1 2 Previous Next 50 Replies Latest reply on Dec 10, 2016 6:44 AM by Digital-Finger

    5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles

    MayaTlab Level 1

      Hi,

       

      When Adobe released LR CC with what appeared at the time as a preliminary handling of the Canon 5DS(r) files, I noticed that the tone curve with all profiles (either Adobe standard or brand-specific profiles) seemed to produce much darker shadows than all other Canon cameras. This is something DPreview's noticed too :

       

      "Furthermore, comparisons are slightly complicated by the aggressive tone curve ACR is applying to the 5DS R files that are crushing its blacks, and potentially decreasing the levels of visible noise by making them darker. We expect a later version of ACR to fix this, at which point we will re-process and revisit these results."

       

      Canon EOS 5DS / 5DS R First Impressions Review: Digital Photography Review

       

      With the release of LR 2015.1, I was expecting this behaviour to be corrected, but that isn't the case. Is it something that's inherent to the 5DS(r) files ? Does Adobe plan to correct this ?

       

      Thanks

        • 1. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
          AllCommPhoto Level 1

          Maya,

           

          Just received the 5DS and was trying to calibrate a sekonic 758DR using the raws. After they are converted to either Tiff or Jpeg via ACR I see about a stop in loss Dynamic Range. I base this on using the Jpegs straight out of the camera and getting a result which is a stop better. In my experience, I have never seen jpegs from the camera produce better results than converted Raws. My next test is to convert the raws using Canon's Digital Photo Professional. If the tiff or jpegs converted from DPP produce significant results better than converted ACR files than we know we have an issue with ACR.

          • 2. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
            MayaTlab Level 1

            By "about a stop in loss Dynamic Range" you mean that compared to jpegs or DPP, raws from ACR / LR, regardless of the profile, tend to block shadows more ?

            As far as I'm concerned I haven't compared with jpegs - just using DPreview's test scene files from various Canon cameras and the 5DSr - the latter has a much steeper tone curve. That's even more annoying as the 2012 process removed the linear curve.

             

            Apparently there could also be problems with colours in ACR / LR 5DS(r) profiles, according to Lloyd Chambers :

            http://diglloyd.com/blog/2015/20150619_1030-example-bad-color-fruit.html

            • 3. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
              AllCommPhoto Level 1

              A stop in loss from the Jpegs straight from the camera. At least that is what I'm seeing when I use Sekonic's DTS software. I converted the raws to tiffs using DPP's converter and have the same results as the Jpegs straight from the camera.

              So this tells me, there is an issue with ACR. Using DPP as a workflow is out of the question.  

              • 4. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                As long as you don't the camera set to fix the exposure or auto-tone or otherwise do some dynamic range compression on the JPGs before producing them, then it's possible that you're seeing a bad set of profiles in ACR, but since you don't say you've got all the appropriate auto-fix settings turned off maybe something is turned on and of course DPP will honor whatever auto-fix settings might be on, as well, so should duplicate what the camera is producing.

                 

                Do you have a side-by-side comparison between JPGs of a prior Canon camera and the 5Ds to show that the dynamic range is the same in the camera JPGs and different in the ACR Profiles, or did you sell your previous camera to finance the upgrade?

                 

                If there is something wrong, Adobe would need to be able to reproduce the issue, and before that be someone convinced there is a problem that is worth investigating.

                • 5. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                  AllCommPhoto Level 1

                  Hello.

                   

                  Let me explain further. In general, I  never do in camera Jpeg when building the exposure profiles for the Sekonic meter. I only resorted to this because the results of the converted raw to Tiff in ACR for the 5DS were giving me around 4.5 dynamic range. I still have two 5D Mark III's and they will get from 6.5 to 7 after processing. After seeing a one stop increase in using Jpegs, I then decided to take the Raw images, I used previously in ACR and convert them using DPP. I used those Tiffs in the DTS software and was able to get a little over a stop better in my results from the Tiffs created by ACR.

                   

                  Clearly something is going on with ACR and how it is converting the Raws. The images from the 5DS are stunning and I'm happy with the camera. I believe the issue here is Adobe Camera Raw. This is not surprising as we have seen this before with prior camera releases. 

