12 Replies Latest reply on Jun 1, 2015 1:26 PM by ECBowen

    New workstation - wrong memory (Vengeance instead of Ripjaws) - send back?

    FuelMe Level 1

      Hi everyone, I just received my custom ordered editing workstation. Before I start testing and adding my own storage drives I wonder if I need to send the whole thing back right away: instead of the ordered GSkill Ripjaw 4 (@2666 Ghz; 64GB), the builder put in Corsair Vengeance (@2666 Ghz; 64GB). The problem with that is that the Ripjaws have better (lower) timings at 15-15-15-35 whereas the Vengeance sticks have 15-17-17-35 timings, so quite a bit higher. The cost of each is the same so I assume the builder just thought it's fine to swap one out with another without telling me first.

      This workstation is expensive and carefully put together to get maximum editing experience. It's for work only, there will be no gaming at all. I need to make sure my config is just about as good as it gets for the money. If it's not, I will have to send the whole thing back.

      This system will be for editing and color correction only, mostly AVCHD source material. I plan on taking on clients with 4K footage in the future as well.

      So if you have some data on which memory is better working with Premiere Pro CC 2014+, please chime in.

       

      Core I-7 5960X (Octa core; probably need to overclock)

      Corsair Vengeange 2666, 64 GB (<---- problem?)

      NVIDIA GTX Titan X

      Asus Rampage V Extreme

      SanDisk X-300 256 Gb boot/OS (<--- will swap out for Sammy 850 Evo Pro )

      Plan on adding 6+ other SSDs for scratches, previews, project files, raw content, deliverables, etc.

       

      Your input is appreciated!

      Thanks!

        • 1. Re: New workstation - wrong memory (Vengeance instead of Ripjaws) - send back?
          ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

          The problem with the timings is not necessarily the latency which is relatively marginal for DDR4 so the difference would not that much. The problem is those timings point to Corsair using a manufacturer ie Dram chip fab that is constantly problematic with compatibility and reliability. Very few outside of Dram manufacturing know the fingerprints that point to what chips are in each dram module. I can tell you likely who those are but I don't like to name and shame manufacturers. What I can say is we wont ever use them again and I would avoid any dram modules where the first 3 timings are different like they are on those Corsair sticks ie 15 17 17. If you want the most recommended stable ram chips then ensure they are the same such as the Gskill 15 15 15. CL 15 is Jedec spec for DDR4 2133 so it's ideally what you want anyway. Jedec is the organization that standardizes all aspects of memory. Whether you return them is up to you but I would not use those Corsair modules.

           

          Eric

          ADK

          • 2. Re: New workstation - wrong memory (Vengeance instead of Ripjaws) - send back?
            JEShort01 Level 4

            Agree with Eric, do NOT accept that substitution.

             

            Hopefully though you can negotiate a RAM swap rather than sending the whole system back and keep moving forward with your system!

             

            Changing out RAM sticks is really pretty easy and shipping or driving the whole PC back (don't know how you received the system) may not be necessary.

             

            Good luck!

             

            Jim

            • 3. Re: New workstation - wrong memory (Vengeance instead of Ripjaws) - send back?
              FuelMe Level 1

              Thanks Eric, that's precisely what my research found too. Oh what a disappointment, I got this incredible system right here and now it looks like I need to start RMAing things, or like Jim suggests, at least get a RAM swap happening.

              Thank you both for your input.

              • 4. Re: New workstation - wrong memory (Vengeance instead of Ripjaws) - send back?
                alexdejesus Level 1

                Thanks for clarifying that, Eric. I had the same question and that's not the kind of thing anyone would know except with a lot of testing. I have 64 GB of that same Corsair RAM and my system is anything but stable

                 

                The other question I have about FuelMe's system is the GPU. With my Intel i7-5960X and X99E-WS board I chose the EVGA GTX 980 FTW instead of the Titan, and I have an identical GPU in another machine I use for live streaming gigs. I figure I can double up whenever I need to do some heavier editing.

