6 Replies Latest reply on May 15, 2015 7:18 PM by trshaner

    Why is this high res image displaying so terribly?

    eza_mck

      Hey there!

      I am hoping someone can help me, this is kind of a windows vs PC kind of question, but desperate for some help!

      I recently shot a beautiful wedding, on a rather sad and rainy day and in order to still capture the beautiful softness (without harsh flash) I made the decision to shoot with a slightly higher ISO for the bridal portraits at the beginning of the day. Not a terribly high ISO I have shot higher before with no issue.

       

      however on proofing on a PC screen some images display HORRIBLY!! SEE HERE: http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a189/eza_mck/16129406-BC67-412D-AB1E-96F4D54E5C11.jpg

       

      This is the worst example of the bunch, but so you know this example is the exact same file, exact same scale ... What the?!

       

      Anyways, there is definitely grain in this image, I will own that for sure! but it displays beautifully on Mac, but TERRIBLY on windows slideshow ... It is so terrible in fact that I do not want my clients to have to view their images like this any help would be amazing!!

       

      i shoot with a D800, file sizes are ridiculous, so I have to compress to under 5mb so clients can use the high res at photo labs, should I be trying a different method of export on lightroom to stop PC slideshow from compressing this image to an absolute disgusting scale! Haha or is this unfixable! ps. The smaller versions of this image display perfectly on windows and mac, but I would love high res and low res to both look nice on all devices


      thank you SO much for your help!!





        • 1. Re: Why is this high res image displaying so terribly?
          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          So it's easier for others to see what you're talking about, I am pasting the image directly into the message instead of having to go to a link to see it:

          You probably need to add some Luminance noise-reduction to the images--the default is none, and make them smaller for online posting, or is this what you say you're doing?  And if you want more help with this please describe your settings of the Detail panel section in LR and what your Export settings are, or are you saying this is the view in the Slideshow module in LR?  It's unclear how these images are being produced and what size they are, in pixels, not MB.

           

          Are these view you've posted from Lightroom, or some Windows and Mac program, or from a browser looking at an online gallery or what?

          • 2. Re: Why is this high res image displaying so terribly?
            eza_mck Level 1

            Thank you ssprengel! Very helpful

             

            I have added luminance to images where I can, this image for example already has a level 26 luminance, and I don't want to add much more or it will make the images look too soft.

            I give my clients two file sizes for convinience of use 

            1. Web ready (1000 pixels on the longest edge) and

            2. High res, which are full size in terms of dimensions (4912x7360) but compressed to under 5000k (5mb) for lab compatibility

             

            Pictured below is my standard high res export settings, so that clients high res images are lab ready. I have tried removing the sharpening setting, but that hasn't changed it enough to make a noticeable difference.

             

            ISO was 1250 on the original RAW image, and I did pull up some shadows which may explain the grain, but the thing that is confusing me is the massive disparity between Mac preview and PC slideshow .. its pretty disturbing! Its awful to think that clients would see such difference in quality device to device.

             

            Again the web sized images display perfectly on PC, but it would be nice to find a way to have these images display as nicely on PC as they do Mac

             

            These views are direct screen shots from PC and mac both in slideshows, one in windows slideshow, the other mac preview and then I have moved them both onto a photoshop document to directly compare them. But this is exactly as I see them on each monitor

             

            I am completely baffled, and totally exhausted! I have been exporting images for days trying to test this ... and I dont know if I will ever find a resolution for these wonderful clients

             

            Screen Shot 2015-05-15 at 10.21.31 pm.png

            • 3. Re: Why is this high res image displaying so terribly?
              eza_mck Level 1

              So unless someone has a better idea, I have done a new export for the client: 8x12 at 240ppi with no sharpening. this setting displays beautifully in slideshow on PC AND Mac  - I will give them the high res with instructions that they are for print only, but it seems PC slideshow cannot handle high res images with grain because of the compression for viewing or something?! Very odd

               

              i guess it's comparible with seeing someone wear a tight patterned shirt on TV it goes all funny, that's pretty much what it appears is happening (in understandable terms) with these images ...

              • 4. Re: Why is this high res image displaying so terribly?
                trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                eza_mck wrote:

                I have added luminance to images where I can, this image for example already has a level 26 luminance, and I don't want to add much more or it will make the images look too soft.

                 

                ISO was 1250 on the original RAW image, and I did pull up some shadows which may explain the grain

                I'm not sure were to start since there appear to many issues at work here!

