1 2 Previous Next 69 Replies Latest reply on Jan 28, 2016 1:06 PM by Szalam Branched from an earlier discussion.

    Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG

    tavmed

      Just discovered this problem myself, this is a big disappointment since I work at a studio doing visual effects and have been trying to defend the capabilities of After Effects as a great compositing tool from hoards of Nuke users who look down their noses at After Effects for years now.   After trying everything to solve this issue including scouring the message boards and forums without finding a solution to this, I finally got on a chat session with a tech person at Adobe.  After they asked me to run all the tests I had already run to no avail, the Adobe agent's final input was this:

       

      "Well then may be it cannot be done in after effects; I am sorry."


      Despite this person's expertise, I refuse to believe that there is no solution.  But until there is one, I will have to render my Photo -Jpeg quicktimes using Nuke, which will likely result in my finally giving up on After Effects and switching over once and for all.  I hate to throw away years of experience and render every AE plug-in you can name useless but if I can't do my job because Adobe can't do theirs then that leaves few options. 

        • 1. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
          Vinay Dwivedi Adobe Employee

          Hi Clyde,

           

          Sorry to hear that. Please mention the OS, Version of After Effects, Project settings, Export settings and the file format that you are using in After Effects. Also, if possible mention your need of exporting in Photo-Jpeg format and if you have used any working space.

           

          Regards,

           

          Vinay

          • 2. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
            tavmed Level 1

            Hi Vinay,  I will try to give all the info I can here...

             

            Computer specs:

            Mac Pro 6,1 (Late 2013)

            Operating System:

            OSX Yosemite 10.10.3

            Software version:

            After Effects CC Version 12.2.1.5

            Output Settings:

            QuickTime Photo - JPEG

            Channels: RGB

            Depth: Millions of colors

            Color: Premultiplied (Matted)

            Color Management: Nothing checked

            Convert to Linear light is off

            Format Options:

            Quality 90 (also tried 100)

            Under Codec settings, everything is unchecked

            Project settings Depth 16 bits

            Working Space: None

            nothing else checked

            Composition settings for Photo - JPEG output:

            1998x1080 (delivery spec for the show I am on, resolution seems not to be a factor)

            Square pixels

            frame rate 23.976

            The Photo - JPEG codec is one of the two quicktime codecs that are part of the delivery specifications of the show I am on.  It is used in VFX reviews in a theater where it is projected on a large screen.  In all, I submit three items when I do a shot, a 10 bit DPX sequence, then I use that sequence to generate a 1920x1080 Avid DNxHD to go into the Avid, and the Photo - JPEG quicktime for VFX review.  The Photo - JPEG quicktimes generated in After Effects do not match the comps' colors when imported back into the comp from which it was created.  the colors are off slightly, just like in "eyeingasia's" example in this thread with the pictures of the leafs.  This is a noticeable issue in the VFX reviews as well as in the AVIDs, only with the Photo - JPEGs.  This issue is not occurring with submissions from any other vendors of which we are using over a dozen.  Other artists in my department using Nuke are not experiencing this, this issue been narrowed down to After Effects generated Photo - JPEG codec quicktimes exclusively.  After trying everything my knowledge and time allow, the only conclusion I am able to come to is that the issue is with After Effects’ quicktime encoder.  Some people at Universal Studios did some digging around and said it looks like AE is embedding a Rec709 YUV profile in the quicktime render.  We did several tests using the "MarcieHead" among other images.  All images are raw, no CDL, no LUTS, no color profiles added, pure color in and out.

            • 3. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
              Vinay Dwivedi Adobe Employee

              Hi Clyde,

               

              Thanks for all the information. Is it possible to post any screenshot of the difference that you notice?

               

              Regards,

               

              Vinay

              • 4. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                tavmed Level 1

                I have 3 jpegs of Marcie here.

                File One "File_one_marcie_from comp.jpg" is the image as it appears in the comp, exactly as it appears in the source file.

                File Two "File_two_marcie_from_photo-jpeg.jpg" is a jpeg output of the photo-jpeg requicktime render that was created from File One.  You will notice the most difference in reds and greens, particularly on the Kodak logo and in the leaves above Marcie's head

                File Three "File_three_marcie_checkerboard_overlay.jpg" is a comp of file to over file one, I used a checkerboard as a track matte to reveal the differences.  Look at the Kodak logo, The photo-jpeg is darker in the reds and lighter in the greens, "the leaves above Marcie's head.

                 

                File_one_marcie_from comp.jpg

                File_two_marcie_from_photo-jpeg.jpg

                File_three_marcie_checkerboard_overlay.jpg

                • 5. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                  Vinay Dwivedi Adobe Employee

                  Hi Clyde,

                   

                  Yes, I can see the difference. Let me try to figure this out and check what is the cause of it.

