19 Replies Latest reply on Jul 24, 2017 3:09 PM by iawood

    Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences

    Drew_599

      I've been searching high and low looking for a way to turn off the "Image-Adaptive" settings in ACR that doesn't involve me rolling back to the 2010 or 2003 processes. I shoot timelapse and ACR sometimes gives me some really bad flicker in the sky and in other parts of the frame depending on what is going on in the frame. What I need from Adobe is a way to keep these same 2012 process in ACR and Lightroom but make it so the values are fixed and don't change based on what's going on in a frame. That would be a huge help.

        • 1. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
          septn

          Im having the exact same problem. 2012 creates nasty flicker. but it has a better color engine : (

          • 2. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
            Drew_599 Level 1

            I love the color engine as well. But the non-linear adjustments with the clarity, highlight, shadow and contrast sliders is a serious problem. If there was a way to keep the same look but not have that look change based on the content of the image that would be so much more helpful.

            • 3. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
              Drew_599 Level 1

              Adobe, are you guys going to even look into this because this is a huge problem. Would be nice if you guys just popped your head in here and said something like, "tough **** deal with it" instead of just ignoring it. I can't reiterate this enough, its a huge problem. Give us control to turn this image-adaptive thing off without having to roll back to the 2010 process.

              • 4. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
                Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Time lapse must be shot with manual exposure and all images must be processed exactly the same. You cannot expect to have consistent exposure using any kind of automated or even manual adjustments to the image. I've been doing a fair amount of time-lapse for more than 45 years starting out filming clouds and fog rolling through the valleys in the Olympic Peninsula in Washington state and moving to thunderstorms rolling through the Grand Canyon. All shot on 16mm and 35mm film. The longest time-lapse project I ever worked on was on the eastern side of Glacier National Park about 10 miles from Chief mountain. We packed in on horseback the summer before the shot and picked out location and poured a concrete base for the camera to rest on. The next spring we came back and set up a 35mm Mitchell camera with a Tobin animation controller mounted on a motor driven geared head and shot multiple day long passes with the camera following the sun as it crossed the sky. We started as soon as the snow had melted enough to let us pack in, returned every two weeks until the winter snows prevented us from packing back in. The entire thing was shot at F-8 with an ND9 filter unless the entire day was going to be overcast. Then we shot at f5.6. The speed of the pan and the frame rate were matched to the time between sunrise and sunset, then we cut all the film together blending frames from each take so the snow melted as the sun rose, the grass grew and wild flowers bloomed as morning passed, the trees filled out then the leaves turned gold as evening approached and the snow fell and covered the sound as the sun set. NO flicker, no problems because the exposure was constant.

                 

                The project ran 1 time on Public television and the station did not keep a copy of the tape... Point of the story is that you can easily shoot time lapse that doesn't flicker if you simply manage the manual exposure settings on your camera and the camera's internal software does not try and fuss with the images to "improve" them.

                • 5. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
                  Drew_599 Level 1

                  Good for you, 45 years shooting timelapse. I've been doing it for 11 years now and I already know my craft better than most. The flicker is being introduced from ACR and Lightroom using any of the settings from Contrast all the way down to Clarity. Its a problem in the way Adobe processes the shots, not in the way I shoot them. All I want Adobe to do is give us shooters control over how these programs process our images using the most recent image processing. Its not a very tall order for Adobe to do and when I see them at NAB I will talk about nothing else but fixing this huge problem.

                  • 6. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
                    julieh110066

                    Is there anyone that can get a fix going for this?  I am having the exact same issue as well.  Having the ability to turn off the "Image-Adaptive" settings in ACR would be extremely helpful.

                    • 7. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
                      Delriou

                      Rick, you're incorrect in your assertions about timelapse in the digital world.  We all shoot manual mode and even physically lock the aperture by disengaging lenses to avoid flicker.  The flicker that Drew is talking about is not in the source footage, it is introduced the moment you adjust something like the highlight slider in adobe camera raw.

                       

                      With the highlights slider, what appears to happen, is that adobe camera raw applies a different exposure curve to the image based on the what the brightest exposure is in the each frame of the timelapse, rather than applying the same curve to every image in the sequence.  For example, if car headlights suddenly appear in a small portion of the frame, the entire image darkens.  This is on a frame-by-frame basis so frames without those headlights are brighter.  This results in flicker due to small changes in the image.

                       

                      This issue could be fixed by providing a checkbox in ACR that forces each frame to use the same exposure curve as the image in the sequence.

                       

                      What would be great would be if adobe could simply get rid of the RAW import nonsense (in AE) altogether.  RAW import settings should be treated as an effect (using only floating point numbers rather than integers for things like contrast and highlights).  Then RAW photo settings could be keyframed within after effects and have a sense of frame coherence so flicker from things like highlights could avoided. 

                      • 8. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
                        Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Maybe I have never run into that problem because I always convert my time lapse sequences two smaller tiff or PNG image sequences through light room. I do not make DNG Image sequence is because you Mocha pro a lot and it doesn't like them.

                         

                        Have you tried this plug-in from digital anarchy: Flicker Free Plugin

                        I just used it on some 240 frames per second footage that was shot with LEDs that were not in sync with the camera. All the flicker went away. It's kind of a Band-Aid but it worked very well for me on some otherwise unusable footage.

                        • 9. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
                          Delriou Level 1

                          I use LRTimelapse (a tool that let's you work around many of the problems with raw import, like allowing you to keyframe color temperature) and gbdeflicker.  These are bandaid's as you say though.  They also often have great difficulty deflickering images with lot's of localised flickering highlights like car headlights which are common in timelapse sequences.

