22 Replies Latest reply on May 11, 2015 6:48 AM by trshaner

    Drag & drop of folders creates ?

    garyb87389842

      Hi I am a new user of Lightroom. I have been trialling it for a couple of days now.

       

      Initially, having watched a few tutorials, I was dragging & dropping folders within LR fine. The functionality was as described.

       

      Last night however things started to go pear shaped. whilst continuing my efforts to organise my photos & folders I continued to drag & drop things here & there but now the folders don't appear to move. Clicking back on a folder that I have tried to move (in its previous location where it is still showing) causes it to display a ?. The facility to search for the missing folder doesn't work for it either.

       

      In finder the folder & any files are correctly shown in the new location.

       

      I have attempted everything that I can think of. Optimising, synchronising etc but the only thing that works is to reboot LR & then the folder that has been moved is shown correctly.

       

      Obviously I cannot restart LR every time I move a folder...

       

      Any tips please?

        • 1. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
          dj_paige Level 9

          A possible (not guaranteed) solution to this problem is to delete your Preference File. Preference and other file locations in Lightroom 5

           

          Another solution is to move all the folders using your operating system and then in Lightroom re-connect via these instructions: Adobe Lightroom - Find moved or missing files and folders. This works best if you have a large "tree" of folders that you can move at once by moving the top level folder and re-connecting the top level folder. It works on individual folders as well.

          • 2. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
            garyb87389842 Level 1

            Thanks. I tried both of those ideas but to no avail.

             

            Reconnecting simply doesnt work. I states that there is already a folder of this name should I merge them together? When I say yes it does nothing.

             

            Gary

            • 3. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
              dj_paige Level 9

              Reconnecting should work. If you say yes to merging the folders, then your question marks should be gone.

              • 4. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                garyb87389842 Level 1

                Thanks but it simply doesn't!

                 

                It DID before when a few folders were in the wrong location so I understand how it could & should function but now it doesn't.

                 

                LR has moved the folder in the OS but it doesn't think that it has moved it within itself so it seems to have lost track of where it is and therefore cannot reconnect.

                 

                Once restarted LR figures it out..a strange problem that only started to occur once I had moved a large amount of photos & folders into it.

                • 5. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  This is what happens when you move a folder inside LR:

                   

                  1) The system OS physically moves the folder to the new location on HDD.

                  2) LR removes the folder and files old HDD location data from the catalog.

                  3) LR updates the catalog with the new HDD folder location data.

                  4) LR will now show the folder and files at the new HDD location.

                   

                  All of the above steps must be completed successfully before the folder appears at it's new location in LR's Library module.

                   

                  If you're moving a folder with a large number of files to a new location the HDD must physically write those files to the new location. This could take many minutes:

                   

                  EXAMPLE:

                  100 MB/sec. HDD Write speed (typical)

                  Move folder with 1,000 raw files @ 25 MB size = 25,000 MB

                  25,000 MB / 100 MB/sec = 250 sec. or 4 minutes


                  If you start another folder move operation before all 1,000 of the files have been moved (i.e. 4 minutes). You are now running two HDD Write operations in parallel, so things will slow down...and then a third folder move...your HDD Write will slow down even more. At some point LR and your system OS is going to bog down.

                   

                  THREE SOLUTIONS

                  1) Use dj_paige's suggestion to move the folders from outside LR and then reconnect it inside LR. Just make sure you don't lose track of where you moved From and To.

                   

                  2) Move one (1) folder or folder tree at a time and wait until the Write transfer on HDD has completed

                   

                  3) Stop moving folders and use LR's other organizational tools, such as Keywords, Collections, Ratings, etc.

                   

                  http://thedambook.com/organizing-your-photos-with-lightroom-5/

                  • 6. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                    garyb87389842 Level 1

                    Ok thanks.

                     

                    I am still trying!

                     

                    Seriously I have tried both of the previous suggestions a couple or more times now.

                     

                    My latest experiments are to try a test folder with 1 or 2 images inside it. Nothing else selected to occur just after a reboot of LR.

                     

                    The problem remains...

                     

                    I have tried repairing my hard drives, repairing permissions & just about everything else MAC related that I can think of...

                    • 7. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                      dj_paige Level 9

                      I have no idea why this is happening to you

                       

                      Suggestion: in Lightroom move all the folders you want to move, then re-start Lightroom once

                      • 8. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                        trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        garyb87389842 wrote:

                        The problem remains...

                         

                        I have tried repairing my hard drives, repairing permissions & just about everything else MAC related that I can think of...

                        Anytime something like this happens it's best to close ALL applications and reboot the system OS.....not just relaunch LR.

                         

                        Just out of curiosity what is the top-level folder size (MB) and file count of the largest fold-tree you moved inside LR? Please check it in Mac Finder.

                        • 9. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                          garyb87389842 Level 1

                          Thanks. Yes I have restarted the whole computer several times now.