                   

                  Regards,

                   

                  Vinay

                  • 6. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                    tavmed Level 1

                    Thank you Vinay, I really appreciate your help and look forward to hearing what you find.

                     

                    Clyde

                    • 7. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                      Vinay Dwivedi Adobe Employee

                      Hi Clyde,

                       

                      Please send me the screenshot of your QuickTime codecs that are installed or present in below locations so that I can see all the codecs installed. Also mention if you have Final Cut Pro, Avid or Compressor installed on your machine

                       

                      MAC HD or Start up drive>Library>QuickTime

                      MAC HD or Start up drive>System>Quicktime

                       

                      Regards,

                       

                      Vinay

                      • 8. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                        tavmed Level 1

                        I have Compressor 4.2 and Final Cut Pro X 10.2

                         

                        Here are the screenshots:

                         

                        MAC HD:Library:Quicktime.png

                        MAC HD:System:Quicktime.png

                        • 9. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                          tavmed Level 1

                          The DPX frames which were used to create the quicktimes were rendered from a composition in After Effects.  That composition was created using DPX frames from Technicolor which were made from Alexa footage.  If I render a jpeg sequence from the DPX files the color is a perfect match to the DPXs used to create them, only in the Photo - JPEG quicktime do the colors change.

                          • 10. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                            Vinay Dwivedi Adobe Employee

                            Hi Clyde,

                             

                            Thanks for the details. Please mention the settings, if you remember, used to export the DPX/Cineon sequence. As by default the  it is always set to HDTV REC-709 16-235. Have you made any changes to it?

                             

                            Regards,

                             

                            Vinay

                            • 11. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                              tavmed Level 1

                              I use a custom DPX output setting, here are a couple of screenshots of the settings.  Let me know if this is not what you were wanting to see...

                               

                              DPX-output settings.png

                              DPX-output color settings.png

                              • 12. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                tavmed Level 1

                                Hi Vinay,  I just removed all the quicktime components from Mac HD/Library/quicktime and tried another render, the results were the same.

                                 

                                Clyde

                                • 13. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                  Vinay Dwivedi Adobe Employee

                                  Hi Clyde,

                                   

                                  Please check the screenshot and mention have you checked the option "use display color management" while exporting to DPX?

                                  Working space.PNG

                                   

                                  //Vinay

                                  • 14. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                    tavmed Level 1

                                    Hi Vinay, I don't have Use display color management checked in my settings.

                                     

                                    color management.png

                                    • 15. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                      tavmed Level 1

                                      I just opened one of the photo-jpeg quicktimes in Final Cut Pro X and looked at the extended info and saw that the Color Profile is HD (1-1-1).  I did some research and saw that seems to be the Rec709 color profile for HD video.  Could the introduction of this be what may be causing the color difference?

                                      • 16. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                        Vinay Dwivedi Adobe Employee

                                        Hi Clyde,

                                         

                                        Yes, it may be the reason for the color shift. Try this:

                                         

                                        1. Choose a Working space option in your Project settings to be REC 709 16-235.

                                        2. Go to output module and change the Format to DPX/Cineon

                                        3. Go to Color Management tab and check if REC-709 is set to output profile.

                                        4. Once done export this DPX file to Photo-Jpeg and check the results.

                                         

                                        Regards,

                                         

                                        Vinay

                                        • 17. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                          tavmed Level 1

                                          Another interesting find, opening a photo-jpeg quicktime that was generated in Nuke that has the correct color will show color profile (1-2-6) in Final Cut Pros 's Extended info opposed to the file generated in After Effects which shows color profile HD (1-1-1).

                                          • 18. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                            tavmed Level 1

                                            Hi Vinay, the same results only relative, when I remove the projects color profile, the results are exactly the same.  Have you tried to render the Marcie head as a qphoto-jpeg quicktime and gotten the same results?

                                            • 19. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                              Vinay Dwivedi Adobe Employee

                                              Hi Clyde,

                                               

                                              Can you E-mail me the DPX sequence that you hace created or the After Effects comp that you exported to DPX and then to Photo-Jpeg?

                                               

                                              Regards,

                                               

                                              Vinay

                                              • 20. Re: Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                tavmed Level 1

                                                Couldn't post it so I zipped the one frame I used to make the quicktimes...

                                                • 21. Re: Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                  Vinay Dwivedi Adobe Employee

                                                  Thanks and I will keep you posted regarding this issue.

                                                   

                                                  //Vinay

                                                  • 22. Re: Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                    tavmed Level 1

                                                    Hi Vinay,

                                                     

                                                    This may help more, it's the After Effects project with the actual Marcie DPX source file, the DPX render that was made from it and the photo-jpeg quicktime that it was used to create.

                                                    • 23. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                      Vinay Dwivedi Adobe Employee

                                                      Hi Clyde,

                                                       

                                                      Please send me the settings that you have chosen while creating the composition.