                  • 6. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                    AllCommPhoto Level 1

                    As further follow-up on this discussion,

                     

                    I see the same phenomenon as Maya with the "crushed shadows" using Adobe profiles. I've created custom profiles and tone curves which yield similar results to the 5D3. The supplied adobe profiles for the 5DS/R are not good at all. Hopefully, this will be updated soon.    

                    • 7. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                      MayaTlab Level 1

                      I also would like to see that problem fixed.

                       

                      Some other raw demosaicing softwares don't have the same problem with 5DS(r) raw files (they have other problems though ). It's specific to Adobe's profiles.

                      • 8. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                        AllCommPhoto Level 1

                        Clearly it's the profiles. When I use a custom profile and convert a raw to Tiff via ACR it beats the standard profile from Adobe by 2 stops using the Sekonic software which measures dynamic range. Talk about crushed.

                        Until Adobe corrects their profiles for the 5DS/R it as an absolute must to create your own profiles. Always a good idea anyway but in this case absolutely necessary.  

                        • 9. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Would it be possible for one of you to provide raw files of the same high-dynamic-range target/subject/lighting (or series of shots with the same camera exposure at different flash power if that's how it works) with a 5D.3 and a 5Ds as well as a camera-or-DPP JPG from the same raws?  One way to share would be to upload the 4 files to www.dropbox.com and post a public share link, here.

                           

                          I'd like to pass along what you're saying to Adobe but their access to cameras can be limited, so it would be easier if I could include raw files they can verify with, immediately, instead of having them wait for a camera to be available and the report being put on a back burner and updated profiles or at least an explanation of why things are the way they are, being delayed.

                          • 10. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                            MayaTlab Level 1

                            Unfortunately, I still don't have a 5DS(r).

                            But DPreview's test scene files should be enough :

                            Image comparison: Digital Photography Review

                             

                            Screen Shot 2015-06-24 at 23.54.27.jpg

                            • 11. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                              AllCommPhoto Level 1

                              Yes, I would be happy to share a link. What I will do is photograph an Xrite Color checker passport with the 5D3 and the 5DS. Same lighting, white balance. If you look at the Raw from each camera using the Adobe Standard profile it will be evident the black area on the CCP will be darker with more contrast and less detail.

                               

                              I'll put it out on dropbox with an expiration date of tomorrow. 

                              • 12. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                AllCommPhoto Level 1

                                Here is a link to the 5D3 and 5DS Raw images. This will show the difference between the profiles and how the 5DS profiles are affecting the shadows.  This link will remain active until 6/27.

                                 

                                Dropbox - Adobe

                                • 13. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                  ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  I've passed on your files and an explanation to Adobe.  We'll see what happens.

                                  • 15. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                    AllCommPhoto Level 1

                                    Great. Thanks for sharing it with them.

                                    • 16. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                      mcreston Level 1

                                      any updates?  editing my first shoot with the new 5dsr and having the same issues, driving me bonkers

                                      • 17. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                        MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

                                        Hello,

                                         

                                        We deliberately used a stronger tone curve (more contrast) when building the Adobe Standard color profiles for the Canon EOS 5DS and 5DS R.  It is similar to the tone curve in the Camera Standard color profile.  This makes the images have more "pop" though as you've observed, shadow areas may have less visible detail (by default).  The increase in default contrast is roughly equivalent to the Contrast slider in the Basic panel being set to +10 or +15.  I understand that some people may appreciate this extra default contrast, but others may not.  If you don't like it, I suggest setting Contrast in the Basic panel to -10 or -15  (or refine further in the Tone Curve panel using the more fine-grained tools there).  As a shortcut, save a custom camera default so that your preferred adjustments are applied to all other images in the future.

                                         

                                        Cheers,

                                        Eric

                                        • 18. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                          MayaTlab Level 1

                                          Thanks for answering.

                                          Unfortunately, I think that simply adjusting contrast or even trying to modify the curve with the curve tool is inadequate, as the most annoying problem is the shape of the tone curve "foot", visible here in DNG Profile Editor :

                                          That's the 5DSR's Adobe standard base profile curve. Note the shape of the curve's "foot" (the rest of the curve is different as well but in my opinion the foot is the most problematic thing since it's a little harder - or at least time wasting - to correct with ACR/LR's sliders or even the curve tool which is too imprecise for this to be properly corrected). This curve is different from the camera raw default profile, unlike other Canon cameras :

                                          That's the 6D's Adobe standard base profile curve. It's identical to the camera raw default curve.

