12 Replies Latest reply on Jul 19, 2015 2:58 PM by john80047287

    Sharing AVCHD/MP4-NTSC DV Standard results in poor video

    john80047287

      Hi.

      I have captured DV-AVI from a Sony DCR-HC4 using PE 10.0 and performing basic editing.  I have archived the original AVI files on a hard drive and retained the tape.  My objective is to create edited video that the family can view on a computer and hopefully in a format that the kids will be able to access in the future. 

       

      I used the DV NTSC project settings when I create a new project.   I am running Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 on a 64 bit HP Pavilion with 8 GB RAM

      .  

      After research regarding CODECs/containers and future compatibility, I decided to export AVCHD. I selected Share/Computer/AVCHD/MP4-NTSC DV Standard. The problem is that the video output is not acceptable. Any sort of motion results in lines in the object that is moving.  Thin objects (such as branches) look granular.  Lines such as gaps between deck boards look granular when the camera pans.  I tried increasing the target and maximum bit rate but that did not help. 

       

      I looked into alternatives and I was able to export a good quality clip using Share/Computer/MPEG/NTSC DVD Standard.

       

      1. What settings should I use to export an MP4 file? Should I be doing anything different in my import/export process? 
      2. Should I give up on exporting MP4, continue to export MPEG files, and hope these files have a high enough probability for future compatibility. 

       

      Thank you

        • 1. Re: Sharing AVCHD/MP4-NTSC DV Standard results in poor video
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          DV AVI captured from a tape camera is Standard Definition, so I **suspect** you tried to share to a High Def setting

          • 2. Re: Sharing AVCHD/MP4-NTSC DV Standard results in poor video
            john80047287 Level 1

            Hi JTS, thank you for the quick reply.

             

            From your response, I am inferring that the answer to my questions are:

             

            1) It is not possible to export AVCHD/MP4-NTSC DV Standard from original SD 720x480 DV-AVI

            2) Share/Computer/MPEG/NTSC DVD Standard is the best option for exporting SD 720x480 DV-AVI for future viewing

             

            could you verify?

             

            thank you

            • 3. Re: Sharing AVCHD/MP4-NTSC DV Standard results in poor video
              A.T. Romano Level 7

              john80047287

               

              You should be able to export an DV AVI standard or widescreen either as MPEG2.mpg or AVCHD.mp4.

              And, you clearly state you are using the appropriate setting for AVCHD.mp4 export and your source DV AVI Standard. I am presuming all that is correct and as your wrote.

               

              Consequently your issue points to an interlace problem related to your interlaced source and export.

              Have you check the Publish+Share/Computer/AVCHD and its preset settings under the Advanced Button of the MP4 NTSC DV Standard preset.

               

              As interlace issue...

              a. In the AVCHD advanced settings, have you tried changing the Field Order from Lower Field First to Upper Field First.

              or

              b. Applying Field Option , Reverse Field Dominance to the Timeline source in the Edit area?

               

              What player are you using for the comparison of the .mpg and .mp4 exports? Have you tried the VLC player where you can set for a deinterlace method?

               

              As to your question about best option, my reply would be the one that works best for you. At this point, I am not sure why this "interlace" issue with .mp4 and not .mpg. I would need to look into that further. Do you find the problem that you describe for all your DV AVI standard video with extra motion or just some?

               

              Please consider.

               

              Thank you.

               

              ATR

              • 4. Re: Sharing AVCHD/MP4-NTSC DV Standard results in poor video
                john80047287 Level 1

                JTS,  Good suggestions.

                 

                 

                I tried changing the field order in the AVCHD.mp4 settings and reverse

                field dominance.   This did not have a noticeable impact.

                 

                 

                All the DV AVI video that I have exported to mp4 has this problem.  It is

                not just the current tape and project.

                 

                 

                There is a difference in the video quality using VLC.   Using VLC,

                 

                   - the mp4 looks a little better than WMP.  Turning on deinterlace/blend

                   had no impact.  Still not as good as WMP viewing the mpeg.

                   - the original AVI looks worse than WMP.  Turning on deinterlace/blend

                   made it slightly better, but not as good as WMP AVI or mpeg.  This was

                   surprising to me since I assumed VLC and WMP would handle the original AVI

                   the same.

                   - the mpeg looks worse than WMP and the same as VLC AVI.  Turning on

                   deinterlace/blend had no impact.

                 

                The bottom line is that changing the field order in PE and delinterlacing

                in VLC didn’t solve the mp4 problem.