                                                       

                                                      Regards,

                                                       

                                                      Vinay

                                                      • 24. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                        tavmed Level 1

                                                        Hi Vinay,

                                                         

                                                        I sent you the project yesterday, not sure if you got it but here ia a screen grab of the composition settings of the photo-jpeg comp and the render settings of the photo-jpeg output and of the project settings as well.  It is basic quicktime with Photo-Jpeg codec, no looks applied.  I found that After Effects is absolutely embedding a REC 709 color in the Photo-Jpeg quicktime, this is what is causing the colors to be differ from it's source image.  We discovered this by taking a photo-jpeg codec quicktime render of the same image that was created in Nuke (that matched the source that it was created from perfectly) and added a REC 709 tag and it matched the After Effects Photo-Jpeg render perfectly.  So After Effects is definitely adding REC709 to the Photo-Jpeg quicktime.

                                                         

                                                        The bottom line is that After Effects is automatically adding REC709 to it's Photo-Jpeg quicktime renders.  I cannot find any way to turn this off or to tell After Effects not to add any color signature to this codec, I have gone through every setting and checked what my options are and there is no way to tell After Effects to not add REC709 to a Photo-Jpeg quicktime.  All my settings are the same as they have always been, absolutely no workspace color added in the project's color settings.

                                                         

                                                        The REC709 codec is not being added to any other quicktime codec only the Photo-Jpeg.  Is there a way to edit the quicktime encoder in After Effects and tell it not to add REC709?

                                                        render settings-phot-jpeg.png

                                                        comp settings-photo-jpeg comp.png

                                                        Project settings.png

                                                        • 25. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                          tavmed Level 1

                                                          Hi Vinay, have you been able to reproduce this issue?  If you open after effects and create a comp using the Marcie image I sent you or any image you want, render it as a quicktime with the Photo-Jpeg setting and bring it back in and compare it to the image in the comp, you will see a color difference.  Is this happening on your end?

                                                          • 26. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                            Vinay Dwivedi Adobe Employee

                                                            Hi Clyde,

                                                             

                                                            Have you tried changing the depth to 32 bit bpc as it is set to 16 bit and Nuke and other VFX have 32 bit set as default as per my little knowledge about them, Please try it once and I haven't received your comps yet to test. I will PM you my E-mail address once again.

                                                             

                                                            //Vinay

                                                            • 27. Re: Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                              tavmed Level 1

                                                              Hi Vinay,  Here is the project.

                                                              • 28. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                                tavmed Level 1

                                                                Just tried that again, same results.  It still adds REC709 to the image.  Seems to do that no matter what settings I use.  I just emailed you the zipped project again.  it's approx 9mb

                                                                • 29. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                                  Vinay Dwivedi Adobe Employee

                                                                  I got the files let me test them now and replicate.

                                                                   

                                                                  //Vinay

                                                                  • 30. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                                    Vinay Dwivedi Adobe Employee

                                                                    Hi Clyde,

                                                                     

                                                                    Unfortunately I was unable to find any workaround or any format that can provide you the desired results with color. Hence, logged a BUG against it and reported it to the product team. Till the time let me check out some more tests and formats that can provide you the correct color values.


                                                                    Is there any specific reason that you need Photo-Jpeg codec? as I tried QuickTime>Gopro Cineform RGB 12 Bit with Alpha codec and got no color shift in the rendered movie.

                                                                    You have to Add the DPX composition into Media Encoder to try it and check the color values.

                                                                     

                                                                    //VInay

                                                                    • 31. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                                      tavmed Level 1

                                                                      Hi Vinay, yes, I am a visual effects compositor for Marvel Studios and every shot I do must be submitted in 3 formats, DPX sequence, Avid DNxHD (for the vfx editors to cut into the film) and Photo-Jpeg which are used in the visual effects reviews along with the DPXs.  That's the way it is done on every film here, over a dozen vendors from around the world, the biggest and best visual effects companies you will find, they, and I must submit a Photo-Jpeg quicktime for every shot we do.  Literally hundreds of Photo-Jpegs are submitted to us on a daily basis.  None of them have any issues except the ones that come from After Effects so I'm afraid that both After Effects and I as an employee at Marvel have been made to look a bit unprofessional because of this.   It is absolutely crucial that there be no foreign color, looks, LUTS or anything else that alters the picture added to any of these files.  This has not always been an issue, this BUG must have been introduced recently, I will be sure to double check everything I do from now on, I am use to the process of quicktimes being reliable and have not had any reason to worry about it until now.  That's why I was shocked and embarrassed to learn that After Effects was adding a "look" (REC709) colorspace tag 1.1.1 to the Photo-Jpeg quicktimes.  The difference is subtle but noticeable and completely unacceptable.  You can imagine what it was like when the Adobe agent "Sarthak" I spoke to in a Adobe support chat session on the 12th responded with "Well then may be it cannot be done in after effects; I am sorry".   I asked to speak to someone who may be able to help and his suggestion was to post my issue on this board.  Glad I did because you actually are doing something about it.  To work around the issue until this bug is fixed I have been rendering out jpeg sequences of each shot, then opening them in quicktime 7 and exporting them back out as photo-jpeg quicktimes.  This has worked fine because it doesn't add any colors like After Effects does.  This is also a lot of extra steps.   I was wondering if there may be an editable script somewhere in After Effects preferences that might be adding the color, I know how to edit some other broken things like import frame rate and aspect ratio by editing the preferences, is there a place I can find the quicktime encoding preferences? 

