12 Replies Latest reply on Jul 14, 2015 9:47 PM by BartonGarrett256 Branched from an earlier discussion.

    ray-traced 3D renderer with GTX 970

    BartonGarrett256 Level 2

      I have a similar problem.  I built a system as suggested by the Hardware Forum guys, I'm principally a video editor although I work in Ps a lot also.  I need to extrude and then automate a logo move in 3D. I tried to switch from Classic to Ray Traced and I get a 5070 error.  I looked around the forums and it sounds like I'm out of luck. 

       

      My only feasible work around seems to be to redo the logo PSD file in Illustrator and then do the extrusion and 3D move automation in Maxon 4D Lite.  That means I need to learn two new programs, ugh. Programs I will forget because I don't use them. 

       

      Specs:

      Windows 7 premium

      i7 5960 8 core chipset

      X99 motherboard

      64 GB RAM

      NVIDIA graphics cards:

           K2200 Quadro

           GTX 970

      SSD C drive

      SSD D drive

      8 total 7200rpm  RAIDed  HDs

       

      My problem seems to be the graphics cards, recommended, no prescribed, in the Hardware Forum are "not approved".  Other than the usual problems Pr 2015 is working fine, it seems not to care if the cards are approved, I can override the "not approved" block, but Ae says no.

      Any suggestions would be appreciated.

        • 1. Re: ray-traced 3D renderer with GTX 970
          Todd_Kopriva Level 8

          > I can override the "not approved" block, but Ae says no.

          This is not a matter of "approved" or not. Your GPU uses an entirely different architecture than the one that the ray-traced 3D renderer was created for. Nvidia changed the architecture of the Maxwell GPUs in such a way that the ray-traced 3D renderer can't work on them without a large amount of new engineering work.

          • 2. Re: ray-traced 3D renderer with GTX 970
            BartonGarrett256 Level 2

            Thanks for the prompt response. 

             

            Pr doesn't seem to care.

             

            I wish someone in the hardware forum would have told me Ae would be hobbled without "approved" video cards.  I was told there was no downside when I asked. I may have made the same decision, as the K4000 card is pricey, but it would have been nice to know up front. I may be able to do it in Titler Pro 4.

             

            Using Maxon is klugey to me; one of the reasons I use Adobe is the ever fleeting promise of 'one ring rules them all'. Those relationships can vanish in 30 frames or less, as past events illustrate, and their software is pricy and overkill for me.

            • 3. Re: ray-traced 3D renderer with GTX 970
              Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Cinema 4D comes for free with After Effects, so it's not pricey at all! There are some useful resources in that link to get you up to speed on using C4D in AE. Here are some more: Getting Started with Cinema 4D Lite and Cineware

               

              The ray-traced renderer is considered obsolete since AE CC was released two years ago, but the folks in the hardware forum should probably have considered the ray-traced renderer requirements if you asked about it. I mean, the GPU requirement is mentioned right on the systems requirement page for After Effects.

               

              If you don't want to learn C4D (a basic logo extrusion isn't too complicated - plus it might be a useful skill to have), you can always use the old methods of 3d in AE.

              • 4. Re: ray-traced 3D renderer with GTX 970
                BartonGarrett256 Level 2

                Thanks.   It's pricey if at some point in the future Adobe and Maxon part ways, and that is always a possibility. I tried to find pricing, and everything I saw had at least one comma in it.   I've seen it happen many, many times in the software business- 'included' can go away in a second.   Sony acquires them, who knows...I don't want to have to research and track that.  Inside baseball...  That's the issue for me. I'm reluctant to buy plug ins for the same reason- I don't think Adobe limits who can offer them and the switching cost is high for me if they go belly up.

                 

                I didn't know about the ray trace requirements when I asked, if I had those predictive abilities I would be day trading, not editing.  I am sure there are other things I don't know about either.  I simply said is it okay to use a non approved card?  They said absolutely, there is no downside.

                 

                I watched a few Lynda.com tutorials on C4D, it is not how complicated it is, but that I would have also have to use Illustrator on the front end, and I don't think there is that much more in either program I would use.   As nice as it is to master yet another piece of software I would prefer to use what I have now. To me software is more like girlfriends than cocaine- too much is not enough- no longer has that much attraction to me. 

                 

                I looked at the "old methods" tutorials, thanks for that.  In this case I want to extrude and move.  I think I can do it in New Blue titler pro.  At the end of the day I'm trying to make a living doing this, spending a few days learning software has to have a quantifiable reward for me.  I'm not a graphic designer.

                 

                Ae seems very limited without real 3D, and Maxon is at best, to me, a band-aid. But I am not an (yet at least) expert.

                Thanks again for the suggestions!

                • 5. Re: ray-traced 3D renderer with GTX 970
                  Chris Hocking Adobe Community Professional

                  Just to clarify - is everything working OK (albeit slower) when you render using only the CPU? If so, I would suggest just rendering everything on the CPU for now, rather than learning another piece of software.

                   

                  Unfortunately neither the K2200 or the GTX 970 are on the AE system requirements list, which is annoying: https://helpx.adobe.com/after-effects/system-requirements.html

                   

                  However, Premiere will still make use of those two expensive cards - so I don't think it was a bad investment on your part. It's just annoying that AE can't make use of the cards!

