20 Replies Latest reply on Jun 11, 2015 6:26 AM by coSeed

    performance degradation during the course of use?

    coSeed Level 1

      I am working on a wholesale reorg of my catalog (creating folders, moving files, renaming files etc.) No develop module. During the course of work (say within only 30-60min) I notice significant performance degradation. Responsiveness slows dramatically. Dragging files around is sluggish and at times grinds to a halt. Eventually gets to the point where I have to restart the app. Why? Is there anything I can do to improve?

       

      I am on a dedicated photo workstation. Win 7 64. core i7-479 processor. 32GB RAM. OS and Apps are on a dedicated SSD. Data including LR catalog and previews are on a 7200 rpm HD. Camera RAW cache is on a dedicated SSD and set at 100GB. I optimize the catalog daily / every time I exit the app.

       

      Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

        • 1. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
          dj_paige Level 9

          Have you optimized your catalog lately?

           

          File->Optimize Catalog

          • 2. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
            coSeed Level 1

            yes, every time i close lightroom.

            • 3. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
              dj_paige Level 9

              I have no experience doing the things you are doing in Lightroom, but have you try moving/renaming the photos/folders in your operating system and then reconnecting in Lightroom via: Adobe Lightroom - Find moved or missing files and folders — it's reported to be faster than just using Lightroom

               

              And thinking completely out of the box, and I'm sure you don't want to hear this, most people don't, but have you considered leaving photos and folders unmoved and unchanged and instead using metadata (keywords, captions, etc.) to organize? You won't have this slowdown problem.

              • 4. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
                dj_paige Level 9

                What happens if during one of these sessions where LR starts to slow down, you optimize the catalog at that point without closing Lightroom, does that improve the problem?

                • 5. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
                  coSeed Level 1

                  I wish I could do the org stuff outside lightroom as it's been such a problem. I briefly considered maybe using PhotoMechanic or something else then editing in LR, but frankly haven't had the time to research the pros/cons of such an approach. The thought of trying to keep two apps in sync is less than appealing. So I have always followed best practice and done all my organization within the app. The number of changes I'm making aren't conducive to moving things around out of the app then trying to reconnect individual files/folders.

                   

                  I already use keywords and collections extensively. In fact the reason I'm moving things around is to adopt a different, deeper methodology for employing both. Even keywording in volume can get super slow.

                  • 6. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
                    dj_paige Level 9

                    What does "in volume" mean? Are you adding keywords to 20,000 images at a time, or moving 20,000 images at a time?

                    • 7. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
                      coSeed Level 1

                      no. my catalog is only ~32k. moving, renaming, keywording 50-300 images at a time, over and over. does ok for a little while. then starts to chug. to answer your prior question i have never tried to optimize without restarting the app.

                      • 8. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
                        coSeed Level 1

                        ~32k images that is.

                        • 9. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
                          dj_paige Level 9

                          Well, sorry to say, I have no other suggestions, so I hope someone else has some ideas that might help

                          • 10. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
                            trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            coSeed wrote:

                             

                            moving, renaming, keywording 50-300 images at a time, over and over. does ok for a little while. then starts to chug

                            Do you have 'Automatically write changes into XMP' checked in Catalog Settings? If so when you add keywords to multiple images and then try to move any of them before the new metadata write-back is complete this may cause a slow-down. I've never done that, but it makes sense LR needs to finish the first operation (metadata write-back) before allowing the files to be moved.

                             

                            Even if you don't have 'Automatically write changes into XMP' enabled try adding keywords and moving files as two separate session operations. If working on a large number of files make sure you allow enough time for the current operation to complete. When you move 300 images that are 25MB each with a 100MB/sec HDD Write transfer speed it's going to take (300 x 25)÷100 = 75 seconds to complete. If you start a 2nd 300 file image move before the first move has completed your Write transfer speed will drop to 1/2 and now take ~150 seconds to complete.

                             

                            OS and Apps are on a dedicated SSD. Data including LR catalog and previews are on a 7200 rpm HD. Camera RAW cache is on a dedicated SSD and set at 100GB.

                             

                            If the LR Catalog and previews are on the same HDD as the image files then everything in LR will slow down until the image file move Write transfer is complete, correct? You may want to try moving the LR Catalog and Previews to the Camera Raw Cache SSD if there is enough free space.

                            • 11. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
                              coSeed Level 1

                              I do have 'Automatically write changes into XMP' as i've heard others suggest/warn time and again. heard some nightmare stories from folks not being aware of the default, so erred on the safe side knowing there might be some performance tradeoff. whats confusing is it seems to keep up early on then bogs down to a crawl. even if i (think i am) performing one operation at a time (rename -> move -> rename folder etc).


                              question, i convert all to DNG upon import. does XMP work the same for DNG as say CR2? how does XMP relate to PSDs that have LR edits? is it still generally recommended as best practice to have this option checked?


