10 Replies Latest reply on May 22, 2015 12:17 PM by johnrellis

    Lightroom Picks Wrong Keyword from Keyword List Hierachy

    michaelh13959890

      I have a keyword list that I have imported into Lightroom.

      I am currently keywording a photo of fresh ripe peas so I type in 'ripe' in 'Enter Keywords'.

      I am presented with 2 options: 'Ripe' (a place in East Sussex) and 'ripe' (listed under Concepts). Whichever of the two I choose, Lightroom adds the keywords 'Ripe, East Sussex, England'. This is obviously not what I want.

       

      Is this a bug in Lightroom?

       

      I am a Lightroom newbie so be patient with me!

       

      Cheers,

      Mike.

        • 1. Re: Lightroom Picks Wrong Keyword from Keyword List Hierachy
          johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

          Yes, it's a bug -- I'll file a bug report.

           

          You can work around this in two ways:

           

          1. Capitalize the Concepts > ripe keyword by double-clicking it in the Keyword List pane and changing it to "Ripe".  Now when you start typing "ripe" in the Keywording panel, you'll be presented with two options:

          Screen Shot 2015-05-17 at 4.18.22 PM.png

          LR is supposed to always use the fully qualified version of a hierarchical keyword when there is more than one keyword with the same leaf name, but it's clearly getting confused by the different cases "Ripe" and "ripe".

           

          2. Type the qualified versions of the keywords in the Keywording panel: "ripe < concepts" or "ripe < east sussex".  The disadvantage of this option is that LR won't show you the parents of the keywords in the Keywording panels as it should (and as it will with option 1).

          • 3. Re: Lightroom Picks Wrong Keyword from Keyword List Hierachy
            michaelh13959890 Level 1

            Thanks for this John. I'm amazed I've managed to find a bug after 3 weeks of use in software Adobe has been developing for the last 10 years! Glad to help though and I've +1'd the bug on Get Satisfaction.

             

            A couple more things:

            • I have imported a lot of images that already have keywords in their metadata. When I look at the keywords for these images in Lightroom, Lightroom has chosen a keyword from my keyword list, that it thinks matches my meta keyword - sometimes it picks the wrong keyword from the hierarchy, so I have to check through each image individually to make sure has picked the right one, which is pretty annoying when you have 100s of images!
            • The other problem is that these imported images with embedded keywords are also assigned my keyword categories which are marked as 'exclude on export' so a photo of Dumfries now contains correct keywords from the hierarchy 'Dumfries, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland, UK' but also unwanted category names such as 'WHERE, PLACES'. The only way I have found to get rid of this is to export the images into another folder, unticking 'Write Keywords as Lightroom Hierarchy' (I'm not sure what this does anyway!), this is OK but not so desirable for jpeg images (before I found the joys of RAW!) that have to be resaved.


            Thanks again,

            Mike.

            • 4. Re: Lightroom Picks Wrong Keyword from Keyword List Hierachy
              johnrellis Most Valuable Participant
              I have imported a lot of images that already have keywords in their metadata. When I look at the keywords for these images in Lightroom, Lightroom has chosen a keyword from my keyword list, that it thinks matches my meta keyword - sometimes it picks the wrong keyword from the hierarchy

              Is this happening with keywords whose name occurs in more than one place in the hierarchy?  E.g. People > Ellis > John and People > Smith > John?  I can't think of any way to make the process of manual inspection after import any smoother.

              • 5. Re: Lightroom Picks Wrong Keyword from Keyword List Hierachy
                johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                The other problem is that these imported images with embedded keywords are also assigned my keyword categories which are marked as 'exclude on export' so a photo of Dumfries now contains correct keywords from the hierarchy 'Dumfries, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland, UK' but also unwanted category names such as 'WHERE, PLACES'. The only way I have found to get rid of this is to export the images into another folder, unticking 'Write Keywords as Lightroom Hierarchy' (I'm not sure what this does anyway!), this is OK but not so desirable for jpeg images (before I found the joys of RAW!) that have to be resaved.

                LR is inconsistent in its options for controlling what gets written to the cataloged images and what gets written to exported/published copies.  But LR's general design is that you're the only one who sees the cataloged images directly -- if you want to share an image, you do so via export/publish.  (I'm not justifying the design, just explaining it.)

                 

                The Write Keywords As Lightroom Hierarchy option writes a hierarchical form of the keywords into an Adobe-specific metadata field, XMP:HierarchicalSubject.  So instead of writing "John", it writes a form of People > Ellis > John.  This ensures that the hierarchy is unambiguously recorded.    The option controls whether that field is written on export, whereas it is always saved to cataloged images.  That's a good thing, in my opinion, since the metadata saved in cataloged images is your last defense against an unbacked-up catalog failure.

                • 6. Re: Lightroom Picks Wrong Keyword from Keyword List Hierachy
                  johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                  [Hit send too quickly.]

                   

                  The keyword option Exclude On Export only applies to exported files.   But the keyword option Export Containing Keywords applies both to exported files and cataloged images -- go figure.  You might be tempted to turn off Export Containing Keywords on all your leaf keywords, until you find out there is no supported way (via LR or a plugin using supported plugin methods) to batch-edit keywords. 

                  • 7. Re: Lightroom Picks Wrong Keyword from Keyword List Hierachy
                    michaelh13959890 Level 1

                    Thanks for the in depth response. So basically the best way to do it is to export the photos?

                     

                    I wondered with regard to Lightroom picking keywords from the hierarchy for you (when there are duplicate words with different parents) whether it would be better if Lightroom could alert you of this, either on import or as a flag in the thumbnail (like it does when there is an error saving metadata)? Just an idea (my day job is a Product Development Manager for a software company so I can't help finding bugs and trying to think of solutions)!

                     

                    Thanks,

                    Mike.

                    • 8. Re: Lightroom Picks Wrong Keyword from Keyword List Hierachy
                      johnrellis Most Valuable Participant
                      I wondered with regard to Lightroom picking keywords from the hierarchy for you (when there are duplicate words with different parents) whether it would be better if Lightroom could alert you of this, either on import or as a flag in the thumbnail (like it does when there is an error saving metadata)?

                      LR normally does that.  In the Keywording panel, it will include the parents for otherwise ambiguous keywords.  E.g. it will display Ripe < East Sussex or Ripe < Concepts -- in my opinion, that's a pretty good flag. It's only when the keywords differ in case that it doesn't do that (a bug).

                      • 9. Re: Lightroom Picks Wrong Keyword from Keyword List Hierachy
                        michaelh13959890 Level 1

                        Hi John,

                        Sorry, I meant when you import images that already have keywords in their metadata (written with another program) it will just choose the one it thinks matches from the hierarchy rather than giving you a choice.