                   

                  3rd party software like Element 3D will also make use of OpenCL on your primary GPU - which could be handy for you in the future. Unfortunately Element 3D currently doesn't make use of multiple GPUs though.

                  • 6. Re: ray-traced 3D renderer with GTX 970
                    BartonGarrett256 Level 2

                    Thanks Chris.  Unfortunately Ae does not give me the option of CPU, as Todd noted.  Pr lets me proceed with GPU using "unapproved" cards.  In Ae I can't ray trace render, no work arounds, game over, period, full stop...so I guess I can't do any of the 3D stuff, I am still trying to figure all of it out- like why extrusion only works with ray trace rendering.  I don't fully understand what the deal is.  The videos I have don't mention what is going on, they just casually say switch to ray trace rendering, like everyone does it.  You know, if you don't have bread just eat cake? I remember hearing that somewhere, was it France? I need to do more research.

                     

                    It is a little bit more than annoying, as the K2200 card was launched with a press release touting their teamwork and testing with Adobe.

                     

                    I was unhappy with Pr response times in my i7 4 core/32GB RAM/K2200 system so I spent $5k building a new system that I thought would do everything, and quickly. The hardware forum guys said don't even think of buying the K4000, the 970 kicks it's butt for less than half the price. 

                     

                    To quote that sage Gomer Pyle, "Surprise, Surprise, Surprise".

                    • 7. Re: ray-traced 3D renderer with GTX 970
                      BartonGarrett256 Level 2

                      I am a bit confused, is your help documentation is giving bad advice-

                      After Effects Help | GPU (CUDA, OpenGL) features

                       

                      He says, in the video, that any CUDA card will work in terms of ray tracing, and we can default to the CPU if we need to because we have a brand X card.  Maybe any CUDA card built before 201x? I've got two of them and neither work. Both nearly new.   I'm admittedly a rank, wet behind the ears novice in Ae, but what he says does not seem to apply to the product I'm using, CC 2015.  In fact it's misleading?

                       

                      Can someone ask Mr. Burns for more resources to update the videos, or lose 'em.  

                      • 8. Re: ray-traced 3D renderer with GTX 970
                        Chris Hocking Adobe Community Professional

                        I don't believe that's correct. You should be able to select 'CPU' within the 'Ray-tracing' option within the 'Preferences > Previews > GPU Information' window. Please share a screenshot if you're not seeing this option.

                         

                        Ray-tracing can happen on CPU or a CUDA capable card. You can actually use your K2200 card within AE if you check the 'Enable untested, unsupported GPU for CUDA acceleration of ray-traced 3D renderer' - it's just not technically supported, so you may run into issues. A lot of people are using unsupported cards without issue though.

                        • 9. Re: ray-traced 3D renderer with GTX 970
                          Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Barton wrote:

                           

                          He says, in the video, that any CUDA card will work in terms of ray tracing, and we can default to the CPU if we need to because we have a brand X card.  Maybe any CUDA card built before 201x?

                          You used to be able to use any CUDA card, but (as Todd said) NVIDIA changed the Optix library that the ray-traced renderer relied on and the ray-traced renderer cannot work on the new class of cards.

                          Todd_Kopriva, the help document (and videos contained within) could certainly use some updating to reflect this.

                          • 10. Re: ray-traced 3D renderer with GTX 970
                            Chris Hocking Adobe Community Professional

                            Just to clarify though, in regards to the original post - the user can just use CPU rendering for what he wants to do, correct?

                            • 11. Re: ray-traced 3D renderer with GTX 970
                              Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Yes.

                               

                              But, as noted, it's significantly slower. It'd be better to use Cinema 4D at that point or, if they want really fast render times, a third-party plugin like Element/3d Invigorator/ShapeShifter/etc. In one job, they'd make back the money they spent on the plugin in time saved.

                              • 12. Re: ray-traced 3D renderer with GTX 970
                                BartonGarrett256 Level 2

                                Thanks very much for the suggestions, sorry for the delay replying, I was on deadline today. 

                                 

                                Again I am still learning the program, but one way into the GPU settings, maybe through previews? did not give me an opt out option, that path gave me the 5070 error.  The other path inChris suggested  did let me disable the cards, but after doing that whatever ram preview was in CC 2014 is now- after disabling- is so horribly slow that I wouldn't ever consider trying to do real work with it. And I'm using an 8 core i7 5960 CPU on an x-99 motherboard.

                                 

                                Illustrator seems simple to learn and close to Ps, so I will try that route, using C4D. For now. I watched the Lynda.com tutorial on C4D, the instructor walked through what seemed like a War and Peace long list of features checking off in or out for the lite version, it was five or six pages, I just did the math, to simply understand what they were seemed like it would take weeks, to master them who knows. I assume I won't need to learn all that to do simple extrusion.  I looked at the Elements plug ins Szalam mentioned too, they  seem simple too, but will try free for now.

                                 

                                My view is both plug ins and linked programs are less than desirable.  They cause problems at upgrades, never link as well as they should, it's two companies to track, they have to get along and share development  details and road maps, and  have diverging goals, just for starters.   I never saw that work to my satisfaction when I was a product manager.