                                          At least for the Adobe standard profile, the solution that I prefer is to make a new profile in DNG Profile Editor based on the 5DSR profile above but with the camera raw default profile curve instead (which is identical between cameras). This makes the 5DSR closer to other Canon cameras I think (since their base profile curve is identical to the camera raw default). In my opinion, this solution, at least for those using the Adobe standard profile, is better than the alternatives you suggested. The following is my new 5DSR Adobe standard profile - with a similar curve as other Canon cameras.

                                          The 5DS(r)'s more contrasted tone curve happens with all profiles. As an example, that's the faithful profile for the 5DSR :

                                          That's the 6D's faithful curve. Other Canon cameras share the same curve. The foot is less contrasted :

                                          Unfortunately, it's impossible to use the same trick as with Adobe standard as brand-specific profiles aren't available in the "base tone curve" drop-down list.

                                          You say that "We deliberately used a stronger tone curve", but why ? Is there any rational reasons for that decision ? Will following Canon cameras share this new, more contrasted tone curve ?

                                          A better solution would be to add a menu in the profile panel in LR/ACR that allows users to select what base curve they'd like to use and propose a selection of curves that especially vary in the extremities areas, where it's the hardest and most annoying to adjust the curve - just like Capture One.


                                          • 19. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                            MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

                                            Hello,

                                             

                                            I think you may be misled by the tone curve visualization in the DNG Profile Editor.  The visualization in DNG PE is done with the X axis on a linear scale.  This makes it appears as if there is very little precision available on the left (shadow) end of the scale, and makes the "foot" of the curve appear unusually steep.

                                             

                                            The tone curve controls in Camera Raw / Lightroom (including the point curve, parametric curve, and Contrast slider) all work in a non-linear (more perceptually uniform) space.  This way there is roughly equal precision available to adjust both shadow and highlight areas (on either side of perceptual middle gray).

                                             

                                            Cheers,

                                            Eric

                                            • 20. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                              MayaTlab Level 1

                                              The problem isn't technical, it's a question of user interface. That's my best effort at matching the the camera raw default curve with only tools available within LR :

                                              Screen Shot 2015-08-14 at 11.08.40.jpg

                                              A -15 contrast adjustment is nowhere near the camera raw default curve, especially in the darkest areas, to be frank. Using the tone curve alone is impossible. I'd need another bunch of points in the lower tones (below the two siamese points) and even if that was realistically possible to precisely adjust them I'm not even sure I'd really get a good match with the camera default curve.

                                               

                                              And now, my problem : how do I quickly, efficiently use that base tone curve for individual pictures adjustments ? You had the exact same problem with the 2010 process (i.e., a curve with a multitude of points already in place) and somewhat corrected it with the 2012 one.

                                               

                                              At least for Adobe standard, creating a custom profile in the DNG Profile Editor with the camera raw default curve is in my opinion a much better, quicker and simpler solution.

                                               

                                              Also, I still haven't received an answer regarding why Adobe decided to suddenly change the curves for the 5DS(r), compared to previous Canon cameras, and if this trend will be continued in the future. You say that it makes pictures "pop" more - did you actually receive a number of requests for more contrasted curves ? I believe nearly ALL cameras use the camera raw default curve as the curve for the Adobe standard profile, why the 5DS should be any different ?

                                               

                                              I also remind you that some websites (apparently, DPreview for example, as quoted in the OP), use your profiles to make comparisons between cameras. Suddenly changing the tonal curves make their comparisons invalid to an extent.

                                              • 21. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                                Bershatsky Level 1

                                                Here's the thing Eric...

                                                 

                                                The colors for Adobe Standard differ between camera body. This is really unacceptable. Many of us use different camera bodies and even different brands in our workflow. To come up with a unified starting place, like Adobe Standard is a must. Sadly, Adobe "standard" is anything but. That's why people are using Xrite (too outdated if you ask me), DNG Profile Editor (also outdated), and more.

                                                 

                                                How is it that Capture One and Iridient are able to deliver better results out of the box? Their shortfall? Performance and no library - this is where Adobe wins.

                                                 

                                                Also, how come there is no "fine detail" Camera Calibration preset?

                                                • 22. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                                  LuxMirabilis Level 1

                                                  Wouldn't this be resolved by making a custom camera profile (single or dual illuminant) either using Adobe PE or Xrite's ColorChecker Profile Editor?

