12 Replies Latest reply on Jul 27, 2015 10:43 PM by Todd_Kopriva

    Appalling - video not realtime without any FX in AE CC 2015!

    Yes Captain

      I just tried AE CC 2015.  I simply added some HD video to a timeline and got 15-18fps on the first play.  I'm adding nothing to the video and it still has to put frames into memory.  Why?


      Why is realtime playback so difficult in 2015?  Why do you keep adding gimmicky new features instead of fixing the basics?  Why can Premiere or even Apple Motion play video and not AE in realtime?


      I'm on a 3GHz 8Core Intel Xeon Mac Pro with 64Gb Ram, running OX 10.10.3. This is CRAPTACULAR.



        • 1. Re: Appalling - video not realtime without any FX in AE CC 2015!
          adamneer Level 2

          When Premiere or even Apple Motion can do HALF as much as AE, I'll grant this a fair comparison.  But I'd say the benefits of AE's caching system far outweigh the slowness of an initial playback.  If AE worked the same as Premiere, don't you think they would have simply merged the programs long ago?

          • 2. Re: Appalling - video not realtime without any FX in AE CC 2015!
            Yes Captain Level 1

            This is over a year ago and watch how much Apple Motion can do with realtime playback, that AE still can't do!

            After Effects Comparison on Vimeo

             

            I'm not saying Apple Motion is a replacement.  It's sad that Apple have neglected it.  I'm saying why is a program over 20 years old still incapable of the most basic abilities.  Why doesn't AE take better advantage of modern hardware?

             

            I'm praying that Blackmagic Fusion 8 is a real competitor.

            • 3. Re: Appalling - video not realtime without any FX in AE CC 2015!
              adamneer Level 2

              As Todd Kopriva pointed out on another discussion board, your examples are not based in the core workflow of After Effects.  No one uses AE for a simple key and background comp.  More importantly, the number of people using Motion, either professionally or for personal use, is a mere fraction of those that depend on AE for a living.  It is much easier for Apple to rewrite Motion from the ground up without greatly disturbing the people who rely on their software than it would be for Adobe to rewrite AE, while maintaining the insane amount of functionality it has built up over the last 10 years.  Just look at the backlash that Apple caused when they released FCPX.  Many jumped ship entirely and went over to Premiere Pro, simply because it functioned the most similarly to what they were used to.  If you think the entire industry of AE artists who have learned to deal with its shortcomings would be happy to oblige Adobe in coming to a dead stop with AE as we know it in order to rewrite it from the ground up, you're crazy.  The simple fact is, people have been getting along quite well for many years with the "appealing" slowness of After Effects.  The global cache addition was an excellent way to speed things up where possible, and the enhancements to the expressions engine that are part of CC2015 are also going to do wonders for workflow improvement.  If the speed of basic abilities is all you're concerned with, perhaps you'd be best just using the more basic programs like Premiere and Motion.  Or, perhaps you could supply some of your knowledge and passion for improvement by joining Adobe's development team.

              • 4. Re: Appalling - video not realtime without any FX in AE CC 2015!
                Yes Captain Level 1

                I'm crazy for wanting the app I use everyday to be fast?  To grow with the times? 

                 

                I didn't say basic speed abilities is all I'm concerned with, but that actually highlights my point is, if they can't get this right after 20 years, why bother requesting other fixes?  The very nature of the feature's name "improved previews" suggests it's better but not great!

                 

                I use Cinema 4D and AE on a daily basis.  3D apps are now doing amazing things with GPU rendering for one.  Game changing stuff to work faster, preview faster, render faster.  This is fundamental in being able to design on the fly, make changes, react, art direct - without waiting for a preview or render.  Yet AE still can't play video in realtime.  There's many things I want AE to be able to do (timeline folders anyone?), and I use it for many different jobs, and have done since the 90s.  Many features are very good (such as tracking and roto tools), but fundamentally, in my view, it's a bloated app, where new gimmicks are added each year  to justify the release or lure new customers, without fixing basic needs that pro users have, and because it lacks competition in the Motion Graphics space, it can get away with it.  The Character Animator feature is one example of a gimmick.  Now producers and clients will believe character animation is quick and easy and therefore cheaper to produce.  A tool like that devalues the art and only serves to produce templated, simplistic results with unrealistic expectations.  But by your logic, we'd still be using apps and operating systems of a decade ago, just in case we upset someone.  People can adjust and get used to new ideas, interfaces, and operating systems - take multi touch as an example.  Especially if there are major benefits in the user experience.

                • 5. Re: Appalling - video not realtime without any FX in AE CC 2015!
                  Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  I'm not having any problems getting real time playback even on the wimpiest of my Macs, a mid 2011 Mac Mini. It does take a few seconds to cache everything, and if I make changes to an effect or modify any of the transform properties while the playback is running it takes a few seconds to catch up. This makes me wonder about a few things on your system. What format is the video? What codec? What else do you have running. Did you try resetting the preferences? 

                  • 6. Re: Appalling - video not realtime without any FX in AE CC 2015!
                    Yes Captain Level 1

                    I got 15-18fps on the first play


                    Yes, after it caches it plays in realtime (occasionally dropping) - but why would unaffected video need to cache - there is nothing to cache.  Quicktime can play the video.  Spacebar in Finder can play the video.  So why can't AE.  It just seems strange to me that I have to put it into RAM in order to see it - basic functionality!


                    The video was 1080 ProRess 422, coming off a Thunderbolt 2 raid.