                              looks like my LR catalogs are ~27GB on disk. and the dedicated SSD scratch I have has ~238GB free. so doesn't look like space is an issue. to confirm my understanding, you think i should move the catalogs and previews to the SSD leaving the image files where they are? should i keep the camera raw cache where it is or should it then be moved? is there any potential negative consequence of putting the catalogs on an SSD vs HD?



                              • 12. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
                                coSeed Level 1

                                this article is a bit dated, but the very last paragraph seems to corroborate your suggestion.

                                 

                                Will an SSD Improve Adobe Lightroom Performance? | Computer Darkroom

                                • 13. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
                                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  coSeed wrote:

                                   

                                  I do have 'Automatically write changes into XMP' as i've heard others suggest/warn time and again. heard some nightmare stories from folks not being aware of the default, so erred on the safe side knowing there might be some performance tradeoff. whats confusing is it seems to keep up early on then bogs down to a crawl. even if i (think i am) performing one operation at a time (rename -> move -> rename folder etc).

                                  With 'Automatically write changes into XMP' there is no way of knowing when LR has finished the image file metadata write-back operation. It probably does this at a low-level of priority, which means it takes some time. You can speed this up by selecting the files with keyword and other changes and then using CTRL + S  or Menu> Metadata >Save Metadata to File. It should then start the write-back operation immediately, but will still take some time.

                                   

                                  coSeed wrote:


                                  question, i convert all to DNG upon import. does XMP work the same for DNG as say CR2? how does XMP relate to PSDs that have LR edits? is it still generally recommended as best practice to have this option checked?

                                  DNG files contain this metadata internally and do not use separate XMP files. Only raw files require XMP sidecar files files. PSD, TIFF, JPEG, and PNG files also have this metadata written internally, but you need to check that in the Catalog settings to enable it. It's a good backup to the catalog, but doesn't include things like Collections and other work done inside LR. So it's important to also backup the Catalog(s) on a regular basis.

                                   

                                  coSeed wrote:

                                  looks like my LR catalogs are ~27GB on disk. and the dedicated SSD scratch I have has ~238GB free. so doesn't look like space is an issue. to confirm my understanding, you think i should move the catalogs and previews to the SSD leaving the image files where they are?

                                  Yes, close LR and Copy & Paste the LR Catalog folder that contains the LR Catalog file and Previews folder to the Camera Raw SSD. You will need to reconnect the LR Catalog at the new location when reopening LR. https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/help/create-catalogs.html#copy_or_move_a_catalog

                                   

                                  I suggest Copy & Paste for two reasons: 1) To verify data integrity of the Catalog and Previews files on the SSD after Copy & Paste, and 2) to allow testing LR performance with the Catalog on the HDD and SSD drives. See the procedure here for checking  data integrity when moving large numbers of data files: Re: How do I move my pictures to external hard drive?

                                   

                                  As long as you perform regular backups of the LR Catalog file there are no issues using SSD over HDD for the LR Catalog and Previews. I'm using a single 256GB SSD for Windows OS, Apps, LR Catalog & Previews, and Camera Raw Cache for over one-year now with no issues.

                                  • 14. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
                                    coSeed Level 1

                                    migrated and testing now. thanks for the suggestion.

                                    • 15. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
                                      trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      Please let us know your results, which may help others who land here with a similar issue. Good luck!

                                      • 16. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
                                        coSeed Level 1

                                        I will! First impressions last night are that the metadata updates felt zipper. But need to test more to see if it holds up over time.

                                        • 17. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
                                          coSeed Level 1

                                          trshaner, a quick followup. performance still seems to be degrading over time while in use. even if i allow it plenty of time do whatever it might be doing in the background. even tried leaving the app for a bit (check email etc) after doing some work and coming back to it. once it starts to chug it seems to continue chugging. i get a lot of the spinning cursor and "Not Responding" freezes. it eventually wakes back up (i.e. the app never full on crashes) but...less than ideal. so exit, optimize, and start again.

                                          • 18. Re: performance degradation during the course of use?
                                            trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            This could very well be normal (bad) LR behavior. I don't move files after keywording and don't write metadata to my image files and haven't experienced any slow-downs in LR. The slow-down you mention is due to "low" system resources (CPU, Memory, Disk, Network)

                                             

                                            Launch Windows Resource Monitor (CTRL + ALT + DEL keys), set 'Update Speed' to 'Low', click on 'Resource Monitor.'

                                            Select the 'Overview tab' and open all four drop-downs by clicking on CPU, Disk, Network, and Memory in the left panel:

                                            (Updated screenshot)

                                            Start working in LR and then at the first indication of any slow-down 'Stop Monitoring' so you can check all previous history steps.

                                             

                                             

                                            Check all resources (CPU, Disk, Network, Memory) and see what's causing the issue. 'Start Monitoring' again and work some more until it really bogs down and Then 'Stop Monitoring' and check again. What's being heavily utilized?