                                                                      • 32. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                                        Vinay Dwivedi Adobe Employee

                                                                        Hi Clyde,

                                                                         

                                                                        I have send you PM regarding this please check.

                                                                         

                                                                        //Vinay

                                                                        • 33. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                                          tavmed Level 1

                                                                          Hi Vinay, still no luck after 30 or so tests.  Any luck on your end finding out what I need to change in the MediaCore QTCodec Rules CC.xml or if that's even what I need to do?

                                                                          • 34. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                                            tavmed Level 1

                                                                            Hi Vinay, It looks like there are no MediaCore codec rules in the rules XML for After Effects which may be why Photo-Jpeg quicktimes are being encoded with a color profile (gamma tag)?  I looked everywhere for the four CC codec code for photo-jpeg and only found motion jpeg four cc codes.  Since this isn't my area of expertise, I may be going down the wrong road entirely but this is where all other roads have taken me.  I am hoping there is a simple line of code I can add to the MediaCoreQTCodecCC.XML that will tell After Effects NOT to tag the Photo-Jpeg quicktime codec with gamma or any other color.  Any way you can shed some light on this for me Vinay? or does Adobe have people that can help out in this area?

                                                                             

                                                                            Thanks,

                                                                            Clyde

                                                                            • 35. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                                              tavmed Level 1

                                                                              Upon re-reading my last post it came across as possibly unclear, I want to re-post to clarify:  The MardiaCoreQTCodecRulesCC.XML has no codec rule for Phot-Jpeg.  There are hundreds of rules and even a jpeg rule but no photo jpeg rule.  Is there a code/rule I can add to tell After Effects not to add any color at all when it encodes a photo-jpeg quicktime specifically?

                                                                              • 36. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                                                Vinay Dwivedi Adobe Employee

                                                                                Hi Clyde,

                                                                                 

                                                                                I'm still working on it and unfortunately couldn't found a way to do so. I have tested many steps but none of them works means all the color profiles and all the possible combinations in the render window.

                                                                                I will let you know about this once I will figure it out.

                                                                                 

                                                                                //Vinay

                                                                                • 37. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                                                  tavmed Level 1

                                                                                  Hi Vinay, Since it's been almost three weeks since I checked in I was hoping maybe you or someone at Adobe might have an answer for me on this.  If not can you tell me when/if I can expect someone to help out with this bug?

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Thanks, Clyde

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                                                    mzanet Level 1

                                                                                    Hi Vinay and Clyde,

                                                                                    I was struggling with the same issue, I started looking around for a solution, and ended up here.

                                                                                    This color shift problem with photo-jpg started as far as I know, in AE CC2014 version.


                                                                                    Here's test project I created in AE CC version. It's just a circle, that I rendered out using photo-jpg, and re-imported that render in the project.

                                                                                    No color shift noticeable here.


                                                                                    Dropbox - test.zip

                                                                                     

                                                                                    But, if you open this project un AE CC2014, the color shift IS there.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    And for what I saw, this REC709 profile is added to photo-jpg renders in AE CC too, with no impact when the render is re-imported there.

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                    One important thing to point out here is that, the color shift appear when render IS RE-IMPORTED in AE CC 2014. (AND of course, the main issue is, if you render it again, the new render will have now 2 different colors for the same element)

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I'm working on a pc here. (and test this on another pc too, with AE 2014 and the problem remains).

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I've been using AE and mov photo-jpg codec for the last 5 years, and never had this issue.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    So I'm hoping for a solution for this issue ASAP.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Thank you very much.

                                                                                    Marcos

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Color issue exporting Photo JPEG
                                                                                      Vinay Dwivedi Adobe Employee

                                                                                      Hi mzanet,

                                                                                       

                                                                                      At this point of time I have no resolution to it. I have tried almost all the settings in export to avoid this color shift or minimize it, but as you are aware the shift remains. I have already logged a BUG regarding this and will post if any workaround is found.

                                                                                      Thanks for posting on forums and sharing the CC project file.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Regards,

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Vinay

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