35 Replies Latest reply on Jun 25, 2015 12:17 AM by JohnH99

    Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw

    JohnH99 Level 1

      I have recently upgraded my DSLR to a Canon 70D but still use LR3 that I have ben using for some years.  LR3 won't import the CR2 files although the Elements 12 that I also use launches the raw conversion OK.   LR 3.6 Camera Raw 5.6  so should be OK?

       

      How do I get LR3 to do the same thing?

       

      Thanks

       

      Message was edited by: John Heelan

        • 1. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
          dj_paige Level 9

          You need either:

           

          Lightroom 5.2 or later (the current version is 6.1)

           

          OR

           

          Download the FREE Adobe DNG Converter Version 8.2 or later and use that to convert your RAW photos to DNG, and then import the DNGs into Lightroom 3.

          • 2. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
            JohnH99 Level 1

            I can't afford to upgrade LR.  The DNG route looks a bit lossy e.g. on test files CR2 24.3 becomes DNG 20.4: 27.6 (23.2): 28.2 (23.7) - it looks like the CR2:DNG conversion loses 16% of the raw data.

            • 3. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
              JohnH99 Level 1

              Cost of upgrade £99, Adobe's CC subscription service seems to cause a lot of complaints about how they handle the credit cards and Adobe do not offer the safer Direct Debit system in the Uk although they do so in Germany.  So upgrading or taking out a CC subscription are  not reasonable options for me.

              • 4. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                Keith_Reeder Level 4

                JohnH99 wrote:

                 

                Adobe's CC subscription service seems to cause a lot of complaints about how they handle the credit cards

                Where do you get this notion?

                • 5. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                  dj_paige Level 9

                  DNG can be either Lossy or Non-Lossy. You have the option in the converter.

                   

                  Do not judge by file size, this will mislead you. Even the non-Lossy DNGs should be smaller than the corresponding RAW.

                  • 6. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                    JohnH99 Level 1

                    See https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1338437https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1335506, , https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1818775https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1569468 https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1398405   Google adobe credit card problems site:forums.adobe.com for more complaints      

                     

                          From: Keith_Reeder <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

                    To: John Heelan <johnheelan@btinternet.com>

                    Sent: Tuesday, 23 June 2015, 18:30

                    Subject:  Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw

                        

                     

                     

                    Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw

                    created by Keith_Reeder in Photoshop Lightroom - View the full discussion

                    JohnH99 wrote: Adobe's CC subscription service seems to cause a lot of complaints about how they handle the credit cards

                    Where do you get this notion? If the reply above answers your question, please take a moment to mark this answer as correct by visiting: https://forums.adobe.com/message/7681656#7681656 and clicking ‘Correct’ below the answer Replies to this message go to everyone subscribed to this thread, not directly to the person who posted the message. To post a reply, either reply to this email or visit the message page: Please note that the Adobe Forums do not accept email attachments. If you want to embed an image in your message please visit the thread in the forum and click the camera icon: https://forums.adobe.com/message/7681656#7681656 To unsubscribe from this thread, please visit the message page at , click "Following" at the top right, & "Stop Following"  Start a new discussion in Photoshop Lightroom by email or at Adobe Community For more information about maintaining your forum email notifications please go to https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1516624.

                     

                    • 7. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                      JohnH99 Level 1

                      I specified  non-lossy in the DNG converter but it still lost 16% of the file data.

                       

                            From: dj_paige <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

                      To: John Heelan <johnheelan@btinternet.com>

                      Sent: Tuesday, 23 June 2015, 18:52

                      Subject:  Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw

                          

                       

                       

                      Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw

                      created by dj_paige in Photoshop Lightroom - View the full discussionDNG can be either Lossy or Non-Lossy. You have the option in the converter. Do not judge by file size, this will mislead you. If the reply above answers your question, please take a moment to mark this answer as correct by visiting: https://forums.adobe.com/message/7681729#7681729 and clicking ‘Correct’ below the answer Replies to this message go to everyone subscribed to this thread, not directly to the person who posted the message. To post a reply, either reply to this email or visit the message page: Please note that the Adobe Forums do not accept email attachments. If you want to embed an image in your message please visit the thread in the forum and click the camera icon: https://forums.adobe.com/message/7681729#7681729 To unsubscribe from this thread, please visit the message page at , click "Following" at the top right, & "Stop Following"  Start a new discussion in Photoshop Lightroom by email or at Adobe Community For more information about maintaining your forum email notifications please go to https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1516624.