                 

                 

                 

                On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 10:13 AM, A.T. Romano <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

                • 5. Re: Sharing AVCHD/MP4-NTSC DV Standard results in poor video
                  A.T. Romano Level 7

                  john80047287

                   

                  Thanks for the update and follow up on the suggested troubleshooting.

                   

                  Is the issue presenting in all this still the same distortion in areas of greater motion in the DV AVI source when taken to AVCHD.mp4 but not MPEG2.mpg, both interlaced video like the source?

                   

                  It is not the answer yet, but it would be interesting to compare the present results with those using your source DV AVI and converting it to H.264.mp4 in HandBrake as well as in Movie Maker. Would you consider taking a look at that?

                  https://handbrake.fr/

                  https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/Decomb

                   

                  What might be also of interest is exporting your DV AVI as H.264.mp4 using Publish+Share/Mobile Phones and Players/Apple iPod, iPad, and iPhone and one of the MP4 presets.

                   

                  More details on the above if interested.

                   

                  ATR

                  • 6. Re: Sharing AVCHD/MP4-NTSC DV Standard results in poor video
                    john80047287 Level 1

                    ATR,

                     

                    Yes, digital artifacts are apparent in areas of greater motion (or camera

                    panning) when taken to AVCHD.mp4 and not mpeg2.mpg.   Yes, both AVCHD.mp4

                    and mpeg2.mpg were interlaced (lower field first).

                     

                     

                    Test Results (all using WMP to view)

                     

                     

                     

                       - PE10 Share/mobile phones/iPhone-standard-high quality – successful

                       encoding to mp4, looked good

                       - Movie Maker 12.0 – successful encoding to mp4, looked good.

                       - Handbrake Preset/regular/normal – encoded but had digital artifacts

                       similar to PE10 AVCHD.mp4 (I saved the log file if you want to look at it)

                       - Handbrake Preset/regular/normal with decomb-default – looked good

                     

                    I am interested in your interpretation of these results.

                     

                     

                    John

                     

                     

                    On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 3:43 PM, A.T. Romano <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

                    • 7. Re: Sharing AVCHD/MP4-NTSC DV Standard results in poor video
                      A.T. Romano Level 7

                      John

                       

                      Many factors

                      Deinterlace before or after export

                      If after, what method used by player

                      vs

                      Reversing Field Order for the interlaced video

                       

                      Before I comment on your results, I just want to double check

                      1. Have you done your export studies AVCHD.mp4 versus MPEG2.mpg just with Premiere Elements 10?

                      If so, were you originally using

                      Share

                      Computer

                      AVCHD

                      with Presets = MP4 NTSC DV Standard?

                      If so, did you change any of the default preset settings under the Advanced Button/Video Tab of the preset?

                      What did you use for Field Order under Video Tab under Advanced Button of preset - None (Progressive) or Lower?

                      If Lower, then please try None (Progressive) and let us know the results.

                       

                      I think that your results with the Premiere Elements 10 Share/Mobile Phones and Players to get to a Premiere Elements .mp4 export gave us valuable information.

                       

                       

                      ATR

                      • 8. Re: Sharing AVCHD/MP4-NTSC DV Standard results in poor video
                        john80047287 Level 1

                        ATR,

                        I have only exported mpeg2.mpg with PE10, although I used movie maker and

                        handbrake as well as PE10 to export AVCHD.mp4.

                        I used share/computer/AVCHD/MP4 NTSC DV Standard

                        In the original tests, I used the defaults which I verified was field order

                        "lower"

                        I just tried field order "none" and the export was successful.  The digital

                        artifacts in areas of greater motion are gone and the file size is about

                        the same.

                        I was surprised this worked.   I thought the DV was interlaced.

                        The Handbrake log file had this entry   + (combing detected, may be

                        interlaced or telecined)

                         

                        John

                         

                         

                        On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 9:06 PM, A.T. Romano <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

                        • 9. Re: Sharing AVCHD/MP4-NTSC DV Standard results in poor video
                          A.T. Romano Level 7

                          john

                           

                          Thanks for the further details.