                    • 7. Re: Appalling - video not realtime without any FX in AE CC 2015!
                      adamneer Level 2

                      I think you've oversimplified quite a bit all that's involved in developing such a complex piece of software as AE. To fault them for being behind the times in hardware capabilities is assuming they can continually and reliably predict upcoming hardware trends and concurrently design around them.  The rate at which technology has been progressing over the past 10 years is exponential in comparison to the previous 10 years, and this is all in the "post-pc era", where many leading tech companies are highly secretive about their upcoming products.  Instead, Adobe has been doing the best they can to continually build upon a foundation which stretches back much farther than octa-core chips in cell phones.  Could they perhaps have done a better job at future-proofing some of their software? Maybe, but that is of little consequence in dealing with the here and now.

                       

                      You've touched on a subject that I think you equate to being the core problem here, which is that they lack competition in the space.  But it's possible that this is just further evidence as to the difficulty of creating an enormously complex program while constantly keeping it up to your standards.  Maybe one of the reasons they don't have much competition here is that it's no small or even medium task to do so.  Certainly we're not all such slaves to Adobe software that we wouldn't welcome a competitor with open arms, even if the interface seemed foreign to us.  But no other company has come anywhere close to providing the functionality of After Effects, as even your own comments admit.

                       

                      I agree that there are things that Adobe could focus more attention on rather than the whiz bang features that get tossed aside in a year or two, but they often use these one-offs as a means to an end.  I've read of several instances where an unpopular feature was actually a way for the developers to explore technologies with much broader use potential.  Of course, they have also admitted to the need for some of these features for marketing tactics, and to a certain point, you can't blame them.  They do need to keep their revenue flowing in order to pay for a constant improvement of their software.  At least the AE team is extremely passionate, and amazingly, they maintain constant interaction with their user base, which is something you can't at all say about other developers of their scale.  They read feature requests and respond to forums, all while trying their best to put out software for machines that are ever-evolving.  It's no small task.

                       

                      At some point, you have to get over your wants and wishes and just work with what you're given.  Many AE artists have learned to deal with its shortcomings and focus their creative efforts on their work.  I'd say this is much more productive than being preoccupied with a software's inadequacies for years on end.

                      • 8. Re: Appalling - video not realtime without any FX in AE CC 2015!
                        Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        James Cowen wrote:

                         

                        I got 15-18fps on the first play


                        Yes, after it caches it plays in realtime (occasionally dropping) - but why would unaffected video need to cache - there is nothing to cache.  Quicktime can play the video.  Spacebar in Finder can play the video.  So why can't AE.  It just seems strange to me that I have to put it into RAM in order to see it - basic functionality!


                        That's to be expected. Why? Because After Effects doesn't work with a video stream like an NLE or video player does. All pixel-based compositing apps (like Nuke, After Effects, etc.) work with completely uncompressed pixel information for every frame. That means ALL of them have to cache it before playback.

                        • 9. Re: Appalling - video not realtime without any FX in AE CC 2015!
                          ForumNinja Level 1

                          I'm with you on this., My beef with 2015 is that they ditched the RAM preview, which played back in real time. With the new system, you cache frames and it doesn't playback in real time, it just re caches frames again, it slows the whole workflow down. You can scrub pretty well but you cannot play it back. Rubbish. At least grant us legacy RAM preview for god sake, this is screwing my workflow. And yes, they focus way too much on adding stupid new feature like face detection, come on... This isn't an iPhone app!

                           

                          EDIT: The way to use the new Preview, if you want to do real time is to select  Resolution to "Auto", Frame rate to "auto" Skip to 2, or 3. and "Preview Favors "Frame Rate". You have to favor frame rate for it to play real time, but at higher res or no skip frames it will likely cache only about 10 frames. If you favor Length it will cache the whole work bar (or what ever you select under "range" but it will not play back in real time, just gives you each frame slowly if you need to preview details rather than animation timing. I dont know why it will not just cache longer preview and play it back, I thought it would just be like rendering the video and playing it back through a player., Maybe it isn't and it should be! Just have an option to render low res video and have it play back in a reference monitor or something...

                          • 10. Re: Appalling - video not realtime without any FX in AE CC 2015!
                            Yes Captain Level 1

                            Finally someone with a brain!

                             

                            It's diabolical, especially with audio.  It runs through once to cache, but then struggles to play audio on the second run - impossible to judge my work with audio being so intermittent.  Timeline indicator disappears from view here and there too.  Agree - they should have given the legacy option too, but perhaps too hard to program.  They amount of bugs, random errors and crashes I've encountered in CC 2015 is shocking.  They clearly rushed this out.  A Beta at best.  I'm stuck with it, no option to roll back to CC 2014 because just days before the new AE was coming (without knowing it was about to drop) I did a fresh reinstall of Mac OSX for a tidy up of my system.  So then creative cloud doesn't even give me the option to install 2014.  So much for paying for software and expecting it to work well.

                            • 11. Re: Appalling - video not realtime without any FX in AE CC 2015!
                              Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Yes Captain wrote:

                              I'm stuck with it, no option to roll back to CC 2014 ...

                              ....creative cloud doesn't even give me the option to install 2014.

                              You can definitely install CC 2014 (or CC or CS6). See this: http://blogs.adobe.com/adobecare/2015/06/16/how-to-find-and-install-previous-version-of-ad obe-apps-in-cc-2015/

                               

                              The AE team has said we can expect an update for AE CC 2015 to fix most of the major bugs pretty soon - targeted for the end of the month, I believe.

                              • 12. Re: Appalling - video not realtime without any FX in AE CC 2015!
                                Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                The After Effects CC 2015 (13.5.1) bug-fix update is available, which fixes several preview issues: http://adobe.ly/1Il5JYe