                       

                      • 8. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                        JohnH99 Level 1
                        • 9. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                          Bob Somrak Level 5

                          As DJ said, with non-lossy DNG you are supposedly  not losing any RAW data.  If you are concerned about loss of quality in you photos you should be upgrading to a newer version of Lightroom.  Lr3 uses Process Version 2010 and the newer versions use Process Version 2012 with DIFFERENT sliders and algorithms.  As far as I am concerned, the photos processed in PV2012 look WAY better than the same ones processed in PV2010.  Its a shame to use a new camera with an old version of Lightroom.

                          • 10. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                            JohnH99 Level 1

                            I wish I could!  However to repeat "Cost of upgrade £99, Adobe's CC subscription service seems to cause a lot of complaints about how they handle the credit cards and Adobe do not offer the safer Direct Debit system in the Uk although they do so in Germany.  So upgrading or taking out a CC subscription are  not reasonable options for me."

                             

                            (LR3 and ACR worked fine with RAW CR2 files from my previous 600D)

                            • 11. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                              dj_paige Level 9

                              JohnH99 wrote:

                               

                              Non-lossy will still result in reduced file sizes compared to RAW, but no loss of image data. This is a feature of DNG!

                               

                              Non-lossy DNG did not lose 16% of the image data. It loses 0% of the image data.

                               

                              And as I said, as long as you are looking at file sizes, you will be mis-led. Do not use file sizes to infer quality of the image.

                              • 12. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                JohnH99 Level 1

                                I would be grateful if you could tell me how less data does not impact image quality.

                                • 13. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                  99jon Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  I have been converting my CR2 files to DNG for many years. There is no loss of data. The DNG wrapper is simply a more efficient file for use in Adobe applications. The file will always be smaller because it doesn’t contain the embedded jpeg preview. This is what you see on the LCD screen when shooting raw. Lightroom generates its own previews.

                                   

                                  P.S. adobe now accepts subscription by PayPal.

                                  • 14. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                    dj_paige Level 9

                                    I would be grateful if you could tell me how less data does not impact image quality.

                                    The non-lossy DNG is not less data. Every single pixel remains unchanged.

                                     

                                    It uses a non-lossy compression to make the file smaller. It does not throw away or alter pixels.

                                     

                                    And if you're so concerned about image quality, and you're willing to spend money on a new camera, then as Bob Somrak implied, you're being penny wise and pound foolish ... you are committed to using a lower quality image processor in Lightroom 3 compared to the much higher image quality you get from Lightroom 6.

                                    • 15. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                      John Waller Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      John Heelan wrote:

                                       

                                      I would be grateful if you could tell me how less data does not impact image quality.

                                      You seem to be fixed to the notion that file size and image quality are directly linked.

                                       

                                      Smaller file size does not mean less pixels or reduced image quality.

                                      • 16. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                        JohnH99 Level 1

                                        Thanks for the responses, I now understand why the file sizes are different.   (Re Paypal : I am not clear whether Paypal has the same problem as credit card companies in cancelling recurring payments (i.e. Continuous Payment Authority)  i.e.

                                         

                                        "You have a LEGAL RIGHT to have payments cancelled.
                                        Even if companies refuse, banks MUST cancel them for you.

                                        But banks and card providers often ignore this. The Financial Conduct Authority, which regulates the financial industry, published the results of an investigation into CPAs in June 2013.

                                        It found many banks and building societies failed to cancel payments when asked, telling customers they would have to contact the retailer to cancel. The FCA also ruled that banks and card providers should refund money taken from customer accounts after they tried to cancel."

                                        (see Continuous payment authority: manage recurring payments)

                                        So far I have not received an answer on this point from Paypal, whom I have used successfully for most of my online transactions for the last couple of years.

                                        • 17. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                          Bob Somrak Level 5

                                          I don't see why you are worried about if there is a loss of data when you convert to DNG (which there probably isn't) because if you insist on sticking with Lr3 and want to use RAW you HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE than to convert to DNG. Your quality loss is using Pv2010 instead of PV2012.  I reedited all (or at least most) of my PV2010 photos in PV2012 and did not find ANY that I liked better in the old Process Version.

                                          • 18. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                            ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            When you sign up for a CC subscription from Adobe you are agreeing to pay an annual subscription amount that is billed in 12 parts over those 12 months.  For example, in the US the Photography Subscription is $120/year billed at $10/month for that year.  You cannot cancel the subscription in the middle of the 12 months and expect to owe nothing more—Adobe charges half the remaining as a penalty as a disincentive to cancelling early, but at the end of the 12 months you can decide whether to subscribe for another 12 months or not. 

                                             

                                            In the US, at least, you can also buy subscription cards for the full 12 month amount (e.g. $120) so you’re not getting billed every month.