                                                  • 23. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                                    mike mccue Level 1

                                                    Here are some test shots I made over the weekend. I primarily made them to compare sharpness and resolution but it turned in to a good opportunity to compare Adobe's color profiles.

                                                     

                                                    I used Adobe Camera RAW 9.1.1 to process the files shown by using each cameras' "Camera Neutral" setting. I selected Neutral after viewing all the other choices for the 5DS R. Neutral seemed like the least bad choice for the 5DS R. I also used ACR to set each file to a 3000k white balance with zero sharpening and zero noise removal. I also and enabled lens profile corrections. All of the develop settings in ACR's "basic" tab were left at zero.

                                                     

                                                    I shot many timed exposures at f11 on ISO 100. The files shown here are 1/4 second exposures but I'll probably use a brighter example, to process as if I shot with a ETTR workflow, when I work with the files to compare the potential for detail and color etc. I selected the 1/4 second exposure for uploading to this thread because they show the crushed black in the 5DS R file so clearly. The effect is even more pronounced with the under exposed examples I made for experimenting with pushing the levels.

                                                     

                                                    The jpegs uploaded here were made in Photoshop CS6 at max quality and each was sized to 1800x1200 pixels. These are 20.72%, 32.05%, and 41.21% reductions from the respective 5DS R, 5DmkII, and 5D files.

                                                     

                                                    Canon 5D ISO 100, f11, 1/4 second:

                                                    5D_F11iso100-07.jpg



                                                    Canon 5D ISO 100, f11, 1/4 second:

                                                    5DmkII_F11iso100-05.jpg



                                                    Canon 5DS R ISO 100, f11, 1/4 second:

                                                    5DS-R_F11iso100-07.jpg


                                                    It seems as if the 5D and 5DmkII photos look very similar in light value and the black level seems appropriate for the exposure. The results of using Adobe Camera RAW with my new Canon 5DS R look awful compared to the processing of my older cameras' files. The blacks are blocked and need to be recovered.

                                                    I have previously regarded claims that other RAW converters are superior to Adobe as unfounded and have assumed that Adobe is a leader with this sort of processing. Now I am reading that this new profile "look" has been made on purpose. It seems especially difficult to understand why this would be done this while considering the Canon cameras' reputation for having difficult to recover shadows. It seems as if the Adobe profiles are just going to exasperate the concerns and people's experience with Canon files and shadow recovery.

                                                     

                                                    I made a custom profile using the X-Rite ColorChecker system and the same lighting I used for the photo and the results show that the current Adobe 5DS R profiles are unlikely to ever be used in my future workflow. I will probably learn to rely on my own, or third party profiles:

                                                     

                                                    Canon 5DS R ISO 100, f11, 1/4 second with custom camera color profile:

                                                    5DS-R_F11iso100-07-MQ-Tungsten.jpg

                                                     

                                                      I have always assumed that Adobe would provide the most useful, sophisticated profiles. I am disappointed with the explanation that the blacks were crushed as a matter of taste.

                                                     

                                                    Below is an example where I started with a brighter exposure and tweaked many of the basic settings in Adobe Camera RAW in an effort to get the blacks where I wanted without having to worry about having noise show up. I lowered the exposure parameter to get the overall lighting I wanted while pushing the shadows and blacks parameters upwards to offset the lowered exposure settings.

                                                     

                                                    Canon 5DS R ISO 100, f11, 1/2 second with custom camera color profile:

                                                    5DS-R_F11iso100-04-MQ-tungsten-adjusted.jpg

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    I would like to take this opportunity to ask Eric Chan about his suggestion to use the sliders to counter act the crushing of the blacks. Does using a basic parameter slider after selecting the profile directly alter the tone curve mapping process or is the effect of a basic adjustment done after tone curve mapping has been processed? In other words if we use a basic adjustment to offset the result of a profile having clipped the blacks will there actually be any data to recover or will the data have already been clipped?

                                                     

                                                    Thank you.

                                                    • 24. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                                      LuxMirabilis Level 1

                                                      Did you create the camera profile using Adobe's Profile Editor or Xrite's  software? I heard that the latter had issues with large image files.

