So this re-architecture is supposed to be speeding things up? I haven't tested any renders myself, but I'm curious about if we can get a more thorough explanation than the link from above.
1. Should we be rendering out of 2014?
2. Is there something that isn't implemented yet? The link above seemed to hint at that, but was very vague about what exactly is happening.
3. What exactly are these architecture improvements speeding up?
What a nightmare. What that article says about multiple features is: "We took that out, and haven't put it back in yet." In short: Stick with 2014. At some point, 2015 will actually be suitable for release; update then.
If that's true this is crapola. I'm going to operate under the assumption that 2015 is good to go, and I'm not going to have insanely long renders tomorrow.
I've got a bunch of linked comps in a premiere timeline. Can, perhaps Todd comment on if this is going to render me to the grave tomorrow?
So in response to the linked article from above, long render times is one feature that needs to be prioritized. If rendering is now gimped, that needs to be the first and only thing that anyone at Adobe thinks about, company wide, until it is fixed.
I'm going to hold out hope that tomorrow is going to be a good day or rendering though. Right? RIGHT!?!?! Amirite???!?!?!?!?
IF you have a comp that works with multiprocessing, the recommended workflow is to work in CC 2015, then open that project file in CC 2014 to use multiprocessing.
The project files work between both versions without having to "Save As CC 2014" or any of that craziness.
The uninterrupted previews are the first step towards a much faster renderer that will replace the buggy multiprocessing. Seriously, multiprocessing is a ten-year-old hack to try to make the old software use the newer hardware. Many things would cause it to fail, bug out, or simply not work.
This is the first step in a massive update to the core of AE.
With 2015, they shipped us a program with some great workflow enhancements like uninterruptible previews and MUCH better expression error handling, but the improved rendering is going to have to wait for a future version.
If you'll recall, this is the big project that the majority of the AE team has been working on for the past year. It's a monumental task and I'm glad they're doing it. Enjoy the snappier interface in CC 2015 now, use multiprocessing in CC 2014 now, and enjoy faster rendering in the near future.
so then I guess the hundred dollar question is, just how much slower is the rendering in 2015 vs 2014? because I completely uninstalled 2014 off my machine. if its going to be a trillion times worse how do I get 2014 back on my machine?
also, if I have a bunch of After Effects compositions in the premiere timeline, is that going to take a render hit as well if I render out of premiere?
Chase Chick wrote:
so then I guess the hundred dollar question is, just how much slower is the rendering in 2015 vs 2014?
For me, on some projects, it's not slower at all. Compositions can vary so much on render time with what's inside them. And, don't forget, multiprocessing doesn't work in all compositions. Some expressions can disable it, as can some effects, as can some plugins. So, sometimes CC 2014 is faster, but sometimes it isn't. And, when it varies, it can be a big difference. Your computer specs will also affect how much difference (if any) there is.
Chase Chick wrote:
how do I get 2014 back on my machine?
Simply install the old version again. Instructions here: Install Previous Versions of Creative Cloud Apps. I have CS5, CS6, CC, CC 2014, and CC 2015 all installed on my machine at home. I like compatibility.
Chase Chick wrote:
Also, if I have a bunch of After Effects compositions in the premiere timeline, is that going to take a render hit as well if I render out of premiere?
Premiere couldn't use multiprocessing anyway, so it is likely to be the same.
So I guess my knowledge isn't as deep as it needs to be. So let me breeze through some workflow question. Aka, am I doin it right?
I rarely render out of ae. If anything I'll either fire up media encoder, or just put the comp in Premiere timeline? Are both these ways going to be gimped on using all threads of my machine? (I'm on 4770 with a titan x and 32 gigs of ram) I thought I was saving time by not having to render multiple times?
In consideration of a multithreaded render, or faster workflow, what is the best way to go in general?
Chase Chick wrote:
I thought I was saving time by not having to render multiple times?
If your composition doesn't disable multiprocessing, is fairly complicated, and if your computer is powerful enough, rendering a lossless intermediate out of AE CC 2014 and then compressing that to your deliverable format in Adobe Media Encoder is actually faster than sending your AE comp directly to AME would be. That's been true ever since you had the option to put an AE comp directly in AME and has nothing to do with CC 2015.
(Now, that's assuming that you don't intend to continue to work during the render. If you send it to AME and let it render while you work on the next project in AE, then obviously it would be faster to use AME.)
Rendering an AE comp directly in Premiere or AME has always been slower than doing it in AE's render queue, but Premiere and AME can do h.264 and AE can't (even when AE could, it sucked at it).