                • 5. Re: New workstation - wrong memory (Vengeance instead of Ripjaws) - send back?
                  FuelMe Level 1

                  I have the new system now and have to honestly say that at this point I see very little difference with the Titan X compared to running a GTX 780 plus GTX 680 together. Maybe I would see greater gains with a different file format (almost all AVCHD) or different workflow, but as is I would say this $1000 GPU is pretty much a waste.

                   

                  BTW, I was able to RMA the memory to the computer system builder, and found a deal on the G.Skills I need from Newegg, so in the end I actually saved some money. I'm very happy with the memory.

                  • 6. Re: New workstation - wrong memory (Vengeance instead of Ripjaws) - send back?
                    alexdejesus Level 1

                    I understood that both GPUs should be identical, i.e., two GTX 780s or two GTX 980s preferably. But if you got better results with a mismatched set of GPUs over a Titan, then that says something.

                     

                    I have two systems, with a single GTX 980 in each. When I upgrade my PSU to 1,000 W or more, I will try putting both into one system to see how it goes.

                     

                    Glad the new memory works. I also considered the Crucial, but too late to return the Corsairs

                    • 7. Re: New workstation - wrong memory (Vengeance instead of Ripjaws) - send back?
                      FuelMe Level 1

                      I wouldn't say the two different GPUs gave better result than the Titan X, but the Titan X just was not significantly better. I also ran that same machine with just the 780 for a while, and it wasn't significantly worse than running 780 + 680.

                       

                      So in summary I had the following setups:

                       

                      Workstation 1 (old)

                       

                      Core I-7  3930K

                      32 Gb DDR 3 G.Skill Ripjaws (I don't recall the speed or timings)

                      Asus Rampage IV

                       

                      6 different SSDs for OS/scratches/ raw files/ finals/ misc (different brands and speeds such as GT Force, Samsung Evo and Evo Pro, Crucial)

                       

                      Setup 1: GTX 780

                      Setup 2 GTX 780 + GTX 680

                      Setup 3: GTX Titan X

                       

                      Little to very little difference in performance during editing and color correction between the different GPUs. Encoding times are a bit faster with the dual GPUs compared to just running the 780 by itself,  and a tiny bit faster (subjectively at least) than the dual GPUs with the Titan X. We're talking savings of maybe 2-3 minutes on a 45 minute encode. I didn't time this every time.

                       

                      Several bugs and stability problems with Premiere that I expected to go away with the different/better GPUs persisted.

                       

                      Workstation 2

                       

                      Core I-7 5960X

                      64 GB DDR 4 G.Skill Ripjaws 2133

                      Asus Rampage V

                      Titan X (Superclocked)

                      6 different SSDs for OS/scratches/ raw files/ finals/ misc (all Samsung Evo and Evo Pro)

                       

                      I did do some editing and encoding with the 5960X  both overclocked and  at stock speeds. I'm still re-familiarizing myself with overclocking and must be doing something wrong because despite being clocked at a stable 4.4 Ghz, there is very little difference in performance during editing. Encoding is faster, however. I can't keep the 5960X stay overclocked during editing, it only ramps up to 4.4 Ghz during encoding.

                       

                      At stock speeds, Workstation 2 is, as expected, faster and a little bit smoother during editing, color correction, and encoding compared to Workstation 1. However the difference between Workstation 1 and Workstation 2 is surprisingly small considering #1 is over 3 years old.


                      An example of this (slightly) improved performance is having 3 or 4 tracks of AVCHD 29.97 fps (Canon) footage stacked on top, with Mercury-enabled effects such as RGB Curves and Threeway Color Corrector on each clip. On the old system, playing this timeline was usually fairly smooth. However, Scrubbing through the timeline and skipping to different parts quickly was choppy. Redrawing the timeline when zooming in and out took uncomfortably long. 

                      On this new system, this kind of timeline plays perfectly smooth at all times, scrubbing is improved but it appears that the longer the editing session, the more choppy it gets also. Redrawing is slightly faster.

                      Both systems drop audio at about the same rate.

                      Neither system is perfectly smooth during scrubbing/jumping to different parts, there are always some performance limitations.

                       

                      Several bugs and stability problems with Premiere that I expected to go away with the different/better GPUs persisted.