                                                      • 25. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                                        mike mccue Level 1

                                                        I made the profile I mentioned above using X-Rite, but you are right it has issues with large files in Win 7 x64. I used a smaller MRAW from my camera, but have since read that the MRAW format has an interim color conversion and so it seems unsuitable for best practice profile making.

                                                         

                                                        I have started making profiles, for the same lighting, using the Adobe DNG Profile Editor and the ColorChecker chart.

                                                         

                                                        I'd like to learn more about Adobe Profile Editor and I have seen numerous links to "extensive documentation" but all the links go dead at the Adobe Labs general info page. Searching out the docs is my project for today.

                                                        • 26. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                                          LuxMirabilis Level 1

                                                          On other cameras I found that profiles created by the Adobe tool and the Xrite tool produced different results for the same camera/illuminant. Subjectively, I thought the Xrite profile produces a better match to the ColorChecker target and shots of objects I know well.

                                                          • 27. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                                            mike mccue Level 1

                                                            That may be true. Unfortunately, the X-Rite software has a lot problems with large file sizes such as the 5DS and 5DS R produces and X-Rite hasn't announced an intention to provide a fix.

                                                             

                                                            Personally, I would have been happy to just use the Adobe profiles as I always have, but these new Adobe 5DS R profiles aren't useful as is so I have been exploring other options.

                                                            • 29. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                                              BKKDon Level 4

                                                              Hi Eric,

                                                               

                                                              I also have issues with the 5DS R and the closest I can get to an acceptable conversion is Camera Faithfull with Vibrance set to +10. With all due respect, the Adobe Standard is unusable and the Camera Standard is close to that also. The Camera Standard is acceptable for the 5D Mark III, but only acceptable.

                                                               

                                                              Don.

                                                              • 30. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                                                MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

                                                                If you prefer the less-contrasty tone curve that we used with earlier Canon models such as the 5D, 5D II, and 5D III, then as pointed out above, the most precise way to achieve that is to use the DNG Profile Editor, open a 5Ds / 5Ds R image (previously converted to DNG), and change the Base Tone Curve setting in the Tone Curve tab from Base Profile to Camera Raw Default. Then Export the new profile (File menu -> Export Profile...) and you can use that instead.  You can even make it your default profile, if you like.

                                                                 

                                                                As for Camera Standard and the others have higher-contrast tone curves than before ... well, those are designed to match the in-camera behavior (or Canon's own image processing routines in their desktop software, Digital Photo Professional). Thus, if you feel the DPP-based raw conversions for the 5Ds / 5Ds R have too much contrast, that's feedback I recommend you provide to Canon. In other words, we don't design the shape of the tone curves for Canon's Picture Styles -- Canon does.

                                                                • 31. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                                                  MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

                                                                  For your convenience, I've made "Medium Contrast" versions of the profiles if you want a lower-contrast default starting point.

                                                                   

                                                                  For the 5Ds:  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35081204/Canon%20EOS%205DS%20Medium%20Contrast.dcp

                                                                   

                                                                  For the 5Ds R:  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35081204/Canon%20EOS%205DS%20R%20Medium%20Contrast.dcp

                                                                   

                                                                  To install on the Mac, download and copy them here:  /Users/USERNAME/Library/Application Support/Adobe/CameraRaw/CameraProfiles/

                                                                   

                                                                  To install on Windows, download and copy them here:  C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles\

                                                                   

                                                                  Then re-run Camera Raw / Lightroom and you'll see the name "Medium Contrast" appear as an option in the Profile popup menu (in the Camera Calibration panel), as an alternative to the other profiles.

                                                                  • 32. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                                                    MayaTlab Level 1

                                                                    Thanks.

                                                                     

                                                                    As far as I'm concerned though, I haven't noticed any difference at all between the 5DSr and the 5DIII in DPP in terms of tonal curve. And on DPreview, the jpeg comparison doesn't seem to show any difference as well.

                                                                     

                                                                    I would still like to know why the 5DS(r) was singled out as the only camera to receive a different curve than "camera raw default" with the Adobe Standard profile. I could understand a coherent change from Adobe, where from the 5DS(r) on, all new cameras would receive a new, more contrasted curve, but The A7RII was released afterwards and I believe the curve used for its Adobe Standard is the camera raw default.

                                                                    • 34. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                                                      YanPhoto Level 1

                                                                      The profile that you created is exaclty what I need. Works perfectly with my 5Ds R. Thank you very much!