                 

                An ISO 1250 image file with +1 EV push is equivalent to ISO 2500. The first issue is using high Sharpening settings and/or too low Luminance Noise Reduction settings as discussed in another post today:

                 

                https://forums.adobe.com/message/7548429#7548429

                 

                eza_mck wrote:

                 

                2. High res, which are full size in terms of dimensions (4912x7360) but compressed to under 5000k (5mb) for lab compatibility

                Using JPEG 'Limit File Size' of 5,000 KB is going to cause issue with this large image size (36 Mp). JEPG compression algorithms take "like areas in the image" and reduce the data. With high noise in the image these "like image" areas" no longer compress efficiently, forcing the LR 'Limit File Size' tool to use a very Low Quality setting. See here for more info: http://regex.info/blog/lightroom-goodies/jpeg-quality

                 

                This creates visible compression artifacts in the JPEG image file. Based on results in the above article a better choice would be to use an Export Quality setting of 75 and no lower.

                 

                "The Lightroom default JPEG export quality of 75, falling in the  70〜76  range, seems to provide for as good a visible result as the highest quality setting........Those who blindly use the maximum setting for their exports likely waste a lot of local disk space, upload bandwidth, and remote storage space. But conversely, those who blindly use some lesser setting risk posterization in the occasional photo with an unlucky sky gradient."

                 

                eza_mck wrote:

                 

                These views are direct screen shots from PC and mac both in slideshows, one in windows slideshow, the other mac preview and then I have moved them both onto a photoshop document to directly compare them. But this is exactly as I see them on each monitor.

                I am equally baffled as well. Please proved a detailed explanation as what file you are viewing and in what application on the PC and ditto on the Mac. Clearly they aren't the same!

                • 5. Re: Why is this high res image displaying so terribly?
                  eza_mck Level 1

                   

                  trshaner wrote:

                   

                   

                  Using JPEG 'Limit File Size' of 5,000 KB is going to cause issue with this large image size (36 Mp). JEPG compression algorithms take "like areas in the image" and reduce the data. With high noise in the image these "like image" areas" no longer compress efficiently, forcing the LR 'Limit File Size' tool to use a very Low Quality setting. See here for more info: http://regex.info/blog/lightroom-goodies/jpeg-quality

                   

                  This creates visible compression artifacts in the JPEG image file. Based on results in the above article a better choice would be to use an Export Quality setting of 75 and no lower.

                  Thank you  so much!! And all makes complete sense! There is definitely grain for all of the above reasons which is totally understandable! But the real concern Is the definite MASSIVE disparity between what I see from the exact same file on two different monitors/operating systems as honestly it is 100% the same image that I am looking at on those two screens as shown above. Haha whicy is completely baffling right?! Haha

                   

                  i have tried exporting in the way you mentioned above lowering the quality rather than dropping the mb size, and to be honest it makes no difference, anything larger than say 3000 pixels on the largest size shows up on PC only with a lot of noise. The noise stops once you drop the file dimensions down to approx 2400pixels (or an 8x12 crop (not at my computer to check exact pixels so don't quote me on that one hehe)

                   

                  trshaner wrote:

                  I am equally baffled as well. Please proved a detailed explanation as what file you are viewing and in what application on the PC and ditto on the Mac. Clearly they aren't the same!

                  Haha! Yep! Seriously 100% the same file haha I can only assume that windows slideshow sharpens images for viewing in its own way, so that anything with grain appears extra grainy, or it may also compress files for slide viewing, which ontop of all of that other compression, just confuses the pixels

                   

                  I am viewing the  exported jpegs (tried multiple export settings, including your recommendation above)

                  this particular image was exported as I mentioned earlier to 5mb (which to date hasn't caused any issues like this) Viewed on PC In windows slideshow as I like to proof on devices that I know my clients are likely to utelise. I did a print screen of exactly what was on monitor. The other view is straight from a comparible programme on the Mac - I utelised preview I took a screen grab with that, and then I transferred the image from the PC to my Mac and put them next to each other on photoshop for comparison, but looking monitor to monitor this is the exact difference of what I see computer to computer!

                   

                  I Must make mention I ONLY see this when I am on PC slideshow in full screen mode when in nornal screen mode it appears fine - but let's be honest, it's TERRIBLE haha! I don't want my clients having to see them in this way


                  I have found a solution, that will make it super easy for clients to avoid seeibg this level of grain -I will give them 3 different files

                  1. high res (for print only)

                  2. web + preview ready (these show beautifully in slideshow)

                  3. 8x12 scaled images  (that are both smaller print and preview ready) - to gift to family members

                   

                  a bit of a pain, but as long as I can find a solution for them so that they don't have to see itntjat badly! And I guess from now on i will be far more cautious with ISO and maybe use more flash, it was a pretty extraordinary low light day though, and it was mainly the bridal prep in their low lit chalet. There is only a selection like this as where I could I didn't need to bring up the brightness so much

                   

                  Thank you so much for taking the time to be so detailed in your explanation!

                  • 6. Re: Why is this high res image displaying so terribly?
                    trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Can you post one of the raw files with this issue to a file sharing site such as Dropbox? It can be ANY file that exhibits the issue..