                           

                          My current take on your issue goes to your interlaced video needing deinterlacing for the best possible viewing, especially in the areas of higher motion. Apparently reversing field dominance did not resolve the issue.When you reverse field dominance, you are still dealing with interlaced video and its 2 fields in the one frame, rather than a whole frame without fields and created from the 2 fields. How the whole frame is derived from the 2 fields goes to the description of the de-interlacing method. Please see descriptions of deinterlacing methods at bottom of the following article

                          What is deinterlacing? The best method to deinterlace movies

                          Also, see the following for Adobe's Field Option Always Deinterlace, which I can explain how it works beyond the Adobe description here.

                          https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-elements/using/aspect-ratios-field-options.html

                           

                          When you use Share/Mobile Phone and Players/Apple iPod, iPod, IPhone, under the Advanced Button of the preset selected you should see "deinterlaced" in the Output description.for the H.264.mp4 to be exported. There is no Field Order set. Built into the preset is the deinterlacing option. And, you are going to get a "progressive" video and not an "interlaced" video.

                           

                          When you use Share/Computer/AVCHD and your MP4 preset, this deinterlacing option is not offered in the Output description in the Advanced Settings. The only way to get a whole frame (progressive form) and not a frame with two fields (interlaced form) is to select None (Progressive) in the Advanced Settings/Video Tab.

                           

                          The above seems to be an explanation for how AVCHD.mp4 export seems to work for you in Premiere Elements 10.

                           

                          However, the piece that is not fitting into the equation is your results with Share/Computer/MPEG with the NTSC DVD standard preset to get your MPEG2.mpg instead of the AVCHD.mp4. My tentative explanation is the difference in the video compression and wrapper format (file extension) and how each deals or does not deal with interlaced video.

                           

                          As for Movie Maker and HandBrake results and how they fit or do not fit into this equation. I suspect that your interlaced video going into these programs are  exporting as progressive video. Please confirm that with one of the video properties readout program, Media Info (Tree View). If you download and install MediaInfo just be careful in the download and install choices to avoid unwanted baggage that is expected to download with MediaInfo.

                           

                          Please consider.

                           

                          Thanks.

                           

                          ATR

                          • 10. Re: Sharing AVCHD/MP4-NTSC DV Standard results in poor video
                            john80047287 Level 1

                            ATR,

                             

                            Below is the result of the MediaInfo analysis.

                             

                            Original AVI                     interlaced

                            default AVCHD.mp4         interlaced

                            New AVCHD.mp4            progressive

                            MPEG2.mpg                   interlaced

                            iphone.mp4?                   progressive

                            movie maker                   progressive

                            handbrake                      progressive (although  this still had digital artifacts in WMP)

                            handbrake-decomb          progressive

                             

                            You said “The above seems to be an explanation for how AVCHD.mp4 export seems to work for you in Premiere Elements 10”

                             

                            Normally would Premiere Elements 10 export interlaced AVCHD.mp4 with the default preset with no issues?

                             

                            If yes, do you have some thoughts as to why my version Premiere Elements 10 would be different?   Camera issue?  Computer hardware issue?  Software issue? 

                             

                            Will AVCHD.mp4 with progressive give me a higher probability of being future compatible compared to mpeg2.mpg? 

                             

                            Thank you very much for the help.

                             

                            John

                            • 11. Re: Sharing AVCHD/MP4-NTSC DV Standard results in poor video
                              A.T. Romano Level 7

                              John

                               

                              I still need to get back to you on the questions that you asked in post 10.

                               

                              But, if you have not seen the following thread before, please check it, especially the recent additions to it on an interlacing issue that vctv is having.

                              Horizontal Lines on Exported Video

                               

                              Major factor that caught my attention was what seemed to me to be vctv's problem with MPEG2.mpg and interlacing and not AVCHD.mp4 and interlacing. I need to confirm more details, but it sounds like the versus interlacing end result that you reported, that is, problems with interlacing and AVCHD.mp4 and not interlacing and MPEG2.mpg.

                               

                              I am doing some additional studies on your situation and that of vcts and am hoping to put it together the findings in the next day or so or sooner.

                               

                              ATR

                              • 12. Re: Sharing AVCHD/MP4-NTSC DV Standard results in poor video
                                john80047287 Level 1

                                Hi ATR,

                                 

                                I am getting back to my project after some summer vacations.

                                 

                                I read the vctv thread with interest, but I didn’t pick up anything to try for my situation.

                                 

                                Do you have any further guidance?  Should I give up trying to export AVCHD.mp4 with the default settings (interlaced)? 

                                 

                                If I have to choose between AVCHD.mp4 (progressive) or mpeg2.mpg (interlaced), which gives me a higher probability of being future compatible?

                                 

                                John