                           

                          Largest folder? Approx 300mb. But as I said I am now replicating the problem with empty folders or with 1/2 images in.

                          • 10. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                            trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Next step to determine the cause (or rule out) is resetting your LR Preferences file, as dj_paige suggested:

                             

                            https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb/preference-file-locations-lightroom-41.html

                             

                            Rename the current file with a .OLD extension (com.adobe.Lightroom5.plist.OLD), which will allow restoring it if this doesn't resolve the folder move issue. No need to delete it.

                            • 11. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                              garyb87389842 Level 1

                              Yes I did that earlier when he suggested it.

                              • 12. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                                trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                garyb87389842 wrote:

                                 

                                Hi I am a new user of Lightroom. I have been trialling it for a couple of days now.

                                 

                                Initially, having watched a few tutorials, I was dragging & dropping folders within LR fine. The functionality was as described.

                                I re-read your initial post and to be honest I'm confused why you are moving folders if you are simply "trialing" LR. Your focus should be on "testing" LR's editing tools....yes, no???? Issues with moving folders around in LR is usually something we here from people who've actually bought LR and are doing dedicated work. I'm just trying to better understand your objectives.

                                 

                                Please confirm that the folders you are talking about have all been Imported into LR using the LR Import module. Also confirm that you are dragging and dropping the folders entirely inside the LR Library module 'Folders' panel (left-side panel) and NOT using 'Finder.' First time users sometimes don't understand that the two are separate entities. The LR 'Folders' panel only shows the files and folders that you have Imported into LR using the Import module. Finder can see everything including the files and folders moved inside LR, but not vice-versa. If you are already aware of this it doesn't hurt repeating it!

                                 

                                As the next step I suggest creating a 2nd new test catalog. Import some folders into it and try moving those folders again from inside LR. Move them one-at-a-time and wait for your HDD to complete the Write of the moved folder.

                                • 13. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                                  garyb87389842 Level 1

                                  trshaner wrote:

                                   

                                  I re-read your initial post and to be honest I'm confused why you are moving folders if you are simply "trialing" LR. Your focus should be on "testing" LR's editing tools....yes, no???? Issues with moving folders around in LR is usually something we here from people who've actually bought LR and are doing dedicated work. I'm just trying to better understand your objectives.

                                   

                                  Oh dear! Despite the addition of a smiley I detect a hostile post rather than a helpful one. Why is that? Is it defensive inasmuch as you are an Adobe employee? I don't know if you are or not but really is there any need for comments such as those when all I am asking for is help to solve a problem? Surely that is in the best interests of Adobe anyway? Different users approach things in a different way & that is when these things are discovered.

                                   

                                  I am a long term user of numerous applications for photography. Most recently Aperture which I like very much. However, as I am sure you are aware, it will cease to be supported soon. Hence I am revisiting LR. I trialled it on its first release & did not like it. I gave it another try at version 4 and came to the same conclusion. It wasn't for me. Now I am giving it another go & TBH I was very impressed until last night. IMHO it has come on leaps & bounds. Why shouldn't I try whichever functions an application has to offer? That is akin to saying I shouldn't drive a new car away on holiday before I've practised going to work in it. I can drive a car so whichever direction I choose to go in it is irrelevant. The same stands for LR. Does everyone have to prove their pedigree before asking questions?

                                   

                                  What I want from LR is an organisational tool first & foremost.Thousands of photographs that need to be collated BEFORE editing. If it doesn't do that well then why bother going further? Furthermore who has said that I haven't tried the editing facilities? Actually I have &, again, I was impressed. I tried various functions & they worked well. Using the brush to lighten some areas in a very overexposed background, taking an object out of the foreground and replacing it with cloned water that surrounded it. etc etc. I am used to using these type of editing functions & only needed to try some. Most of them are standard editing type routines.

                                   

                                  I also tried out search functions, flags, METADATA, Keywords...why not try as much as you can? It's only a 30 day trial.  What I am not impressed by so far is one of the major selling points to me. Aperture import. Thus far it has proved to be pretty poor with many missing images that it cannot deal with. I KNOW that they are fine in Aperture. So with that & the fact that I have spent the last 24 hours messing with the folder problem, I don't like to be beaten, I am thinking at the moment that I won't be taking it further than the trial period again. 

                                   

                                  As to your other points yes to all of them. I am used to reading manuals. I have BETA tested many applications previously and reported back on them. I have watched several tutorials & YES I have done everything inside LR & YES I understand the difference. YES I have started several new catalogs & YES the same occurs.

                                   

                                  Over to you!

                                  • 14. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                                    trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    garyb87389842 wrote:

                                    Oh dear! Despite the addition of a smiley I detect a hostile post rather than a helpful one. Why is that? Is it defensive inasmuch as you are an Adobe employee?