                                                                      • 35. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                                                        Almdudler Level 1

                                                                        I have tried you medium profile. It is very similar to what I get with passport color checker dual profiles och QP card profiles. They give a better result but that is only half the story.

                                                                        Now I have had a good dinner and some excellent vine. I think I better continue tomorrow when my head is clear.

                                                                        • 36. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                                                          Bruce in Philly Level 1

                                                                          I'll be honest with you madmanchan,  I am just EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED with Adobe's defaults for my 5DSr.  Here is a links to a RAW and JPG of an Eagle I took in direct sunlight yesterday.  The wings are just crushed.  This picture is awful and I blame the Adobe profile.  I've been shooting eagles at this popular spot in Maryland for 5 or six years with my 5D Mk II and I know what a good exposure should look like.  I nailed this exposure perfectly and the results are awful.  I actually thought there was something wrong with my new 5DSr and was about to return it to Canon's service center. 

                                                                           

                                                                          For this exposure, the trick is to expose enough to the right to get the eagle head as close to 100% as you can.  This will ensure nothing is blown out and the darker parts are clearly articulated.  In this shot, I got the head to be around 95-96% just perfect.  The eagle is in a hard bank right and the top wing is in direct afternoon sunlight and is just blacked out burnt.  It does not even look natural.  This is awful.  You guys really really upset me with this one.  I can't believe you actually thought this was a good idea.  Unbelievable.

                                                                           

                                                                          OK, so now for a real question.... .will colorchecker get me to where I need to be?  Back to "accuracy"?  I guess I have to spend money to turn a professional tool, LR, back into a professional tool.  I can't believe you chose to put POP into a $3,500 professional camera for our own good.  Unbelievable.  Whatever happened to the pursuit of accuracy?  LR is supposed to be for pros, not kids wanting to make a shout on Instagram.

                                                                           

                                                                          Bruce in Philly

                                                                          Eagle RAW: http://www.travelthroughpictures.com/bdd/photostuff/Eagle.CR2  (about 53 Meg!)

                                                                          Eagle JPG from LR6 with all defaults: http://www.travelthroughpictures.com/bdd/photostuff/Eagle.jpg

                                                                           

                                                                          Eagle.jpg

                                                                          • 37. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                                                            andyoakley Level 1

                                                                            I've installed the profile and it's a better starting point than the Adobe ones. Thank you.

                                                                            Are Adobe working on new profiles? The shadows on the standard, faithful etc adobe ones all have very crushed shadows and it would be great to have ones on a par with the 5diii profiles, which were excellent.

                                                                            • 38. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                                                              NitromanX Level 1

                                                                              Interesingly enough, I opened a raw file for the first time in Canon DPP4 and noticed that the contrast was initially set at -4 which i assume is DPP4 Default setting for 5Ds.

                                                                               

                                                                              When i set contrast to zero 0 the contrast was increased and the blacks got crushed again - exactly like the Adobe Standard Camera Profile Default.

                                                                               

                                                                              I think this may be the issue - The Canon Default sets contrast at -4 and the Adobe profile (which is based upon the Canon Profile) sets the contrast at zero 0 - Ie : Increased contrast, sharper curve and crushed blacks.

                                                                               

                                                                              I'm guessing Canon / Adobe need to resolve this as the default curve is way too steep.

                                                                               

                                                                              MadManChan2000 - would this make sense ? Any likelihood of Adobe updating the default ACR camera profile to equivalent of -4 contrast (Canon DPP4 default) ?

                                                                               

                                                                              In the meantime, thanks for the "Medium Contrast" profile - it's a life saver !

                                                                              1 person found this helpful
                                                                              • 39. Re: 5DS(r) tone curve in LR and ACR : crushed shadows with all profiles
                                                                                BKKDon Level 4

                                                                                NitromanX wrote:

                                                                                 

                                                                                Interesingly enough, I opened a raw file for the first time in Canon DPP4 and noticed that the contrast was initially set at -4 which i assume is DPP4 Default setting for 5Ds.

                                                                                ....

                                                                                In the meantime, thanks for the "Medium Contrast" profile - it's a life saver !

                                                                                Doesn't seem to happen for me as you can see from the DPP Panel here:

                                                                                 

                                                                                DPP 5DsR.jpg

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