do DNG Conversion on some of these files...because they are already DNGs," but then there would need to be a different non-DNG-Conversion message when JPGs were mixed in.

                             

                            The message could indicate "We didn't do DNG Conversion on some of these files...because they are either already DNG or are not raw."

                             

                            Here is the URL for the Leica M9 samples I tried in LR 6:

                            LEICA M9 Sample Images and DNG files

                            • 11. Re: "Copy as DNG" not working on Leica M .DNG files
                              jim_st Level 1

                              Thanks ssprengel for taking the time to investigate this question. I really do appreciate your concern


                              However...  Quote: "If the DNGs were "converted' and compressed losslessly to new DNGs then they might be unreadable to the native camera software supplied by the camera manufacturer or a third party and just looking at the files on disk it would be impossible to know which ones are camera-native-DNGs and which ones are Adobe-created-DNGs."


                              The native camera software supplied by the camera manufacturer Leica has for some years been Lightroom. If it were to be the case that " just looking at the files on disk it would be impossible to know which ones are camera-native-DNGs and which ones are Adobe-created-DNGs." then frankly, who cares? It is easy (as I do) to get the suffix .DNG changed to .dng in LR's Prefs in order to distinguish at a glance files that have been converted on import to Adobe's compressed dng format. It is also easy for any LR user to make the choice between "Copy" and "Copy as DNG" in the Import screen depending on whether they want to use the adobe compressed format of the Leica fat-file format (and one can always store these in backup, where "Copy as DNG" will not convert files to Adobe dng)


                              So I can see no good reason for the LR6 approach that rules out Adobe dng compression at import. I also suspect it is an oversight that slipped through in the absence of a public beta run, as I believe was the case with the "Merge to Pano" algorithm's failure to exclude from its calculations the aperture disinformation the Leica digital-M's produce (see this thread in this Forum: LR/ACR Pano Merge Blending Glitch)


                              I don't agree that it's just a matter of rectifying the message to read "We didn't do DNG Conversion on some of these files...because they are either already DNG or are not raw.": I think the LR team may well have overlooked this issue with files from Leica M-digitals (and also many Pentax, Ricoh and Samsung cameras).


                              I posted here in the hope that I might alert the LR team to the issue, and maybe get my file compression back, or else an explanation why they think I didn't ought to do that

                               

                              Regards

                               

                              Jim

                              • 12. Re: "Copy as DNG" not working on Leica M .DNG files
                                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Your camera's DNGs may read fine in the camera-supplied software because it is Adobe LR, but there are 56 other camera models listed on Adobe's "Supported Cameras" page that also produce DNGs so it may be one of the others that was safer to leave alone and yours got caught up in it, or it could be a glitch, and you obviously want smaller raw files in the form of Adobe-created DNGs.

                                 

                                I wouldn't say that something non-optimal in a newly-added function like HDR--the simple-minded reliance on what turns out to be bogus exposure data in Leica raw files, is in any way the same sort of thing as a change in how DNGs are handled on import since the import code has existed for many versions, already, and could have just continued to use the same old coding as before, unless there has been a purposeful change, which I'm providing a plausible albeit speculative rationale for.

                                 

                                Does the DNG Converter handle them more like you want, or is it now also unable to recreate a DNG from a DNG?

                                • 13. Re: "Copy as DNG" not working on Leica M .DNG files
                                  jim_st Level 1

                                  Quote:

                                  "I wouldn't say that something non-optimal in a newly-added function like HDR--the simple-minded reliance on what turns out to be bogus exposure data in Leica raw files, is in any way the same sort of thing as a change in how DNGs are handled on import since the import code has existed for many versions, already, and could have just continued to use the same old coding as before, unless there has been a purposeful change, which I'm providing a plausible albeit speculative rationale for."

                                   

                                  I take your point, ssprengel. I'm away from my home computer at present, but I'll try out the DNG Converter when I get back there in a couple of days and post results here. Of course that will not be a useful workaround, but it would be interesting to see if the latest iteration of the converter has the same functionality as Copy as DNG. For now, it's maybe worth mentioning that the Library> Convert Photo to DNG command in LR6/CC does work on the Leica files.

                                   

                                   

                                  Jim

                                  • 14. Re: "Copy as DNG" not working on Leica M .DNG files
                                    jim_st Level 1

                                    Got back today and downloaded latest v.9.0 of Adobe DNG Converter: ran it on a couple  of M9 files and it worked just fine: 36MB files compressed to 21MB

                                     

                                    I'd appreciate your comments on this, sspregel. Do you see any reason why it should still work as previously in the DNG Converter, but not in LR6/CC?

                                     

                                    Jim