                                    Gary, I am not an Adobe employee and no hostility was intended. Prior to your last reply I had no knowledge of your experience-level or reason for "moving folders" in LR during a trial. As mentioned, "I'm just trying to better understand your objectives." Now that I know you had issues with the Aperture Import function it makes more sense. In fact that could very well be the root problem. Perhaps the Aperture Import conversion has rendered the folder structure or files incompatible inside LR, especially since some of the files would not import at all. I do apologize if you were put off by my comments, but it has helped me to better understand your objectives and issues with LR.

                                     

                                    Here are some posts that may be helpful:

                                     

                                    issues with importing Aperture Library into Photoshop Lightroom

                                     

                                    Re: Importing from aperture

                                     

                                    Lightroom 6 migration from Aperture Library

                                     

                                    You may want to give this suggestion a try as well to rule out a LR catalog issue:

                                     

                                    As the next step I suggest creating a 2nd new test catalog. Import some folders into it and try moving those folders again from inside LR. Move them one-at-a-time and wait for your HDD to complete the Write of the moved folder.


                                    You may also want to create another post with a different subject, such as 'Aperture Import Folders cannot be moved in LR 6.' This will get the attention of other users with experience using the Aperture Import plugin who may be able to help you resolve this issue.

                                    • 15. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                                      garyb87389842 Level 1

                                      Ok no probs.

                                       

                                      Listen I WANT to like LR. It has much to offer & if I could get it working it would be a very good choice for me.

                                       

                                      I repeat I have tried ALL of the suggestions on this thread to date.


                                      I know that I mentioned the problems with Aperture but I will disregard those for now. I want to get the basics working first. I can always import the RAW files from scratch.


                                      I NEED a solution to this folder moving problem. It just simply does not work.


                                      Is there a facility to export say a whole folder that contains all of the data that is associated with it? File numbers, sub folders, Metadata, editing etc. Then import it into a new catalog? This would help if I started yet another Catalog.


                                      Gary

                                      • 16. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                                        trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        1) You can try creating a new 'Master Catalog' with nothing in it and then "merge" your current LR catalog into the new Master Catalog. Julieanne Kost's LR videos are very good and easy to follow:

                                         

                                        http://tv.adobe.com/watch/the-complete-picture-with-julieanne-kost/lr3-merging-individual- lightroom-catalogs-into-a-master-catalog-/

                                         

                                        If you follow all of the steps as she outlines nothing in your current catalog will be lost. Try the folder move operation after completing the above procedure.

                                         

                                        2) If that doesn't resolve the folder move issue you'll need to create a new catalog and reimport all of the folders. You can save your LR metadata edits and Develop module edits to XMP files, but will lose Collections, Virtual Copies, and any work done in LR's other modules.

                                         

                                        http://tv.adobe.com/watch/the-complete-picture-with-julieanne-kost/saving-changes-to-your- photographs-in-lightroom-3/

                                         

                                        NOTE: Both of the above videos are for LR3, but should work the same in LR 4, 5, 6, and CC.

                                        • 17. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                                          garyb87389842 Level 1

                                          Thanks. I will try to merge Catalogs later...

                                          • 18. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                                            garyb87389842 Level 1

                                            OK I've messed with this all afternoon now & it is driving me CRAZY!

                                             

                                            However there has been a discovery...

                                             

                                            I have 99% of my photographs on external hard drives which are where I am trying to organise/ sort them. This evening I tried to drag & drop on the internal Mac drive & it works exactly as it should. So I have a number of external drives & the same happens on all them. Drag & drop a folder and it displays a ?.

                                             

                                            There's no space on my internal drive & all of the external ones have this problem so I think that I will give up/

                                             

                                            Have there been no other reports of this phenomena?

                                            • 19. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                                              ManiacJoe Adobe Community Professional

                                              If your goal is to organize a large number of photos first, then edit them after they are organized, your best bet is to organize the photos on your hard drive(s) using your OS tools. Then when finished organizing them, import them in-place into LR using the "add" option.

                                               

                                              LR does know how to move things around, but if you are dealing with a large number of files, LR is the wrong tool for doing the disk organization.

                                              • 20. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                                                trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                It still sounds like a permissions issue or maybe this?????

                                                 

                                                Re: This volume does not support The Trash...

                                                 

                                                What formatting are you using on the external drives.

                                                 

                                                https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201909

                                                • 21. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                                                  garyb87389842 Level 1

                                                  Thanks. I have checked the permissions numerous times.

                                                   

                                                  I have just tried "trash" problem to no avail.

                                                   

                                                  I can move photos & delete them ok on the external drives, just not move any folders without getting the?

                                                   

                                                  HFS Journaled on all drives...

                                                  • 22. Re: Drag & drop of folders creates ?
                                                    trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    To clarify.

                                                     

                                                    When you move a folder that's on an external drives to a new location (on the same drive) the folder is physically moved in Finder. In LR you still see the original folder in its same location, but with '?' on it. Do you see the folder and its contained files inside LR at the new location?