Well if you would like to see the results of a similar setup Register at our Premiere Pro BenchMark (PPBM) website and once registered you can see over 220 test results. Look at the Computer ID of BillG X99 (third entry currently) on the results page and you will see my i7-5960X at 4.5 GHz with 64 GB of RAM and one Samsung 840 Pro boot disk and one Samsung SM951 project disk plus in this case I had three GPU's installed just to see how well they worked. If you download the required Speccy software you can see the details of any and all systems by just clicking on the attached Speccy file.
Notice the first place configuration is also mine but this time with an Areca ARC-1883i controller with 7 Samsung 840 Pro SSD's in RAID 3 for the project files is faster than the other one but probably not necessary for the small incremental improvement over the single SM951.
I have never done water cooling as it does not seem to be any better than a GOOD air cooler in a good case
looks solid, but unless you are doing heavy overclocking i agree with bill, go with a big air cooler. especially if you leave the computer on while you are away from it or overnight.
Thanks Bill and Ronin for your replies. I am registered at the PPBM site but haven't yet downloaded the Speccy software. I was hoping that someone had run PPBM with an SM951 for both drives vs. an 850 Pro as the boot/program drive and an SM951 for data while leaving everything else in the system unchanged. In addition, it would also be good to see the same system with a three drive setup configured as we used to do with HDD's. I don't want to waste money but I also want to maximize the potential with my limited funds. This is exactly what PPBM is best at doing; we just need to compare the impact of the various configurations within otherwise unchanged systems.
I originally looked at air cooling and searched for reviews/comparisons. I kept finding that the Corsair H110i GT water cooler was consistently the leader for both air and water. In some cases, the benefit was material--with overclocking and under stress results of 6 to 7 degrees compared to the NH-D15 and 20 degrees compared to my old standby the Hyper 612. Here is a sample of the reviews I found: Overclock3D :: Review :: Cooler Master Hyper 612 v2 Review :: Performance and Testing
I also found that there was some concern about having such a big/heavy cooler hanging off the motherboard. (I'm not sure that's such a material concern however for me since my computer is rarely moved.) From your comments, I guess I need to reconsider CPU cooling.
Ronin, my computer is not on overnight and we turn our machines off when we're not around. We're not always sitting in the office but we're usually around the premises when the computers are on. I would be especially wary of leaving a new computer on while not here but I guess the pump could go anytime. I DO plan to overclock to whatever I can manage for a very stable 24/7/365 system. I know it's the CPU lottery but it would be nice to be at 4.0 and even better at 4.5.
Another question for you guys.... the motherboard has "CEB form factor" with dimensions of 12" x 10.5" and the case is ATX extended compatible with motherboard dimensions of 12" x 13". Would this case be compatible with the motherboard?????
Thanks again guys, I really appreciate your feedback and respect your opinions.
the asus board you are getting, using ceb, should have the same mount holes as atx. so if it can handle atx at 12x13, your's should have plenty of room. i looked at an install video on youtube with a standard board, there was a ton of room left and the cpu backplate cutout was huge, should be no problem. if you are going for max overclock, then yes the water cooling will do a better job. these all-in-one water coolers have been around for a while now, so they make em pretty reliable. corsair seems to stand behind their warranty, just in case it springs a leak and takes out the computer.
the m.2 and pci-e ssd's are great if you can fit all the media and cache for your project(s) on it. if not, raid ssd's with the intel 730 480gb versions will increase capacity and speed over single sata ssd. there is a premium for the m.2 and pci-e ssd's, for speed vs capacity...
Thanks again Ronin. I'll feel better about the overclock if I can keep this rather expensive CPU a little or a lot cooler.
I think I may need more live storage capacity and will augment these M.2's at some point after the build.
At the moment I am waiting impatiently for the USB 3.1 version of the MB to surface in the USA and for more 980ti's as well. Then I think I'll pull the trigger!!!! (can't wait)
the big 200mm fans in that case should help keep everything cool too. the motherboard and m.2 temps will be important to watch. usb 3.1 definitely gonna be nice and the 980ti is performing very well in early gaming benchmarks.
Yeah, the fans and the ability to fully customize that case were big selling points. All of the case HDD drive cages are going to be removed so the airflow from the front two 200mm fans will have no obstructions. The case also has the option to hang two HDD's behind the MB tray, so I could add some if desired. But my goal is to go all solid state and use HDD's for archived media and backups.
I have a few Asus temperature sensors that should work with this MB and if not, I will get some specifically to monitor the SSD temps. I also hear that they can get hot. We'll see. :-)
Thanks for the head's up!
Hello Bill! Great info, as I'd never heard of the SM951 prior to today. I am wondering, what are you using for scratch disk, export, Previews, Media Cache? Is the SM951 just that fast?
I am looking to upgrade this build https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1407424 and last I heard I'd need a new CPU/cooler, Areca, and SSD's all around to add some speed. If it is possible to get around adding the RAID controller, I'm obviously all for it. Where I experience a big slow down is during rendering and when editing multiple layers of composited 1080 video.