                                             

                                            The links you cited seem to be about a few “processing anomalies” that would happen in any company with millions of subscribers, not a structural defect in Adobe’s processing that you somehow have to avoid by using a service that Adobe doesn’t offer in your area of the world.

                                             

                                            What is the specific issue you have with using Credit Cards or PayPal?  Are you wanting to cancel partway through a year?

                                            • 19. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                              JohnH99 Level 1

                                              I have no problem with either credit cards or Paypal, both of which I use all the time.  Neither  would I want to cancel a subscription in the middle of the agreed term.

                                               

                                              I DO have a problem with the apparent difficulty of cancelling a Continuous Payment Agreement (CPA) AFTER the 12 month term is finished.

                                               

                                              Your "few processing anomalies" might be a tiny percentage of the overall "millions" but for the individual subscriber it is a 100% problem.  The evidence from the blogs suggests that Adobe's credit card processing for CC is flawed, making such a cancellation not only difficult  (maybe impossible?) as well as recovery of overpayments.

                                               

                                              Buying it outright also has its problems as the alleged lack of upgrade paths from LR4 and 5 to LR6 seem to indicate. A cynic might think that such a lack is a marketing lever to force people to take out CC subscriptions.

                                               

                                              The UK Direct Debit system (also in Germany) is far more secure payment method in which the subscriber retains control of the payment schedule and amount as well as being covered by UK law whereas the CPA system is far more risky and causes problems. (See Continuous payment authority: manage recurring payments).

                                               

                                              I have raised this problem several times with Adobe (but without any response) stating that I will not subscribe to CC until they change the payment method.  No response, so I shall vote with my feet to another package.   Pity because I like LR and PSE and use them all the time.

                                              • 20. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                                99jon Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                You can buy an annual (one-off payment of £99.99) subscription to the photography plan from Amazon UK. Obviously you pay in advance but no need to give Adobe your card details to store.

                                                • 21. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                                  Geoff the kiwi Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  You have paid how much for a camera and won't pay for the software to work the files?? Incredible but there you are... A quick Google  search of Lightroom pricing in the UK shows the upgrade is available at 59 pounds not 99......

                                                   

                                                  Certainly the most cost effective is to use DNG but long term as has been stated the current Lightroom is the best. The plan you choose and how you pay is a matter of the choices available, not those that aren't.

                                                  • 22. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                                    99jon Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    To summarise:

                                                    You can upgrade to LR6 for £59.09. You can still use PSE for pixel editing, layers text etc.

                                                    Get LR CC & Photoshop CC for £99.99 and always be up to date with new features as they are released.

                                                    • 23. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                                      JohnH99 Level 1

                                                      Thanks for the info- much of it I was aware of of course.  :-)) 

                                                       

                                                      There are conflicting opinions on the Amazon LR blog about whether one can upgrade from LR3.6 to LR6 using the £59.09 Upgrade package. viz

                                                      Question was :

                                                      " Can I use the Adobe Photoshop LR 5 Upgrade Edition to upgrade from LR3.6?"


                                                      Conflicting answers were:

                                                      "I don't think you can - or Adobe have hidden the method. I hear some users simply couldn't run it anyway because of the much higher computer specs required. Adobe does a standalone version of LR6 - (doesn't require Creative Cloud subscription). It's more expensive but there's not even an upgrade path for LR5 to LR6."

                                                      "Yes. You should be able to upgrade from any version if your PC can handle it. All you need is the serial number from your current version".


                                                       

                                                      • 24. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                                        JohnH99 Level 1

                                                        Quite right!  If the payment choice is not available then I won't buy and Adobe loses the business.

                                                        • 25. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                                          99jon Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                          You can buy the upgrade version of LR5 from Amazon. You get the box with discs. Should be no problems installing as long as you have your LR3 serial number. From LR6 Adobe have now stopped selling upgrades through independent retailers and you can only get the full priced product.

                                                           

                                                          You can buy LR6 from the following link. After clicking "Buy" change from Full to Upgrade; then select your existing LR product from the drop-down menu and the correct pricing will be displayed. Then simply choose “Add to Cart”

                                                           

                                                          https://www.adobe.com/products/catalog/software._sl_id-contentfilter_sl_catalog_sl_softwar e_sl_mostpopular.html

                                                          • 26. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                                            Geoff the kiwi Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                            You can choose from what is available, they are the choices. You are free to choose what you like including using other applications.

                                                             

                                                            Re the comment about upgrading from 3.6 to 6.1, yes it is possible if your computer is up to spec, simple as that.