                           

                          I don't use lightroom very often.  I import RAW's directly into AE and process them in AE.  I use lighroom to build the xmp metadata sometimes.  I would think that lightroom would have the exact same problem though as it is inherent to any footage imported through ACR.

                           

                          This thread is a plea to adobe to fix the inherent problem rather than forcing us to use third party plugins to try to patch over the problem.  I wish Adobe would take this problem seriously.  Much cheaper competitors like LRTimelapse will eventually fix these issues if Adobe doesn't.

                          • 10. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
                            Drew_599 Level 1

                            It doesn't matter what file format you convert it into. If you use the 2012 process for Lightroom or Bridge it will flicker. The flicker occurs in sequences that have low light like around sunset or on a cloudy day and you use anyone of the following sliders (contrast, highlights, shadows, clarity). If a car or some headlights happen to get into the frame just a bit ACR "adaptively" changes only that one frame, which causes the flicker. So it has nothing to do with file format or any of that. Its all about ACR and how Adobe is processing the images.

                            • 11. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
                              Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                              Hi Drew,

                              Adobe, are you guys going to even look into this because this is a huge problem.

                               

                              Have you filed a bug yet?

                               

                              Would be nice if you guys just popped your head in here and said something like, "tough **** deal with it" instead of just ignoring it.

                               

                              Our team does participate in these forums, however, our bandwidth is extremely limited so there's no way we can get to every single post that leads with, "Hey Adobe, what about my issue?" I wish we did!

                               

                              I know it looks like we don't care when a response is not given to every post, but I assure you, we do care. We really rely on bug reports and feature requests to communicate what our customers are needing to be fixed or improved.

                               

                              So, file your bug, get others to fill out similar bug reports and you've really done all you can in getting a feature some attention.

                               

                              I can't reiterate this enough, its a huge problem. Give us control to turn this image-adaptive thing off without having to roll back to the 2010 process.

                               

                              Please include that info in the bug report. Sorry I can't simply pass on this info as a substitute for a bug report. A bug that is filed with us in writing and that requires action simply does not have the same impact as a passing hallway conversation.

                               

                              Thanks,
                              Kevin

                              • 12. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
                                Drew_599 Level 1

                                Thanks for the reply Kevin. I'll file a bug report but its not a bug in ACR / Lightroom, its the way it has been designed to work. The problem with "Image-Adaptive" for timelapse work is that the 2012 process tries to treat every frame different based on the content. So for timelapse this can be a huge problem where overall consistency in the look of a shot is huge. All I'm asking for is a way to keep the look I get in ACR / Lightroom and have that look constant. The other thing some of us timelapse shooters do is ramp the exposure in a program called LRTimelapse. This works by created keyframes at the beginning and end along with at points of exposure changes that were done in the camera across the length of the clip. Where I'm going with this is that we can't just have one XMP for a sequence because that data can be changing from beginning to the end of the clip. AE needs to be able to see all this info in rendering each frame. I'm just writing this down so there is some kind of public record of it for others looking for a solution to this problem.

                                 

                                I'll file a bug report and a feature request for this issue but as I said before it needs to be addressed.

                                • 13. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
                                  Delriou Level 1

                                  Hi Kevin,

                                   

                                  I've filed a feature request.  I think that as more and more camera systems start to use camera RAW this is going to be a growing problem.  For most RAW footage, for example RED footage, it IS possible to key frame many RAW import settings and it is not image-adaptive.  The way AE is designed now it feels like RAW image sequences are an after thought and treated the same as a single image imported into photoshop.  Simply because our source video is comprised of RAW frames in individual files doesn't mean that it shouldn't be treated as a single key-frameable frame-coherent entity.

                                  • 14. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
                                    Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                    Hi Drew,

                                    In looking at this issue a little more closely and inspecting our database of feature requests, we do have this one logged. It has been deferred, however, for a future version. If you wish to have this feature worked on be sure to try and get others to file this feature request. The more requests we get for any single feature, the more it is considered for a future version of After Effects.

                                     

                                    Thanks,
                                    Kevin

                                    • 15. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
                                      Drew_599 Level 1

                                      The problem is that its a bigger problem than just After Effects. Its a problem with ACR, which is being used by a lot of Adobe applications. I filed a bug report but I feel like it will be filed away as something else when it isn't. Adobe needs to look at this as a bug / feature request for ACR, not just After Effects.

                                      • 16. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
                                        iawood

                                        Is there any update to this issue. The same problem exists for Cinema DNG sequences as shot on cameras by Blackmagic, DJI, etc. It's a serious issue. One would expect to be able to apply a grade consistently across multiple DNG files. Adaptive causes exactly what is described. If something bright should enter a relatively dark shot, the applied settings change and introduce flicker.

                                        • 17. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
                                          blacktal Level 1

                                          I completely agree, big problem.. Now having trouble with my inspire 2 cinema DNG sequences.

                                          • 18. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
                                            Mike_Abbott Level 4

                                            Keep filling in the form... I wish

                                            it's the only way for this to get more attention.

                                            • 19. Re: Image-Adaptive Adjustments In ACR Causing Flicker In Timelapse Sequences
                                              iawood Level 1

                                              Does anyone have any updates or is Adobe still ignoring this? I mean it can't be that hard to fix. CinemaDNG is an Adobe format!?!?! It would make sense that CinemaDNG is supported on Adobe products without introducing flicker.