Any input on this upgrade would be appreciated, and perhaps I should just start a new thread.
you can read thru Re: Another build question where we've been discussing sata ssd and pci-e ssd. pci-e/m.2 ssd speeds are over 4x faster than a single sata ssd. current capacity up to 1tb, so if all your media can fit on one, its a good option.
Thanks RoninEdits. Man at first glance, it's looking like I'm in a similar boat as that guy. Wanted to run out and order up an i7 5690x and one of these new fangled SSD's, but it looks like a new MB/Ram is going to be needed to do so. Dammit, was hoping this was going to be quick. It seems it will not be quick or simple.
Glad I stumbled upon this thread - had a very similar question. I'm looking at building this:
CPU: I7-5960x OC @ 4.5’ish
Mobo: ASUS x99-E WS
Cooling: Thermaltake Water 3.0 Ultimate (added fans for push/pull)
RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws 4 Series 64GB DDR4 2800 (possibly 32GB of that as RAM Disk)
Video: 2 x GeForce GTX 980 Ti (non-SLI)
Sound: (open to suggestions) Some sort of external 5.1 sound card
1 x 512GB SSD – C:\ Drive (Boot & Programs)
2 x 1TB SSD Raid 0 – Project & Source files
1 x 256GB SSD – Output/Renders
1 x 256GB – Previews/Cache
2 x 6TB Raid External Synology NAS – Storage & Back-up
Case: (open to suggestions)
Any thoughts would be great, but looks like there are plently of links to great info above to keep me busy for awhile.
yeah, there are several build threads going here, you can look at for good info
that thermaltake being 360mm is already at 3 fans, that will probably be enough and added fans will add more noise and limit case options.
depending on what else you are doing with the pc, and what media you have in premiere, the 2x gtx 980 TI's may be overkill.
the motherboard says it supports surround on s/pdif optical or hdmi, so if you can use either one of those you shouldn't need external sound card.
corsair, phanteks, fractal design, nzxt, all make some good cases. phanteks enthoo cases have been getting some top reviews.
take a look at the Thermaltake Core V71 (2x200mm front fans) or NZXT H440 (3x120mm front fans, no 5.25 bays).
ssd's, you probably have noticed by now from reading these forums, samsung 850 pro's are tops.
instead of 2x 256gb ssds (1 for output/renders, 1 for cache), you can get 1 samsung sm951 m.2 512gb. its a little more but the speeds are insane.
Thank you, RoninEdits - great feedback!
Yeah, I saw you guys talking about the m.2 SSDs - had never heard of them before. I'm still a little foggy on a few things in that realm:
- Along with the Samsung m.2 SSD's, I noticed the Intel 750 Series PCIe AIC SSD, which uses NVMe? Is NVMe and m.2 the same thing, or different? If different, is one better than the other?
- Which would be better for the project/source files storage, the 2 x 1TB Samsung 850 pro's in Raid 0, or 1 x Intel SSD 750 Series PCIe AIC 1.2TB? (I'm assuming the latter)
- If I read the information on the PCIe SSD's correctly, they can read and write at the same time? If so, then do I even need additional storage for output/render/cache, or can I put all that on the same 1TB PCIe SSD as the project/source files without any hit to performance?
- If I should still keep them separate (project/source and output/render/cache), then I'm looking at 2 x video cards, and 2 x PCIe SSD's. The motherboard has 4 PCI x 16 slots, and 3 PCI x 8. How do put all those together (which in which slots) to ensure none of the x16 slots are downgraded in speed?
- Back to the Intel SSD's, there are these two 1.2TB drives - SSDPEDMW012T4R5 and SSDPE2MW012T4R5. Is it the same drive, but two different methods of connecting it? Is one method better than the other?
In terms of video cards, I do a wide range of video and photography editing, including up to 4k video, After Effects animations and 3D modeling using Elements 3D, and on the very rare occassion I hop into 3ds Max to edit some of the obj files I work with in After Effects. So, my initial thinking was to get a single Titan X, but then I noticed the 980 TI's, which have about the same core/memory clock, and 2 together give about 30% more CUDA cores (which would be a huge boon in the Adobe apps) of the single Titan X at the same price. Does that make sense? (looking for sanity check there)
And for the audio, I do a lot of sound design and VO recording for my work. Maybe things have gotten better with latest gen motherboards, but from past experience on-board audio always added noise to the signal.
the m.2 and pci-e should be close to the same performance. NVMe is a new controller spec for pci-e ssd. it looks like the samsung m.2 for sale currently on amazon/newegg are the old achi spec, but there are some that use the new nvme. Samsung SM951 M.2 NVME SSD Review (256GB) | The SSD Review the nvme pcie is capable of lower latency, but you may not notice the difference between. the intel 750's and samsung sm951 are pretty close in speeds to what i have seen, except the samsung seems to do alot better for writes. the intel 750 1tb version does perform closer to the samung, vs the intel 750 400gb version. another benefit of the intel 750's are the large heatsink (samsung has none, and these get hot) as well as its suppose to be bootable (m.2 is difficult for this). if the intel 750 400gb version is enough capacity for cache/previews to replace the 2x ssd's, then its also an option to consider vs the samsung sm951. both intel and samsung are very well known for reliability at this point.