                                                            • 27. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                                              JohnH99 Level 1

                                                              Thanks

                                                              • 28. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                                                JohnH99 Level 1

                                                                New iMac desktop/Yosemite should be OK?

                                                                • 30. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                                                  JohnH99 Level 1

                                                                  It also looks like Paypal has a method of cancelling recurrent payments at the end of a contract.  I just now need to check on Paypal Forums whether actually works OK in practice.

                                                                  • 31. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                                                    ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                    What does UK Law say about cancelling in the middle of the annual subscription?  Maybe Adobe can’t use it if the law allows users to cancel partway through, rather than only at the end of the 12 months?  t’s not always the law that is perfect and the company that is evil.  Sometimes, or many times, it is the other way around, when the law is applied to something other than the original situation it was designed to prevent, which is fraudulent billing by companies that refuse to cancel subscriptions as their primary source of income, which is not what Adobe is doing.  It could also be that the relative market loss of not offering the non-US-based payment system in the UK is about cost-benefit, where the loss of business due to not supporting it is less than the cost of implementing it and/or paying the fees associated with offering it. 

                                                                     

                                                                    As already stated you can pay once and use for a year without needing a CPA interaction.

                                                                     

                                                                    If you buy the serial-number-licensed LR 6 as opposed to the CC-login-licensed LR 2015 you won’t get NEW FEATURE updates until LR 7.  So far LR 2015.1 has Dehaze and Blacks/Whites sliders added to Gradient, Radial and Adjustment Brush adjustments.  LR 6 users will have to wait for LR 7.  Both LR 6.x and LR 2015.x will get bug fixes and camera support updates.

                                                                    • 32. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                                                      JohnH99 Level 1

                                                                      My understanding of UK contract law , the direct debit system and the CC contract ts&cs suggests that should a subscriber cancel the agreement mid-term, Adobe could claim the outstanding months of the contract in a single hit by Direct Debit.  If so, Adobe are would not be at risk. 

                                                                       

                                                                      However a subscriber taking out a CPA- via a credit card- with Adobe is at risk of payments being extracted long after the contract term has expired with no protection from the credit card company.  If the same thing happened with a Direct Debit, the law states that the bank must repay the sums claimed and then would probably seek repayment from the company.

                                                                       

                                                                      However, in my case, that is academic as I will not take out a CPA via a credit card.  Paypal seems to have a reliable recurring payment system which can be cancelled at the end of the contract term thus protecting the subscriber from overpayment.  I am investigating from the forums of Paypal users how reliable that it  is and how it really works in practice.

                                                                      • 33. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                                                        Geoff the kiwi Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                        I am sure Adobe have enough lawyers to work out the most suitable payment methods worldwide...

                                                                         

                                                                        However the Guidelines for forum use state:

                                                                        "Don't

                                                                        • Discuss legal issues or Adobe patents."


                                                                        Here: https://forums.adobe.com/docs/DOC-2326


                                                                        So please refrain from further discussion of legalities, thanks.

                                                                        John Heelan wrote:

                                                                         

                                                                        My understanding of UK contract law , the direct debit system and the CC contract ts&cs suggests that should a subscriber cancel the agreement mid-term, Adobe could claim the outstanding months of the contract in a single hit by Direct Debit.  If so, Adobe are would not be at risk.

                                                                         

                                                                        However a subscriber taking out a CPA- via a credit card- with Adobe is at risk of payments being extracted long after the contract term has expired with no protection from the credit card company.  If the same thing happened with a Direct Debit, the law states that the bank must repay the sums claimed and then would probably seek repayment from the company.

                                                                         

                                                                        However, in my case, that is academic as I will not take out a CPA via a credit card.  Paypal seems to have a reliable recurring payment system which can be cancelled at the end of the contract term thus protecting the subscriber from overpayment.  I am investigating from the forums of Paypal users how reliable that it  is and how it really works in practice.


                                                                        • 34. Re: Lightroom 3 and Canon 70D raw
                                                                          JohnH99 Level 1

                                                                          "I am sure Adobe have enough lawyers to work out the most suitable payment methods worldwide..."  I am sure that have as well. Presumably they also have enough marketing people to observe feedback from customers that some Adobe strategies a dissuading potential customers.

                                                                           

                                                                          "Don't

                                                                          • Discuss legal issues or Adobe patents." ?????

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                          Mmmm!  One wonders what would frighten Adobe about such discussions?

                                                                           

                                                                          (BTW my response was to ss prensel who asked me "What does UK Law say about cancelling in the middle of the annual subscription?  Maybe Adobe can’t use it if the law allows users to cancel partway through, rather than only at the end of the 12 months?".  That request did not get the same response from you,)