So, to sum up, if AE CC 2015 works for you, use it! It's got great interface speed and I like it a lot. Then, plop your AE comp right into AME CC 2015 since that's your usual workflow anyway. Your final render speed will likely be the same as if you were using CC 2014. Or, if you want a faster render, try opening it up in AE CC 2014 and rendering an intermediate file from the render queue.
The problem with knowing exactly what the right thing to do is, is that each computer and each project are different. You learn through experience what works best on your system. If you have the time, try some tests with older projects of various kinds to see what workflow is best for you.
(And join me in looking forward to the next major version of AE which should have some significant increases in render speed for multiple core machines!)
Hey Szalam, you wrote: "(even when AE could, it sucked at it)."
I've seen others say this, but I find I sorely miss it, and it was great for quick renders to show clients. I've seen the workarounds for exporting AME, but that comes with disrupted workflow, takes longer, and requires different memory management, etc. I never understood what was so "sucky" about it?
I find myself using the last version that supported MP4/h264 output because of this, unless I absolutely need a newer feature.
Well to me, the "sucky part" was that it only worked with ideal circumstances in AE. As Szalam stated, it would often be disabled if certain effects were used (Twixtor is one I know of) and in rare circumstances, it could even cause crashes when AE goes to invoke multiprocessing by "opening" multiple instances of the AE render engine. Add in the bugginess of AE initializing Quicktime for ProRes renders, and you could see adverse effects, even with optimal multiprocessing comps.
Admaneer: You misunderstood ... he (and I) was talking about the removal of MP4/H264 (and other formats) from the AE Render engine.
The people who talk about AE's MP4 encoding being crap are usually the professional types who are a bit obsessive about this sort of thing! haha
It was a poorly done encoder. AE couldn't even do multipass encoding!
Basically, AME can get a higher quality video at smaller file sizes than AE's render could. Would the average viewer notice a difference? Maybe, maybe not - it all depends on the settings chosen and end result required.
I understand how easy a quick h.264 render for client review was - I used it sometimes too (don't tell anyone), but cutting out a poorly functioning part of the software to give them time to make the more wide-ranging and useful improvements to the overall software seems like a reasonable trade to me. (I'd really like Adobe to give the AE team more people, so we could have all the things, but alas...)
I don't believe I misunderstood at all. At least not based on the OP and the prior posts my comment was in response to. In any case, rendering to MP4 is a waste of time, even if it was still available through After Effects' native render engine. If you render out to ProRes or lossless and then use Handbrake or AME to convert to MP4, it takes almost no time at all. And if your client approves the render, or even just part of it, you can use the HQ render in place of parts of your comp to cut down on future rendering time. Plus, Handbrake will give you a much smaller file size than a native MP4 render would, which is great since uploading to corporate FTP servers or sending drafts through email can be fairly limited.
What a disaster! I just updated my render nodes without knowing in advance they would completely cripple their product! I'm not sure I know how to go back to 2014. They should just *DELETE* AE CC 2015.
Well I spent all night undoing the update, but it's as simple as copying back the program directories in C:\program files\adobe from a backup. I'm glad I had one.
I don't believe I misunderstood at all. At least not based on the OP and the prior posts my comment was in response to.
Sorry, but you were commenting on the wrong aspect. My reply was to Szalam about MP4 encoding, not the OP. NO biggie, just wanted to clarify your confusion.
In any case, rendering to MP4 is a waste of time, even if it was still available through After Effects' native render engine. If you render out to ProRes or lossless and then use Handbrake or AME to convert to MP4, it takes almost no time at all.
Sorry, but I've read this workaround (and that is what it is) nonsense before. First of all ... NO, it is in not a "waste of time," in fact that is my point ... it was/is MUCH faster (no comparison) to be able to render out to MP4 (or WMV for that matter) DIRECTLY than to intermediate renders and re-encoding those renders. How you, or anyone else, can seriously make that claim is beyond obnoxious at this point.
And if your client approves the render, or even just part of it, you can use the HQ render in place of parts of your comp to cut down on future rendering time. Plus, Handbrake will give you a much smaller file size than a native MP4 render would, which is great since uploading to corporate FTP servers or sending drafts through email can be fairly limited.
It just about NEVER works out that way, and even the idea of perhaps saving time by replacing footage would seldom pan out, as any change in tempo/timing, etc. would render (forgive the pun) it moot. MP4's are plenty small enough, especially for the small segments one is generally sending to the client, even on a longer piece. I have a 100-mbit connection, and my clients generally have something nearly that fast (sometimes faster), so it's non-issue.
I'm glad the lack of export options hasn't effected your type of work, but for myself and many others it caused a major blow to workflow/productivity, and thus we end up using older versions. Also, I am unclear as to how leaving it in (like with the legacy mode) hurts anything? Seems like the code for the render-out engine could easily be compartmentalized, no?