im not sure, but maybe only be the nvme are capable of both writing and reading at the same time. as long as you have enough room for all the media, cache, renders, etc, you should be able to place them all on the intel 750 1tb pcie ssd. with its speeds, it may even be possible to only have the 1tb drive for everything including the OS/apps. since the 2xssd 1tb raid 0 would be for media, it shouldn't be reading and writing at the same time. therefore the question is do you want the speed or capacity? intel has already announced plans for 10tb pci-e ssd's in the future, so they should be even faster to have everything on one drive, and keep people from running out of pci-e slots.
for the intel 750 2.5" ssd SSDPE2MW012T4R5, it requires an sas SFF-8643 connection. asus makes this m.2 to sas adapter ASUS Model Hyper Kit Expansion Card M.2 TO MINI SAS HD ADAPTER. they do make pci-e sas controller cards with multiple SFF-8643 connections. so instead of 1x1tb 750 pcie card, could use 1xsas controller card connected to 4 or more 2.5" ssd's. not sure of any draw backs, if nothing else, going with the 2.5" sas ssd may allow for better upgrade options in the future with sas controller cards.
the gtx 980 ti's are performing pretty close to the titan, so they are the sweet spot at the top vs 980 and titan. by default, speedgrade would be the only adobe app to come close to needing that much power from the 2x980 ti's, and that would depend on the media. so it comes down to any third party plugins you may have, some for AE do use gpu processing, Elements 3D, and 3ds Max. im not familiar with those programs to recommend gpu power for those, they may also depend on if you are using third party render engines. you could always start with one 980 ti and add another later...
you can look at the motherboard manual to see how it handles multiple pci-e cards. if i found the right one for the asus, it shows it has (7) pci express 3.0 x16 slots. the manual shows a quad (4 cards) config still able to run at full speed (x16). then looks like anything more will drop the speeds of the pci-e slots by half to 8x, except the first stays at 16x.
some new motherboards like yours, say they isolate the hardware components related to the sound card chip to give cleaner audio. however its still inside the computer case, able to pickup electronic noise. so yeah, you may want to invest in an external device. perhaps get one a usb recording audio interface for the microphone and use the motherboard sound card for 5.1 out. there are many usb audio interfaces that should provide good recording, and allow for high quality xlr microphones too. Focusrite Scarlett is a popular brand/model. if you dont have a high quality mic already, they do sell some usb microphones that basically have an audio interface built into them, so you dont need anything more. the blue mics are popular but i think the audio technica mic's get better reviews.
Thank you Ronin for your thoughts - very helpful!
I've looked around for the PCIe controller card "hub" that would allow for multiple m.2/PCIe drives to be plugged into it, but haven't been able to find it. Do you by any chance have the exact product or model name?
Okay, with all of the above in mind, I've modified my build list to this:
CPU: I7-5960x (OC'ed @ 4.5'ish)
Motherboard: ASUS X99-E WS/USB 3.1 (3.1 version not yet released, but want to wait for it)
RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws 4 Series 64GB DDR4 2800
Cooling: Thermaltake Water 3.0 Ultimate Cooling
Video Card: 2 x EVGA GeForce GTX 980 Ti Superclocked+ ACX 2.0+
1) C:/ Drive: Samsung SM951-NVMe 512GB SSD (AHCI may do depending on how long until the NVMe version is released)
2) Source/Project Drive: Intel 750 PCIe 1.2TB SSD
3) Output/Cache/Previews: 2 x Raid 0: Samsung 850 Pro 256GB
Case: Thermaltake Core V71 Extreme
Media Player: ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD
Sound: Not sure yet (still leaning toward an external USB solution, but haven't found one that jumps out at me yet - preferably a 7.1)
the pcie cards are usually called adapters, not hubs. so you can search for pci-e/pci express adapter m.2. if you are wanting to boot from the samsung m.2, you should look up a guide or two, i think someone wrote one up on asus's forums. so you know what you may have to deal with. the few adapters i've seen aren't from any brands that i recognize to recommend... your motherboard should have an m.2 slot on it, so you shouldn't need the adapter. if you are looking at the adapter for more capacity, you may just consider adding another intel 750 1tb instead. i would think the 500gb samsung should be all the capacity and speed you need. if you need some storage space for miscellaneous files, you could add a regular hdd. you may also want to check with the motherboard manual or hardware list on asus's website for the m.2 devices. to make sure it supports ahci or nvme, or both.
asus is releasing a gtx 980 ti strix version, i don't think its out yet. might want to check it out if you are waiting for the motherboard.