                       

                      Summary

                       

                      Yes the new system with the 5960X and Titan X is more stable and faster, but it's not a world of difference. Considering the cost of this setup I'm surprised by how small the difference is. I expected a much more smooth editing and color correction experience with Premiere. Editing/color correction is a bit smoother, but not perfect. Encoding is a bit faster with this new setup, but not incredibly faster.

                       

                      These are all preliminary findings and may well change as I get better at overclocking and optimizing that system.

                      • 8. Re: New workstation - wrong memory (Vengeance instead of Ripjaws) - send back?
                        ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                        Remember there are points of diminishing return based on media requirements and what GPU acceleration activity you have on the timeline. If you launch Task Manager and GPu-Z you can monitor the load the system puts on both CPU and GPU during playback. You will notice the load is lower on the new system. Also AVC media at 1080 resolution only requires 8 to 10 threads to decode ideally. Once you get beyond that the return diminishes unless you have allot of FX or activity going on in the sequence. Change the media to something that has Debayered elements and the load skyrockets especially at 4K or higher. That is when the new system will show its power. This confuses people on the new Xeon systems since often times their render times are slower with the single or Dual Xeon due to lower clock speed. However the realtime load capability of the single or Dual Xeon system far exceeds even the 8 core i7 CPU that you have provided you have enough ram to make use of all those threads and cache enough frames of data at 1 time to push the GPU's. Media Content applications are completely dynamic now in the processing and ram load besides the GPU load. No 1 sequence or workflow will tell the tale unless you use exclusively the highest processing requirement media. BTW the Titan X handles a far greater load than the 780GTX card does. Your just not really pushing the card yet.

                         

                        Eric

                        ADK

                        • 9. Re: New workstation - wrong memory (Vengeance instead of Ripjaws) - send back?
                          FuelMe Level 1

                          Correct, Eric, the load is lower - but that makes no sense because there's clearly some room for performance improvement. Also, why does the CPU ramp DOWN when using Premiere? There has got to be a way to force the CPU to stay at 4.4 Ghz or whatever the overclock is set to. But currently it doesn't.

                          Instead of having more headroom, I prefer there to be more activity from the chip, GPU, and memory.

                          I threw several different effects on it, mostly Mercury enabled ones. Oddly, non-CUDA enabled effects didn't perform all that much better than before (ok it WAS more stable but that's not saying much. To me, non-CUDA effects in Premiere are practically unusable and should be avoided if at all possible).

                          Up next will be some After Effects tests. Since I don't really use that much, any gains will be more to ease my mind that all this money spent was still at least somewhat justified, if only for After Effects tasks. So far, gotta say...not all that thrilled with this.

                          But I do thank you guys for your input on the memory, that did help tremendously!

                          • 10. Re: New workstation - wrong memory (Vengeance instead of Ripjaws) - send back?
                            ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                            The software/application ie player have some limitations for processing ie decoding certain codecs right now. Primarily these codecs are long GOP since they reference other frames. AVC codecs fall into this category. As long as those threading limitations are in place then the application wont require more processing power for those codecs when you reach the ideal point. This translates to limited performance in rendering versus what the system can truly handle if the software was not limiting the performance.

                             

                             

                            Eric

                            ADK

                            • 11. Re: New workstation - wrong memory (Vengeance instead of Ripjaws) - send back?
                              FuelMe Level 1

                              Thanks for sharing Eric. Since AVCHD is neither new nor rare, if Adobe hasn't bothered to optimize Premiere for it yet then I thin it's safe to assume they never will. I've been using Premiere Pro since version 6.5 (not CS...just version 6.5). I'm ready to jump ship if I can get better performance from a different NLE. With a system like this there's no point in keeping Premiere around for sentimental reasons if I can get better performance with different software.

                              • 12. Re: New workstation - wrong memory (Vengeance instead of Ripjaws) - send back?
                                ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                They have stated there are limitations to threading when dealing with the prediction and frame reference of Long GOP codecs. It's not as simple as optimizing code since there are so many variables here. Remember frames are dynamic data wise and they have to reference data from other variable data sets as well ie other frames. This is not an easy process to predict and split threads nor is it consistent.


                                Eric

                                ADK